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Should NATO create a no-fly zone over Ukraine?

Should NATO create a no-fly zone over Ukraine?

  • NATO should create a "humanitarian" no fly zone over certain sensitive areas only

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    39
The Russians have no interest in conquering Switzerland or Spain or France, and none of those countries is going to commit their militaries to a long, drawn out bloodbath of a campaign.....because that’s what the suggestion would entail.

The last time Spaniards, Frenchmen, Austrians and Germans marched into Russia it ended very badly for them.
Sounds like you have it all figured out. Once Putin conquers Ukraine.. he'll just stop. No problem. Good for you!
 
Putin isn't going to just withdraw his aircraft from Ukraine because America randomly ordered them out. That's not how any of this works.

And when Putin responds by, say, bombing anti-aircraft sites inside NATO countries or attacking the Turkish navy, with a similar promise that *he* does not intend to escalate further but this is where he is drawing the line? What then?

And when hundreds of millions of people die in the world war you so desperately you want, and you are dying a slow death from radiation poisoning from the mushroom cloud that hit your city, you can take comfort in your last thoughts that you blamed the right person.
Neville Chamberlain didn't prevent the Second World War, what makes you think his tactics would prevent the Third? I don't want war, in fact I think the best way of preventing war is to show strength and to draw clean lines with little ambiguity.

Why should we steer off in the game of chicken when NATO is clearly stronger than Russia? Putin has more to lose than we do, but if we don't have the fortitude and character to stand up to him, then all of our power is for nothing.
 
Sounds like you have it all figured out. Once Putin conquers Ukraine.. he'll just stop. No problem. Good for you!
So you want to push Russia all the way back to moscow....like we did for Germany?
 
So, once you think Putin gets Ukraine he's going to stop? You sound like former Prime Minister Chamberlain.
He would be stupid to set one boot into a NATO country.

Ukraine isn’t a NATO member. The world is supporting them with arms and sanctions, but they are not a part of NATO.

If Putin goes into a NATO nation, the entire game changes and I’m sure he knows that.
 
Sounds like you have it all figured out. Once Putin conquers Ukraine.. he'll just stop. No problem. Good for you!

America has no obligation to throw our military into a meat grinder over what you fantasize might happen at some point down the road.
 
I said, "yes" only because there aren't enough choices. The US should negotiate such a thing with all Western nations. and if they agree, then sure - no fly zone, defended by NATO. Yes, it would be like WW3, but it would be a short one. Putin has very few friends.
A short nuclear war with Russia 🇷🇺 vs the West would take how many 100's of millions?

Your post is shockingly ignorant. Its truly 3 clown 🤡 🤡 🤡 shoes stupid.
 
He would be stupid to set one boot into a NATO country.

Ukraine isn’t a NATO member. The world is supporting them with arms and sanctions, but they are not a part of NATO.

If Putin goes into a NATO nation, the entire game changes and I’m sure he knows that.
Ukraine is being defended by several NATO nations. Just because Ukraine lacks the label does not mean they are not one of us.
 
Neville Chamberlain didn't prevent the Second World War, what makes you think his tactics would prevent the Third? I don't want war, in fact I think the best way of preventing war is to show strength and to draw clean lines with little ambiguity.

Why should we steer off in the game of chicken when NATO is clearly stronger than Russia? Putin has more to lose than we do, but if we don't have the fortitude and character to stand up to him, then all of our power is for nothing.
So you also want US to push all the way to moscow?
 
Ah.. so you think Putin will stop at the Atlantic Ocean and leave North America alone? Cool.

There’s zero evidence Putin has any interest in going “all the way to the Atlantic” much less invade America....nor is Russia capable of carrying out an invasion of the US. Stop fearmongering.
 
A short nuclear war with Russia 🇷🇺 vs the West would take how many 100's of millions?

Your post is shockingly ignorant. Its truly 3 clown 🤡 🤡 🤡 shoes stupid.
I think it's ignorant of you and several others to think even Putin would risk certain mutual destruction by launching nukes, but you do you, my friend.
 
Then that's on them. You can't cower every time Putin waves his fist or it will only embolden him. You have to draw a clear line, and if it ends in a game of chicken, don't be the one who veers off.

We need bold leadership, not fearful paralysis.

The time to play that (don’t you dare!) card was before Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014 not after they sent in 200K military personnel.
 
Ukraine is being defended by several NATO nations. Just because Ukraine lacks the label does not mean they are not one of us.
That's exactly what it means
 
Then that's on them. You can't cower every time Putin waves his fist or it will only embolden him.
We are providing a huge amount of support for Ukraine and we have destroyed the Russian economy. We aren't "cowering every time Putin waves his fist." We have done a lot, and it has largely worked. Putin will not win this war. There is no need to escalate; just keep doing what we are already doing.
You have to draw a clear line, and if it ends in a game of chicken, don't be the one who veers off.
The clear line is an attack on a NATO country. That is the whole point of NATO.
We need bold leadership, not fearful paralysis.
The Ukrainian foreign legion is recruiting and they would be thrilled to have you.
 
There’s zero evidence Putin has any interest in going “all the way to the Atlantic” much less invade America....nor is Russia capable of carrying out an invasion of the US. Stop fearmongering.
Great I'll stop worrying. Putin will stop when he levels Ukraine and all with be fine and dandy. Thank you so much, sir for setting me straight. Oh, yes, oh, thank you!!!
 
Nuclear war would be horrific, I completely agree. Estimates I have seen put NATO losses in an all-out nuclear war with Russia at about 10 million people, with about a third of those being in the United States. A high price indeed.
Your estimates are far too low. If London (UK) was hit, then that would meet your estimate with just one 5-megaton warhead strike. More reasonable estimates would be in the mid hundreds of millions if the war was contained to just the Russian Federation and Belarus on one side and NATO on the other. If it widened then over a billion would die.
On the other hand, we can't make decisions based on fear and trepidation. The full-scale war that would follow a nuclear exchange would see Russia occupied and it would cease to exist as a nation. They know they cannot defeat NATO in a war and would never risk it.
Fear is the beginning of wisdom. NATO does not have enough forces to occupy the Russian Federation and Belarus; not by a long shot. Also Russia has over 6000 nuclear weapons in its possession, 4500 of which are relatively modern. Of that latter stock about 1500 are weapons with yields well over a megaton and are thus city busters. Think of how horrific a nuclear scorched Earth policy that could deliver.
We have to stand up for what is right and good, and we have to respond to Ukraine's call for help now in their hour of need. It's the right thing to do, both pragmatically and morally.
Emotion and calls to emotion usually end very badly in times of war or near-war.
We need to put a stop to the bombings of maternity wards and theaters with "children" written on the sidewalk. It's times like these when your character is tested, and what does it say about the character of NATO if we do nothing?
Why? NATO is at least nominally a defensive alliance to protect its member-states. Ukraine is not a member-state of NATO.

No-fly Zones are a risk too far for NATO.

Be well and stay alive.
Evilroddy.
 
Ah.. so you think Putin will stop at the Atlantic Ocean and leave North America alone? Cool.

If Putin wanted to attack North America, he wouldn't go toward the Atlantic Ocean...................
 
You want to push to moscow?
No, I want us to shoot down any plane that tries to murder innocent people in Ukraine. That's what this thread is about, by the way.
 
Great I'll stop worrying. Putin will stop when he levels Ukraine and all with be fine and dandy. Thank you so much, sir for setting me straight. Oh, yes, oh, thank you!!!

Ukraine would look a lot worse if it was glowing in the dark.
 
Neville Chamberlain didn't prevent the Second World War, what makes you think his tactics would prevent the Third? I don't want war, in fact I think the best way of preventing war is to show strength and to draw clean lines with little ambiguity.

Why should we steer off in the game of chicken when NATO is clearly stronger than Russia? Putin has more to lose than we do, but if we don't have the fortitude and character to stand up to him, then all of our power is for nothing.
Because this isn’t our war.

Our men and women don’t have to die in this war.

Our civilians don’t have to die in a nuclear war because of this invasion.

We are NOT the world’s babysitter and we have NO obligation to act as the world’s police either.

The United States should stand by our alliances fully and completely - but let’s stop having our soldiers die and let’s NOT risk nuclear war for a country we aren’t in any obligation to.

Sanctions, supply them, etc is already happening.

Why do you want Americans to die for this?
 
Character is about doing difficult things at difficult moments. Character isn't defined when things are convenient or easy.

This is the hand we were dealt. It is what it is. Ukraine needs our help now. We either stand up and answer the call, or we cower away. Either choice says a lot about who we are.
More aspirational hooey.
Your posts really do need to grow up.
 
No, I want us to shoot down any plane that tries to murder innocent people in Ukraine. That's what this thread is about, by the way.
What? What happened to comparisons to nazi Germany?????


You want to leave the madman putin in power??????


Should we have stopped at the german border?????
 
No, I want us to shoot down any plane that tries to murder innocent people in Ukraine. That's what this thread is about, by the way.

And what do you think Putin would do if we started shooting down their planes?
 
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