Should narcotic pain killers be sold without a prescription?

[Goshin]

Seems this ongoing conversation about legalizing drugs rarely touches on drugs that are legal but requiring a prescription. For many of the same arguments in favor of legalizing "street" drugs, do you think narcotic pain killers should be available "over the counter"? Personally, I don't think so, but then, I oppose legalizing drugs.

You should have the right to manage your own pain as you see fit, so yes.



If some choose to abuse this in order to get high, that's their problem.

 

[chromium]

According to the Justice Bureau:



From another page on the same site:


1,079,000 felons convicted
15% of which received felony convictions for simple possession
= 161,850

That's ONE YEAR worth of convictions for possession. And you're telling me that I'm just playing on emotions while ignoring reality? Decriminalization would prevent all those people from going to prison. People should not be getting felony convictions for simply possessing a drug.

Now let's talk about the drug trafficking convictions. 96% of them plea bargain out (which is standard in the system now). We don't know for sure how many of those genuinely had high quantities on them because their cases never went to court. Most people plea bargain when they can't afford a lawyer and the risk of going to trial means a far steeper sentence than just taking the deal.

Drug reform is obviously much needed in America. We should not be sending 1/3 of a million people per year to prison over drugs.

it's really something only communists should be proud of, but they actually have nothing on america

 

[chromium]

I totally agree with this (I do believe marijuana should be legal). I don't think we should prosecute people for drug use so I am for decriminalizing that aspect of it, but legalization is a terrible idea. That average American these days cannot be trusted to even maintain a healthy diet. For crying out loud, if most people cannot be trusted with fast food and little debbies, its pretty ridiculous to think they could be trusted with over the counter opiates and amphetamines.

so let's make fast food illegal, hell let's make everything except organic food illegal and mandate an hour of exercise every day. There is no end to this line of thinking

 

[Peter King]

so let's make fast food illegal, hell let's make everything except organic food illegal and mandate an hour of exercise every day. There is no end to this line of thinking

Except nobody proposed banning fast food, that is down to people who over indulge in those kinds of foods, but not allowing narcotic type painkillers (and I happen to use them) is not the same thing as you infer in this post. Protecting the public from addiction and over the counter hard drugs is something governments are supposed to do IMHO.

 

[RetiredUSN]

Too many drugged up adults running around already.

Prozac for this.

Paxil for that.

Zoloft for her.

Celexa for him.

 

[chromium]

Just 6.0% of people are in state prisons for possession

Looking at federal prisons



Answers to Frequently Asked Questions about Marijuana | The White House

federal prisons are only a small fraction (1/17) compared to state so that doesn't mean much, and most in federal prison aren't there for drug crimes at all

 

[chromium]

Except nobody proposed banning fast food, that is down to people who over indulge in those kinds of foods, but not allowing narcotic type painkillers (and I happen to use them) is not the same thing as you infer in this post. Protecting the public from addiction and over the counter hard drugs is something governments are supposed to do IMHO.

protecting them from stupid decisions is not the role of government, and "protecting" them by throwing them in prison and ruining their future prospect of employment or housing when/if they get out is a paradox indeed

 

[chromium]

Too many drugged up adults running around already.

Prozac for this.

Paxil for that.

Zoloft for her.

Celexa for him.

so make those illegal too

i've yet to see any prohibitionists show a capacity for consistency. Hell even if they just added a stipulation that it should be illegal only to *sell* them that would make more sense

 

[Painter]

The hard part about this is that for myself I would say "absolutely yes".
I am getting older and if I only have 3 different pains going on, that is typically a good day.
I know what I need and I know when or if I need it.
I am responsible and know what to take if I am driving / working, and what to take at night.

But when I consider society, I envision addicted morons dropping like flies all around me. (If these things were over the counter and legal.)
Therefore, even at my own inconvenience, I would have to vote "No", in order to preserve society and protect my fellow morons.

 

[Northern Light]

Any restriction placed on a drug transfers power to the black market, including prescriptions.

The lion's share of RX narcotics on the street come from patients who have prescriptions, or from pharmacy robberies. Very little comes direct from drug manufacturers.

By making an RX narcotic over the counter, you remove selling power from the black market, and have better control over quantities sold (to reduce overdoses, etc). It also provides the opportunity for buyers to receive additional education, advice about the drug, and help with addiction if they need it.

From a harm reduction perspective, this is highly desirable, since you can't stop drug use but you can reduce drug death. Considering that more people die from prescription drugs every year than all other illegal drugs combined (including alcohol), this needs serious attention.

What people need to realize is that addiction is a disease, and you won't stop addiction by restricting drug access. As long as drug manufacturers are making a drug, addicts will obtain it. The drug laws must start shifting toward harm reduction and away from punishment because the situation is getting worse every year.

 

[_Sal]

Because alcohol is only physically addictive in rare cases and in extremely high amounts consumed over time.

no you are incorrect that alcohol is only physically addictive in rare cases....the stats say otherwise.

Opiates are physically addictive in much smaller amounts and in a fairly short time.

this I agree with

I agree with you that different people have different pain tolerances. For example I can tell you that as a long time runner, endurance athletes tend to have very high pain tolerances.

absolutely, my guy marathons, he can psych himself past the pain

However, physicians still way overprescribe narcotic pain killers.

oh yes, but perhaps because people lie

The main driver of our country's opiate epidemic is physicians over prescribing them

there is a reason for this though I am not clear on why...I would say it is because many people who are in extreme pain can not get enough to relieve the pain and that is a terrible thing

even when people are at the end of their life sometimes not enough pain meds are given...they end up in excruciating pain...that should NEVER happen

Making them over the counter would only make it exponentially worse. After all, why take an Aleve when you could take a Percocet.

I disagree. I was given two narcotics for a kidney stone...why would I take oxy when I could tolerate the pain on what they had given me before they sent me home...I could cope without the use of a narcotic...I filled both scripts in case I could not tolerate the pain but I never took one

I think people can handle it because I know I can

 

[Fenton]

Any restriction placed on a drug transfers power to the black market, including prescriptions.

The lion's share of RX narcotics on the street come from patients who have prescriptions, or from pharmacy robberies. Very little comes direct from drug manufacturers.

By making an RX narcotic over the counter, you remove selling power from the black market, and have better control over quantities sold (to reduce overdoses, etc). It also provides the opportunity for buyers to receive additional education, advice about the drug, and help with addiction if they need it.

From a harm reduction perspective, this is highly desirable, since you can't stop drug use but you can reduce drug death. Considering that more people die from prescription drugs every year than all other illegal drugs combined (including alcohol), this needs serious attention.

What people need to realize is that addiction is a disease, and you won't stop addiction by restricting drug access. As long as drug manufacturers are making a drug, addicts will obtain it. The drug laws must start shifting toward harm reduction and away from punishment because the situation is getting worse every year.

Addiction is not a disease, its a choice

 

[TheGoverness]

Addiction is not a disease, its a choice

Addiction is a disease.

 

[Northern Light]

Addiction is not a disease, its a choice

You're welcome to your opinion, even if it's wrong.

 

[Neomalthusian]

Too many drugged up adults running around already.

Prozac for this.

Paxil for that.

Zoloft for her.

Celexa for him.

so make those illegal too

i've yet to see any prohibitionists show a capacity for consistency. Hell even if they just added a stipulation that it should be illegal only to *sell* them that would make more sense

Those are antidepressants and they don't "drug anyone up." They aren't habit forming, no one abuses them or gets a high from them, they aren't mind-altering in any immediate sense, they aren't sedating or functionally impairing.

There are a million prescription drugs out there that aren't addictive, and the debate around those is how to pay for them. Many are too expensive and drug companies continue to get rather rich.

Then there are those handful of drugs that are both prescription as well as addictive, and the debate around those is much more complex because there is a potential to create a health problem by treating it. Iatrogenesis, basically. t has to do with whether resolving pain, anxiety or insomnia (the most regularly abused prescription medicines) while feeding an addiction problem is actually doing the patient direct harm. In other words, is a provider's primary responsibility overall well-being, or symptom relief and comfort-care?

 

[ALiberalModerate]

no you are incorrect that alcohol is only physically addictive in rare cases....the stats say otherwise.
this I agree with

absolutely, my guy marathons, he can psych himself past the pain
oh yes, but perhaps because people lie

there is a reason for this though I am not clear on why...I would say it is because many people who are in extreme pain can not get enough to relieve the pain and that is a terrible thing

even when people are at the end of their life sometimes not enough pain meds are given...they end up in excruciating pain...that should NEVER happen

I disagree. I was given two narcotics for a kidney stone...why would I take oxy when I could tolerate the pain on what they had given me before they sent me home...I could cope without the use of a narcotic...I filled both scripts in case I could not tolerate the pain but I never took one

I think people can handle it because I know I can

Some people don't take narcotic pain meds when prescribed, I don't myself. I just fill the script and leave it. However, most do. As to alcohol being physically addictive. Its often psychologically addictive, but it is not often physically addictive. Its rare for an alcoholic to end up in convulsions when they quite drinking (I have only seen it happen in drunks that drank a liter or more of hard liquor a day for years on end), but very common with someone strung out opiates. The only truly physically addictive drugs are narcotics, sedatives / tranquilizers, and barbiturates. Even crack is only psychologically addictive.

If you want to see opiate abuse double or triple, sell it over the counter.

 

[_Sal]

Some people don't take narcotic pain meds when prescribed, I don't myself. I just fill the script and leave it. However, most do. As to alcohol being physically addictive. Its often psychologically addictive, but it is not often physically addictive. Its rare for an alcoholic to end up in convulsions when they quite drinking (I have only seen it happen in drunks that drank a liter or more of hard liquor a day for years on end), but very common with someone strung out opiates. The only truly physically addictive drugs are narcotics, sedatives / tranquilizers, and barbiturates. Even crack is only psychologically addictive.

If you want to see opiate abuse double or triple, sell it over the counter.

can you please show me some stats for alcohol not being physically addictive...I worked at a liquor control board for years...first thing in the morning they come in shaking like a leaf in a storm...later in the day when they level out...no more shakes

I have had extensive interaction with individuals addicted to various substances...I have never heard nor experienced your claim...

thanks

 

[Fearandloathing]

Some people don't take narcotic pain meds when prescribed, I don't myself. I just fill the script and leave it. However, most do. As to alcohol being physically addictive. Its often psychologically addictive, but it is not often physically addictive. Its rare for an alcoholic to end up in convulsions when they quite drinking (I have only seen it happen in drunks that drank a liter or more of hard liquor a day for years on end), but very common with someone strung out opiates. The only truly physically addictive drugs are narcotics, sedatives / tranquilizers, and barbiturates. Even crack is only psychologically addictive.

If you want to see opiate abuse double or triple, sell it over the counter.

That's fantasy.

I am sorry but that it the most ignorant statement I have seen yet on the issue of addictions. If it isn't addictive physically then explain withdrawal symptoms. Explain why we have de-tox facilities. Can it be that there are psychological as well as physical aspects together?

My God, all you need to do is attend an AA meeting . Who, by the way say it is none of the above, but rather a spiritual issue. And please don't even try to argue this, AA has an estimated 125 million members world wide, they can't all be wrong. And since I experienced withdrawal first hand 25 years ago, don't even go there.

 

[Peter King]

protecting them from stupid decisions is not the role of government, and "protecting" them by throwing them in prison and ruining their future prospect of employment or housing when/if they get out is a paradox indeed

Well, deciding what drugs are sold over the counter and which are not is exactly the role of the government because sadly with medication as dangerous and addictive as narcotic based pain killers, you cannot allow them to be sold over the counter.

 

[Fearandloathing]

can you please show me some stats for alcohol not being physically addictive...I worked at a liquor control board for years...first thing in the morning they come in shaking like a leaf in a storm...later in the day when they level out...no more shakes

I have had extensive interaction with individuals addicted to various substances...I have never heard nor experienced your claim...

thanks

How's this

These guys place it right behind cocaine:

About 18 million Americans have an alcohol use disorder.[61] This legal substance creeps into the lives of many, often in adolescence and during the college years, aiding in an increased risk for the development of alcohol dependency.[62] Having a parent who is addicted to alcohol also predisposes you to a fourfold increased risk of the same fate.[63]

These guys place it sixth;

The Top 10 Most Addictive Drugs: An Introduction - Drug Addiction Treatment

And this research says alcohol is the sixth hardest drug to kick..

https://www.thefix.com/content/10-hardest-addictive-drugs-to-kick7055

Take your pick, booze is always in the top ten.

 

[_Sal]

How's this

These guys place it right behind cocaine:



These guys place it sixth;

The Top 10 Most Addictive Drugs: An Introduction - Drug Addiction Treatment

And this research says alcohol is the sixth hardest drug to kick..

https://www.thefix.com/content/10-hardest-addictive-drugs-to-kick7055

Take your pick, booze is always in the top ten.

always and DT's: Alcohol withdrawal symptoms can begin as early as two hours after the last drink, persist for weeks, and range from mild anxiety and shakiness to severe complications, such as seizures and delirium tremens (also called DTs).

 

[ALiberalModerate]

That's fantasy.

I am sorry but that it the most ignorant statement I have seen yet on the issue of addictions. If it isn't addictive physically then explain withdrawal symptoms. Explain why we have de-tox facilities. Can it be that there are psychological as well as physical aspects together?

My God, all you need to do is attend an AA meeting . Who, by the way say it is none of the above, but rather a spiritual issue. And please don't even try to argue this, AA has an estimated 125 million members world wide, they can't all be wrong. And since I experienced withdrawal first hand 25 years ago, don't even go there.

I never said alcohol can't be physically addictive. I am merely pointing out the fact that most people that have a drinking problem don't go through the DTs when they quit. Its not like a narcotic where everyone that has a opiate addiction goes through severe and in often life threatening withdrawals. And yes I know that some people do with alcohol as well, but its not everyone like it is with narcotics.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

can you please show me some stats for alcohol not being physically addictive...I worked at a liquor control board for years...first thing in the morning they come in shaking like a leaf in a storm...later in the day when they level out...no more shakes

I have had extensive interaction with individuals addicted to various substances...I have never heard nor experienced your claim...

thanks

Yes, the old drunks are obviously physically addicted to alcohol, but they are not representative of the majority of people with a drinking problem. I bartended years ago, for every drunk coming in with the shakes, there was 10 other people that showed up regularly and obviously had a drinking problem and alcohol obviously controlled their lives, but would not have ended up with convulsions and hallucinations had they quit like the guys that showed up right when you opened and drank a liter or more day or hard liquor.

Spin it how you want, but in terms of a physical addiction, nothing compares with narcotics. Coming off a narcotic addiction can easily be life threatening. Convulsions are common. I had a friend that was a heroine addict (he overdosed years ago) and have known God knows how many drunks and meth addicts. I can tell you that when you kick the habit with a narcotic, they call it kicking the habit because you are in the floor convulsing and kicking. Hell even seizures. Even the worst meth addicts don't go through that (though they will make you think they will due to how strong their brain craves it).

I just can't imagine why on earth anyone would think we should take the most addictive and dangerous drugs on earth and make them over the counter accessible to anyone. We would be a nation of junkies in no time.

 

[DiAnna]

Seems this ongoing conversation about legalizing drugs rarely touches on drugs that are legal but requiring a prescription. For many of the same arguments in favor of legalizing "street" drugs, do you think narcotic pain killers should be available "over the counter"? Personally, I don't think so, but then, I oppose legalizing drugs.

I'm all for "legalizing" street drugs. Decriminalize them, tax them, regulate them, and allow them to be purchased with a prescription. Use the tax revenue to fund public rehabilitation centers. That would put a huge dent in the drug cartels' revenue source.

I'm also against allowing addictive narcotic pain medications, legal or illegal, to be available without a prescription, and oversight by a qualified physician. So I voted No.

 

[TurtleDude]

Not sure.
I've witnessed a **** ton of people become of addicted to these and spiral out.
More so than alcohol or meth.

Used to have 2 guys who worked with me that would take around 8-12 lorcets in a 8 hour period.

what he said

I saw some pretty outrageous actions of "pain clinics" including a case where a once legitimate doctor was issuing more Oxy prescriptions than the rest of Southern Ohio combined. He'd charge 100 bucks for an appointment-an appointment that would last a couple minutes and the "patients" would go out of his office around back to his "dispensary" and get 30 doses of oxy

he basically got a life sentence after several of his "patients" died. Don't know if getting rid of prescriptions might not change anything

I am undecided to be honest.