Should Muslims be permitted to immigrate to the United States

[Diogenes]

:boohoo: How shocking is it that when debated to the point of having to admit they are wrong that the said person allows pride to interfere with the debate?

Denial of charges is not proof of innocence. Offer up something to disprove his statements or admit the flaw. Binary choice, pick one.:2brickwal

On the other hand, constant repetition of baseless claims and refusal to acknowledge the evidence of hate-filled Muslim writings about the Great Satan of freedom and opportunity does your side of the argument no credit.

 

[OdgenTugbyGlub]

On the other hand, constant repetition of baseless claims and refusal to acknowledge the evidence of hate-filled Muslim writings about the Great Satan of freedom and opportunity does your side of the argument no credit.

Those are not Islam holmes. Should I lable Christianity a religion of hate due to the hate-filled writings against Homosexuals and "lesser" races and genocides commited in Christs name? No I don't, because I know something of the Bible. If Islam is really this religion of hate hell-bent for Americas destruction, why aren't all the Muslims in America rising up to kill the heathens? Please, stop reading so much Tom Clancy. Your non-distinction between the religions basic core and the people who lead the church (or are just heard from the most) doesn't do your arguement credit either.

:spin:

 

[26 X World Champs]

Are you still around? Do you have no shame? You keep repeating the same lies over and over.

Oh really? What lies are you referring to? Do I have any shame? If by that you mean this definition of shame from Dictionary.Com then yes, I feel I have some shame that has been bestowed upon those who believe that the entire Muslim religion is evil, as you've written many times:

To outdo thoroughly; surpass: Your productivity has put the rest of us to shame.

Give it a rest and get professional help. You are one sick individual. And frankly you are starting to annoy me. Get lost.

Hmm? A mature response in a debate, kudos Mr. Mule, kudos. Will your next post be equalling enlightening and thought through as this last one? Shall we expect the same productivity as before?

Show some spine Mr. Mule, prove me wrong. Prove to everyone that, as you have claimed, all of Islam is evil, every little bit of it. C'mon, you can do it. Or prove that the many posts that you've written decapitating Islam are not racist posts? That it is not racist to hate an entire religion. If it's not racist then what is it exactly?

For example, I can unequivacobly write that I hate NAZIS, and that I am prejudiced against all Nazis, that if you are a Nazi that I hate you for being a Nazi, so from the Nazi point of view I am a Nazi racist. See, all or most of us are racists in one way or another. The more intelligent among us are racist against Al Quaeda, Nazis, the KKK, you know all those groups where virtually their entire membership profess and practice evil and hate.

Muslims on the other hand are for the most part, probably about 90% peace loving warm human beings who want to raise their children to be better than they are, want them educated, want to live peacefully in the world community.

Since there are about 1 billion Muslims that means that there are about 100 million Muslims of the Nazi/Al Quaeda/KKK persuasion, really evil people who want to harm anyone who disagrees with them, want to make us all dead. That 100 million are our enemy. They are the ones we need to stop, eradicate, rid the earth of. That does leave about 900 million good ones, and is that 900 million that do not deserve the "Anyone Who is Muslim believes in an Evil Religion" label that you've written about so often Mr. Mule.

 

[kingpin]

I disagree when you're speaking of the USA and our Consititution. It IS RACISM when we discriminate purely by nationality, race, color, or religion.

It wouldn't be the USA if we did your way...

It wasn't considered racism by everyone 60 years ago when there where "white only" drinking fountains. Now even though that was COMPLETELY racist and wrong, its totally differant than keeping a certain ethnic group out of a country for the proposes of national sovereignty. When the beliefs of that group threaten the majority of the people, its perfectly OK. If you don't believe me, what about gangs?? nowadays in some states u get 10 years for being in a gang. What are we doing there?? we are discriminating against a certain group of people based on their beliefs exc. Its just not even debated to be right or wrong because the group is a threat.

 

[Diogenes]

Those are not Islam holmes.

That is for Islam to say.

I'm waiting....

Still waiting...

Nope, don't hear anything yet... :roll:

Since there are about 1 billion Muslims that means that there are about 100 million Muslims of the Nazi/Al Quaeda/KKK persuasion, really evil people who want to harm anyone who disagrees with them, want to make us all dead. That 100 million are our enemy. They are the ones we need to stop, eradicate, rid the earth of.

Accepting your figures for the sake of argument, would you then agree that we should be looking in mosques for these Islamofascists, rather than in Buddhist daycare centers? If so, then we have only the problem of how to tell the 10% evil Muslims from the 90% not-evil Muslims in the remaining quarter of the global population. In the absence of any better suggestions, what is so terrible about denying 9 foreigners their "right" to enter this country in order to keep one terrorist out?

 

[26 X World Champs]

If so, then we have only the problem of how to tell the 10% evil Muslims from the 90% not-evil Muslims in the remaining quarter of the global population. In the absence of any better suggestions, what is so terrible about denying 9 foreigners their "right" to enter this country in order to keep one terrorist out?

It is unConsitutional and anti-American, that's why. I think we need to closely scrutinize certain groups of people more than other groups. However this does not mean that we exclude an entire group or race of people.

If you're an American who believes in this country, what we stand for, and if you believe in our Constitution how can you possibly be for discrimination?

 

[Missouri Mule]

Oh really? What lies are you referring to? Do I have any shame? If by that you mean this definition of shame from Dictionary.Com then yes, I feel I have some shame that has been bestowed upon those who believe that the entire Muslim religion is evil, as you've written many times:

Hmm? A mature response in a debate, kudos Mr. Mule, kudos. Will your next post be equalling enlightening and thought through as this last one? Shall we expect the same productivity as before?

Show some spine Mr. Mule, prove me wrong. Prove to everyone that, as you have claimed, all of Islam is evil, every little bit of it. C'mon, you can do it. Or prove that the many posts that you've written decapitating Islam are not racist posts? That it is not racist to hate an entire religion. If it's not racist then what is it exactly?

For example, I can unequivacobly write that I hate NAZIS, and that I am prejudiced against all Nazis, that if you are a Nazi that I hate you for being a Nazi, so from the Nazi point of view I am a Nazi racist. See, all or most of us are racists in one way or another. The more intelligent among us are racist against Al Quaeda, Nazis, the KKK, you know all those groups where virtually their entire membership profess and practice evil and hate.

Muslims on the other hand are for the most part, probably about 90% peace loving warm human beings who want to raise their children to be better than they are, want them educated, want to live peacefully in the world community.

Since there are about 1 billion Muslims that means that there are about 100 million Muslims of the Nazi/Al Quaeda/KKK persuasion, really evil people who want to harm anyone who disagrees with them, want to make us all dead. That 100 million are our enemy. They are the ones we need to stop, eradicate, rid the earth of. That does leave about 900 million good ones, and is that 900 million that do not deserve the "Anyone Who is Muslim believes in an Evil Religion" label that you've written about so often Mr. Mule.

This will be my final post to you. So don't bother responding because I won't waste my time.

Your comments about "racism" are absurd and unworthy of further comment. You obviously have no capability of understanding the meaning of words.

As to your bulloney that "I hate all Muslims", that is a palpable lie. I said clearly that I despise Islam and have said that many times. I have also said that I view it as a malignant cancer. I have also said that Muslims who grow up in this religion don't know any better because it is inculcated in them from birth. If any of us were born into their circumstances we would most probably share the Islamic faith. But so did the people of Germany when they embraced Hitler and the Nazis. Does this mean that I hated all the Germans? No it does not. I'm of German ancestry myself. My grandfather came from Germany but what came after him was a militaristic form of governance that didn't change until they had the hell kicked out of them in two world wars.

I don't hate Muslims. I hate the religion that spawns their hatred or more correctly the radical fanatics that make up the majority (virtually all) terrorism around the globe.

At such point that all Muslim leaders around the world renounce their "fatwas" and all of that crap I'm not going to give an inch on this matter. We ought not to be permitting into the country those people who have a faith that countenances the beheadings of innocents or the ramming of airbombs into office buildings for the sole purpose of killing large numbers of people. We don't need the people because we already have more than we need right here already. Why invite more trouble? That's not hatred. That's common sense, but judging from your repetitious and frankly idiotic posts, you have none.

As far as commenting on your further inanities, I'll just tell you now. Go take a long walk off a short pier. Be gone. I'm done with you.

 

[The Mark]

There are 34 pages in this post. I do not have time to read them all. So I will just state my point of view, and hope I'm not repeating too many posts.

I think that Muslims should indeed be allowed to immigrate to the USA. We can check them throughly to make sure they are not terrorists, but they most definitely be allowed to come here. Actually, if we block them, that might be one more reason that terrorists would hate us, and their ranks might grow.

The only problem with only letting the good Muslims in is that our borders are not secure. If we put up a 30 ft high wall around the country, we can keep anyone who we don't want in out........but that is not going to happen, and it might be a bad idea at that. Besides, they could fly in. And a wall like that would be extremely expensive. And I'm sure this suggestion would be very repulsive to some people.

 

[Diogenes]

It is unConsitutional and anti-American, that's why.

Actually, that's not true. Immigration has always been a purely administrative procedure, with the possibility of administrative appeals, but no foreign citizen has a Constitutional right to enter this country and US courts have no jurisdiction in the matter.

We can keep out anybody we darn well please, and for any reason we care to put forth (or no reason at all, if that's the way we feel about it). And it's been a very American practice for our entire national history; we've had formal country of origin annual quotas for at least a century, and up until the last few decades we made it almost impossible for anyone to come here from Asia.

I think we need to closely scrutinize certain groups of people more than other groups. However this does not mean that we exclude an entire group or race of people.

Agreed with that part, but closer scrutiny takes time and resources, funded by taxpayers, which must be prioritized in our national budget. If you can convince your congresscritter that additional background checks for Muslims are more important than, say, a $300 million bridge to nowhere in Alaska, then go for it.

If you're an American who believes in this country, what we stand for, and if you believe in our Constitution how can you possibly be for discrimination?

If you're an American who believes in this country and its Constitution, how can you possibly favor blanket entry for foreigners who would blow it up?

There is discrimination for a reason, which is common sense, and discrimination for no reason other than personal prejudice, which is bad. Since it is Muslims who have declared war on us, it is only common sense to discriminate against them by subjecting them to greater scrutiny, which in turn means that many of them will be denied entry to the US.

 

[Missouri Mule]

Anyone care to change their minds in view of the cartoon riots around the Muslim world? Coming to a neighborhood near you.

I TOLD YOU SO!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[steen]

Well, I just had to add my Yes vote here.

 

[Missouri Mule]

Well, I just had to add my Yes vote here.

Well, let's just hope they don't chop your head off or burn down your home or business. They're good at that, you know. None better!

 

[Kandahar]

Anyone care to change their minds in view of the cartoon riots around the Muslim world? Coming to a neighborhood near you.

I TOLD YOU SO!!!!!!!!!!!

I won't change my mind about the poll question, but I will qualify my previous yes answer in light of events of the past few months: Yes, Muslims should be permitted to immigrate, but there are certain countries for whom immigration should be highly restricted with tougher citizenship requirements.

There's no reason the same immigration requirements have to apply to aliens from all countries; they aren't yet US citizens, so there's no constitutional requirement for equality. For immigrants from Latin America, Subsaharan Africa, East Asia, Europe, etc, a simple test on American history and politics seems to work fine. But for citizens of Islamic countries (especially the Arab nations, plus Iran, Pakistan, and Turkey) I wouldn't be opposed to some kind of citizenship test or essay that ensures that the values of the new immigrants are compatible with American values. Or if that's unfeasible because people will bitch about it being unfair or racist, we can screen immigrants from everywhere in such a way.

 

[Missouri Mule]

I won't change my mind about the poll question, but I will qualify my previous yes answer in light of events of the past few months: Yes, Muslims should be permitted to immigrate, but there are certain countries for whom immigration should be highly restricted with tougher citizenship requirements.

There's no reason the same immigration requirements have to apply to aliens from all countries; they aren't yet US citizens, so there's no constitutional requirement for equality. For immigrants from Latin America, Subsaharan Africa, East Asia, Europe, etc, a simple test on American history and politics seems to work fine. But for citizens of Islamic countries (especially the Arab nations, plus Iran, Pakistan, and Turkey) I wouldn't be opposed to some kind of citizenship test or essay that ensures that the values of the new immigrants are compatible with American values. Or if that's unfeasible because people will bitch about it being unfair or racist, we can screen immigrants from everywhere in such a way.

I don't necessarily disagree with your reasoning. It sounds reasonable but in view of all of the rioting and burning of buildings, automobiles, and all around uncivilized conduct, what is the advantage of allowing further Muslim immigration into the United States? It is not as though we have any shortage of people here. The fact is that Europe is doomed as a continent belonging to the civilized world. It will sooner or later become more Muslim than Christian (which is already in drastic decline). We will have millions of native Europeans who will be fleeing to the United States, Canada and Australia where they can be among their own kind. I can personally count three Brits where I live in a small county that I know myself. Expect a flood of European refugees in the coming years. Why invite further trouble? We should simply cut our losses in the ME. Get out entirely. Make ourselves energy independent and let the head choppers live among their own kind. It's a "win-win" situation.

 

[vergiss]

Yeah, why wouldn't they want to live in a country where people will call them "head choppers"? :doh

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

Yeah, why wouldn't they want to live in a country where people will call them "head choppers"? :doh

And this just goes to prove your ignorance we distinguish between Muslim extremists and Muslims. As our president has said many many times this is not a war on Islam this is a war on Islamic-fascism.

 

[vergiss]

And this just goes to prove your ignorance we distinguish between Muslim extremists and Muslims. As our president has said many many times this is not a war on Islam this is a war on Islamic-fascism.

What in God's name does George W. Bush have to do with Missouri Mule's comment? Read his freaking post before you decide you have the authority to speak for him. :roll:

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

What in God's name does George W. Bush have to do with Missouri Mule's comment? Read his freaking post before you decide you have the authority to speak for him. :roll:

Well he was obviously referring to Islamic Extremists not Islam in general which given the circumstances is a pretty accurate description of their tactics.

 

[vergiss]

Well he was obviously referring to Islamic Extremists not Islam in general which given the circumstances is a pretty accurate description of their tactics.

I repeat (slowly, so you can understand):

Read...the...freaking...post!

 

[Missouri Mule]

Yeah, why wouldn't they want to live in a country where people will call them "head choppers"? :doh

Actually, that thought came to me from the movie "Syriana" where Matt Damon's character is talking to the Arab prince and is talking about how they have been chopping each other heads off for centuries and when the oil runs out they will still be chopping each other's heads off.

We just get in their way. I say we ought to just let them have their way. After all, head chopping is a sacred part of Islam or didn't you know that?

Didn't you hear Zarqawai shout "Allah Akbar" while he was sawing off Nick Berg's head? Mohammad himself presided over the decapitations of 600 men at Medina.

The Sacred Muslim Practice of Beheading
By Andrew G. Bostom
FrontPageMagazine.com | May 13, 2004

Reactions to the grotesque jihadist decapitation of yet another "infidel Jew," Mr. Berg, make clear that our intelligentsia are either dangerously uninformed, or simply unwilling to come to terms with this ugly reality: such murders are consistent with sacred jihad practices, as well as Islamic attitudes towards all non-Muslim infidels, in particular, Jews, which date back to the 7th century, and the Prophet Muhammad's own example.

According to Muhammad’s sacralized biography by Ibn Ishaq, Muhammad himself sanctioned the massacre of the Qurayza, a vanquished Jewish tribe. He appointed an "arbiter" who soon rendered this concise verdict: the men were to be put to death, the women and children sold into slavery, the spoils to be divided among the Muslims. Muhammad ratified this judgment stating that it was a decree of God pronounced from above the Seven Heavens. Thus some 600 to 900 men from the Qurayza were lead on Muhammad’s order to the Market of Medina. Trenches were dug and the men were beheaded, and their decapitated corpses buried in the trenches while Muhammad watched in attendance. Women and children were sold into slavery, a number of them being distributed as gifts among Muhammad’s companions, and Muhammad chose one of the Qurayza women (Rayhana) for himself. The Qurayza’s property and other possessions (including weapons) were also divided up as additional "booty" among the Muslims, to support further jihad campaigns.

The classical Muslim jurist al-Mawardi (a Shafi’ite jurist, d. 1058) from Baghdad was a seminal, prolific scholar who lived during the so-called Islamic "Golden Age" of the Abbasid-Baghdadian Caliphate. He wrote the following, based on widely accepted interpretations of the Qur'an and Sunna (i.e., the recorded words and deeds of Muhammad), regarding infidel prisoners of jihad campaigns:

“As for the captives, the amir [ruler] has the choice of taking the most beneficial action of four possibilities: the first to put them to death by cutting their necks; the second, to enslave them and apply the laws of slavery regarding their sale and manumission; the third, to ransom them in exchange for goods or prisoners; and fourth, to show favor to them and pardon them. Allah, may he be exalted, says, 'When you encounter those [infidels] who deny [the Truth=Islam] then strike [their] necks' (Qur'an sura 47, verse 4)”....Abu’l-Hasan al-Mawardi, al-Ahkam as-Sultaniyyah." [The Laws of Islamic Governance, trans. by Dr. Asadullah Yate, (London), Ta-Ha Publishers Ltd., 1996, p. 192. Emphasis added.]

Indeed such odious “rules” were iterated by all four classical schools of Islamic jurisprudence, across the vast Muslim empire.

For centuries, from the Iberian peninsula to the Indian subcontinent, jihad campaigns waged by Muslim armies against infidel Jews, Christians, Zoroastrians, Buddhists and Hindus, were punctuated by massacres, including mass throat slittings and beheadings. During the period of “enlightened” Muslim rule, the Christians of Iberian Toledo, who had first submitted to their Arab Muslim invaders in 711 or 712, revolted in 713. In the harsh Muslim reprisal that ensued, Toledo was pillaged, and all the Christian notables had their throats cut. On the Indian subcontinent, Babur (1483-1530), the founder of the Mughal Empire, who is revered as a paragon of Muslim tolerance by modern revisionist historians, recorded the following in his autobiographical “Baburnama,” about infidel prisoners of a jihad campaign:

"Those who were brought in alive [having surrendered] were ordered beheaded, after which a tower of skulls was erected in the camp." [The Baburnama -Memoirs of Babur, Prince and Emperor, translated and edited by Wheeler M. Thacktson, Oxford University Press,1996, p. 188. Emphasis added.]...

(Snip)

http://frontpagemag.com/articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=13371

 

[earthworm]

Then it is up to the Islamics to clean their own house.
The extremists, and their supporters, must be renounced, completely, honestly, 100%.
Otherwise,like it or not, all of the Muslims must be treated the same.
They have bought this upon themselves..

The Mexicans have nothing to do with this, even if they do, as a group, commit more crimes.The causes here are poverty and discrimination, not being Mexican..

 

[jamesrage]

Yes, Muslims should be permitted to immigrate, but there are certain countries for whom immigration should be highly restricted with tougher citizenship requirements.
.

I can agree with that statement.We should restrict which countries we accept immigrints from.

 

[Missouri Mule]

Then it is up to the Islamics to clean their own house.
The extremists, and their supporters, must be renounced, completely, honestly, 100%.
Otherwise,like it or not, all of the Muslims must be treated the same.
They have bought this upon themselves..

The Mexicans have nothing to do with this, even if they do, as a group, commit more crimes.The causes here are poverty and discrimination, not being Mexican..

That would be wonderful if it were possible. However, virtually every scholarly study of the situation is that Islam is incapable of reforming itself. In other words, Islam is incompatible with modern civilization.

Islam is unique among world religions. It is a system of beliefs that occupy all of a person's universe of thinking. Anything outside this universe is considered to be composed of infidels and impure thought that must be erradicated, whatever the cost.

We invite further Muslim immigration into the United States at our own peril. Europe is now reaping the whirlwind by ignoring this threat for decades. Europe will be remembered only in the history books as they are overrun by the coming Muslim hoards who will impose their beliefs on the indigenous populations. The demographic statistics simply offer no other conclusion.

 

[earthworm]

I must agree with the Missouri Mule 100%.
Thus, in conclusion Islam is the definition of intolerance.
To protect themselves all the nations must isolate this Islamic cancer, and develop new sources of energy, allowing the Islamic Arabs to drown in their oil..

Maybe ,500 years from now they will grow up, shed their hateful religion and rejoin the world..

 

[Missouri Mule]

I must agree with the Missouri Mule 100%.
Thus, in conclusion Islam is the definition of intolerance.
To protect themselves all the nations must isolate this Islamic cancer, and develop new sources of energy, allowing the Islamic Arabs to drown in their oil..

Maybe ,500 years from now they will grow up, shed their hateful religion and rejoin the world..

Yes, I think about 500 years is about right on the mark. In the meantime the ME will forever be known as the "Headchopper's Ball." Let Allah sort them all out. Just stay far away from the rest of civilized people. I've seen more than enough of this "Religion of Peace" for a lifetime (or two lifetimes.)