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Should Muslims be permitted to immigrate to the United States

Should Muslims be permitted to immigrate to the United States?

  • Yes

    Votes: 42 66.7%
  • No

    Votes: 14 22.2%
  • Maybe

    Votes: 8 12.7%
  • Unsure

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    63

Missouri Mule

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kingpin said:
I just cant stand this idea of politically correct war. The military over there has to fight the terrorists and the media at the same time. What happened to old fashioned wars where if we had a problem with some people we just blew em up and rebuild them and made friends. A country can not fight a 1/2 war, its either all or nothing, we either beat them or they find a way to beat us. thats war. What we are trying to do is pinch them until they say uncle. I hate this leftist media showing all the wounded children all the time for shock value. Big deal, people die in war, women kids and the elderly, that is called collateral damage. What i cant stand is that 9/11 wasn't collateral damage, it was the targeting of the innocent intentionally. They can do that, they can kill all the innocent they want, and they are freedom fighters and martyrs. While if we have some collateral damage trying to kill them, not targeting the innocent, targeting them. We are war criminals.

That is BS. We should not only have the leeway for a little collateral damage, we should be able to dictate who can and can not come into the country. Not only for the reasons of national security, but for the security of the Muslims also, because if there is another 9/11 there will be riots and many of the ones living in America will find themselves in bad positions. Which will inevitably lead to people pointing fingers at Americans and the US gov. on how racists America is or whatever. Bottom line is, America isn't the land of opportunity for the rest of the world anymore. America is just another country, like any other, it just has a little more currency to spend. This socialist media crap that says we owe it to the world to support them and should give all this aid for nothing. We have done our share of that in WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, and many many other places. For all I care the US can sit back in a lazyboy recliner and watch the world destroy itself, because thats all it has to do, sit back and watch.

Correct, and a lot of people don't realize that the population density on our coasts often exceed even the mostly densely populated third world countries. We ALREADY have enough people here. We don't need more and we certainly don't need those who would destroy this nation.
 

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Missouri Mule said:
Correct, and a lot of people don't realize that the population density on our coasts often exceed even the mostly densely populated third world countries. We ALREADY have enough people here. We don't need more and we certainly don't need those who would destroy this nation.

AMEN !!!!!!!
 

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Ghandi>Bush said:
What is the difference between Christians and Muslims that has cut many Muslims off from from a "Renaissance"?
A failure to separate church and state.

The west experimented with having clerics at or near the levers of power for several centuries, starting about the time Charlemagne had the pope crown him as Holy Roman Emperor (800 AD). During the period when clerics wielded power, they gave us the Crusades, the Inquisition, and the Thirty Years War. The last was so devastating to Europe that when it was settled (Peace of Westphalia, 1648 AD), the experiment ended.

Muslims need to do the same, and not let the clerics dictate political policies.
 

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The people that would say yes to that pool pls understand one thing islam is a religon and arabs are a culture ..i am Turkish citizen, my religon is islam but i study in a american university and i guess as u know as well , since a long time we had between the countries good relaxions.anyway if the arab terroriest are doing the attacks on so , why do u not block them only..i mean the people that basically are in the terorist acts..make a background search ..interview he or she will show the real thingking then decide ..but that was to say simply no is totaly racist view...
 

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TurkSol said:
The people that would say yes to that pool pls understand one thing islam is a religon and arabs are a culture ..i am Turkish citizen, my religon is islam but i study in a american university and i guess as u know as well , since a long time we had between the countries good relaxions.anyway if the arab terroriest are doing the attacks on so , why do u not block them only..i mean the people that basically are in the terorist acts..make a background search ..interview he or she will show the real thingking then decide ..but that was to say simply no is totaly racist view...

Weren't the London bombers Pakistani in origin? They are not Arabs, are they? I don't get the "racism" charge. What am I missing here?

This is a rather complete definition of racism in the link below. I don't believe that blocking further immigration of Muslims to the United States meets that definition. Typically, racism has usually been defined here as black or white (caucasian), Asian (Japanese, Chinese), etc. Not ethnic or religiously based. That is to say a black American might be a Christian or might be a Muslim. A white American might also be a Christian or might be a Muslim, Hindu, or whatever. The issue here is the religion.

I wish I could feel comfortable with Turkey but it has trending back toward Islamic fundamentalism and as you know this is a primary reason why there is so much reluctance from the EU to admit Turkey. If not for the religion and religious displays I don't believe it would be much of an issue. For example, if China were contiguous to Europe, I seriously doubt there would be much reluctance to admitting them although they will need to make further adjustments in their political system which they are doing.

So as I say, it is the religion; not race or ethnicity. Islam simply has to throw off any vestiges of the 7th Century and modernize and recognize plurality in all of societies. I could care less if someone is a Muslim. What I am concerned with is someone who wants to fly airbombs into packed office buildings and inflict massive casualties on innocent civilians. That is virtually an entirely Muslim problem. For a further definition of "racism", see below.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism
 

26 X World Champs

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Missouri Mule said:
Weren't the London bombers Pakistani in origin? They are not Arabs, are they? I don't get the "racism" charge. What am I missing here?

This is a rather complete definition of racism in the link below. I don't believe that blocking further immigration of Muslims to the United States meets that definition.
So if you write these words about Muslims, what is it then?

Slurs including "camel jockey," "sand nigger" and "terrorist."

That's not racist?
 

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Thank you for ur answer , even thou the government that is in charge for the moment is close to the islamic view ..we as the state and the people of the Republic of Turkey ..as u know as well ..differt religon from state when Turkey was created by Mustafa Kemal Ataturk ..With the joining of Eu , i am sure that we will gain more power and take future steps towards towards a better political system...
 

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Without digging through the whole thread, I'll just say that it's important to distinguish between Muslims and islamic radicals... It would be a hideous wrong to ban anyone from immigration due to their religious faith, but radicals of all stripe bear further examination.

At the point where a persons interpretation of their religious, moral, or political beliefs lead them to feel it's ok for them to harm another person who disagrees, it's time to cut "tolerance" short.
 

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26 X World Champs said:
So if you write these words about Muslims, what is it then?

Slurs including "camel jockey," "sand nigger" and "terrorist."

That's not racist?

"Terrorist" is a "slur?" Are you out of your ever loving mind?

And BTW, I've never used the term "sand nigger." You're making that up or just outright lying. I can't recall using "camel jockey" but if I did that's a stretch to say it is a slur on Muslims. Camels are widely used in the Middle East. We've even used them in the past during the 1800s by our military in America. A person who rides a camel would be correctly referred to as a "camel jockey." I suppose it might serve you better if such a person would be called a "camel operator." (Like vehicle operator.) Good grief, man, get a life.
 

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A little news about some Muslims in Australia.

Make up your own mind.
==================
Gang rapist's attacks unavoidable, says lawyer
By Natasha Wallace
October 12, 2005

A violent gang rapist should have been given a lesser sentence partly because he was a "cultural time bomb" whose attacks were inevitable, as he had emigrated from a country with traditional views of women, his barrister has argued.

MSK, who, with his three Pakistani brothers, raped several girls at their Ashfield family home over six months in 2002, was affected by "cultural conditioning … in the context of intoxification", Stephen Odgers, SC, told the NSW Court of Criminal Appeal yesterday.

MSK, 26, MAK, 25 and MMK, 19, are appealing against the severity of their sentences after they were found guilty of nine counts of aggravated sexual assault in company - a crime carrying a maximum penalty of life imprisonment - against two girls, aged 16 and 17, in July 2002.

MSK and MMK were jailed for 22 years, with a non-parole period of 16½ years, and 13 years, respectively, and MAK for 16 years (12 years non-parole).

Court orders prevent them being named. They are yet to be sentenced for other rapes.

Mr Odgers said "new evidence" showed MSK had a "mental disorder" at the time of the rapes and had stopped taking his medication - supplied by his father, a general practitioner.

He also said Justice Brian Sully had made a "clear error" in sentencing them to an extra six years on two counts, rather than one - referring to an act in which MMK withdrew his penis and took off the condom and then continued to rape one of the girls.

"It was the same victim, it occurred in the same location, there was no relevant difference in the nature of the act. The time gap between the offences was minimal," he said. Mr Odgers said a forensic psychologist, David Greenberg, had diagnosed MSK with "atypical compulsive obsessive disorder".

MSK said: "When I stopped taking medication, I never had any idea in my mind that I would be committing these problems. If anything happened, it would happen accidentally, but I was commanded to do these things."

After a special hearing, a judge concluded earlier this year that MSK was not mentally ill - the same conclusion reached by pre-sentence psychology reports in 2003.

Mr Odgers said the new evidence showed that he had a disease, which, combined with alcohol and the cultural conditioning of "a society with very traditional views of women", was "clearly a factor in the commissioning of these offences".


"The applicant was a cultural time bomb," Mr Odgers said. "It was almost inevitable that something like this would happen. His culpability is lessened because of that combination."...

(Snip)

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national...r/2005/10/11/1128796528939.html?oneclick=true
 

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TurkSol said:
Thank you for ur answer , even thou the government that is in charge for the moment is close to the islamic view ..we as the state and the people of the Republic of Turkey ..as u know as well ..differt religon from state when Turkey was created by Mustafa Kemal Ataturk ..With the joining of Eu , i am sure that we will gain more power and take future steps towards towards a better political system...

Ataturk is an interesting person and very worthy of historical note. He transformed Turkey from the old Ottoman Empire and indeed made many worthwhile changes.

For your information, and from my vantage point in the U.S., I personally favor Turkey joining the E.U. but Turkey is going to have to rein in any Islamist radicals or that will be a short lived union. It just won't fly. Being a Muslim is no crime nor is it inherently dangerous so long as it co-exists in a pluralistic society. But when it steps over the line then it becomes unacceptable.

Just to make this clear. If a troublesome Jehovah Witness comes to my door and tries to peddle his literature and bulloney I can run him off my property and not fear retribution. If a Muslim fanatic like bin Laden comes to my door, well, can I have the same assurance or is my head going to be separated from my body? I'm not sure. This terrorism throughout the world must end. And there must be no rationalizations; no "root causes" or other excuse mongering. It must end or Muslims will have this problem to deal with forever. That's why I have said this is a Muslim problem. They are the ones who must take the bit in their teeth and deal with it forcefully and put a stop to it.
 

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Missouri Mule said:
"Terrorist" is a "slur?" Are you out of your ever loving mind?

And BTW, I've never used the term "sand nigger." You're making that up or just outright lying. I can't recall using "camel jockey" but if I did that's a stretch to say it is a slur on Muslims. Camels are widely used in the Middle East. We've even used them in the past during the 1800s by our military in America. A person who rides a camel would be correctly referred to as a "camel jockey." I suppose it might serve you better if such a person would be called a "camel operator." (Like vehicle operator.) Good grief, man, get a life.
:2rofll: :ws A little paranoid or just feeling guilty down under Mule? Read my post dear friend? I wasn't suggesting that YOU said any of those slurs! DUH!

I will dumb it down for anyone who misunderstood what I meant. Those three terms, "camel jockey," "sand nigger" and "terrorist" are commnoly used by RACISTS when they refer to Arabs and/or Muslims the same way that Racists in the USA use terms like "nigger" or "kike" or when someone writes that most young black men are criminals. That too is racism.

In an earlier posts Mule, many posts actually, you keep writing that it is not racist when using slurs against anyone who is a Muslim, you claim it is not racism. You probably will again if you reply to this post.

My post used those three terms, "camel jockey," "sand nigger" and "terrorist" as examples of racism against Muslims & Arabs.

You seemed to also be confused by the word "terrorist" as a racial slur. As a matter of fact you wrote:
Missouri Mule said:
"Terrorist" is a "slur?" Are you out of your ever loving mind?
No, I am not out of my mind. People, maybe even you use the word Terrorist to describe ALL or MOST Muslims, and in that context it most definitely is a racist term.

So dear boy, perhaps now my last post is clearer to you and if you reread it you will not take it so personally? I must admit I chuckled quite a bit over your explanation of "Camel Jockey". The justification as you wrote it was way cool, explains a lot about you too, you know?

You too, Mr. Mule, are a frickin' genius!
 

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TurkSol said:
The people that would say yes to that pool pls understand one thing islam is a religon and arabs are a culture ..i am Turkish citizen, my religon is islam but i study in a american university and i guess as u know as well , since a long time we had between the countries good relaxions.anyway if the arab terroriest are doing the attacks on so , why do u not block them only..i mean the people that basically are in the terorist acts..make a background search ..interview he or she will show the real thingking then decide ..but that was to say simply no is totaly racist view...
Agreed, the problem is largely cultural - both Turkey and Indonesia are relatively free of common support for radical Islamists. But since the terrorists are mostly from Pakistan, Iran and Arab countries, and since they cite the Koran and Islam as the justification for their behavior, it is difficult for us outsiders to separate the two. Would you agree that intensified background checks would necessarily focus more on Muslims than on other religions?

Thank you for ur answer , even thou the government that is in charge for the moment is close to the islamic view ..we as the state and the people of the Republic of Turkey ..as u know as well ..differt religon from state when Turkey was created by Mustafa Kemal Ataturk ..With the joining of Eu , i am sure that we will gain more power and take future steps towards towards a better political system...
Agreed, and I wish you and your country good luck.

DevilsAdvocate said:
Without digging through the whole thread, I'll just say that it's important to distinguish between Muslims and islamic radicals... It would be a hideous wrong to ban anyone from immigration due to their religious faith, but radicals of all stripe bear further examination.
Agreed, but would you not agree that immigrants from countries where radicalism is rampant will be more closely examined than, say, ethnic Swedes?

Missouri Mule said:
This terrorism throughout the world must end. And there must be no rationalizations; no "root causes" or other excuse mongering. It must end or Muslims will have this problem to deal with forever. That's why I have said this is a Muslim problem. They are the ones who must take the bit in their teeth and deal with it forcefully and put a stop to it.
Agreed completely. Terrorism must never be allowed to become a successful political tactic, and it is Muslims who must protest this defilement of their religion if they are to escape the stain of it.
 

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frigging camel operators, Its not racism to keep a certain people out of your country, if the majority of the people believe in it, its national sovereignty.
 

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kingpin said:
frigging camel operators, Its not racism to keep a certain people out of your country, if the majority of the people believe in it, its national sovereignty.
I disagree when you're speaking of the USA and our Consititution. It IS RACISM when we discriminate purely by nationality, race, color, or religion.

It wouldn't be the USA if we did your way...
 

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26 X World Champs said:
:2rofll: :ws A little paranoid or just feeling guilty down under Mule? Read my post dear friend? I wasn't suggesting that YOU said any of those slurs! DUH!

I will dumb it down for anyone who misunderstood what I meant. Those three terms, "camel jockey," "sand nigger" and "terrorist" are commnoly used by RACISTS when they refer to Arabs and/or Muslims the same way that Racists in the USA use terms like "nigger" or "kike" or when someone writes that most young black men are criminals. That too is racism.

In an earlier posts Mule, many posts actually, you keep writing that it is not racist when using slurs against anyone who is a Muslim, you claim it is not racism. You probably will again if you reply to this post.

My post used those three terms, "camel jockey," "sand nigger" and "terrorist" as examples of racism against Muslims & Arabs.

You seemed to also be confused by the word "terrorist" as a racial slur. As a matter of fact you wrote:

No, I am not out of my mind. People, maybe even you use the word Terrorist to describe ALL or MOST Muslims, and in that context it most definitely is a racist term.

So dear boy, perhaps now my last post is clearer to you and if you reread it you will not take it so personally? I must admit I chuckled quite a bit over your explanation of "Camel Jockey". The justification as you wrote it was way cool, explains a lot about you too, you know?

You too, Mr. Mule, are a frickin' genius!

Whatever you say.
 

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What was that? Cop out? What? Yes, I think it was a cop out!

:2wave:
 

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OdgenTugbyGlub said:
What was that? Cop out? What? Yes, I think it was a cop out!

:2wave:

I'm tired of arguing with him. He parses everything I say and eventually it is time to call a halt to the discussion. Trying to argue this subject with him is like trying to argue with a fence post. I have better things to do with my time. If you want to believe this is a "cop-out", go ahead. I don't want to argue with you either.
 

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::cough:: cop out ::cough::

I'd have to say due to the nature of your response you are OBLIGATED to respond, if only for my amusement. And in answer to the question that many of you will ask, the universe does revolve around me. Now DANCE MONKEYS!

:monkey :monkey :monkey :lamo
 

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OdgenTugbyGlub said:
::cough:: cop out ::cough::

I'd have to say due to the nature of your response you are OBLIGATED to respond, if only for my amusement. And in answer to the question that many of you will ask, the universe does revolve around me. Now DANCE MONKEYS!

:monkey :monkey :monkey :lamo

Actually, I'm watching a Nextel Cup race that has become a wreckathon and am not terribly interested in discussing this right now. I only responded just to let him know that I read his silly post. There is really nothing I can add that I haven't already said. So why bother? 48 laps to go.
 

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Surely dancing for me is more interesting than watching cars go in circles for a few hours. Now DANCE! Don't make me get the taser out.....
 

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OdgenTugbyGlub said:
Surely dancing for me is more interesting than watching cars go in circles for a few hours. Now DANCE! Don't make me get the taser out.....

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. And I'm also a professional bike riding fan. I like the competition.
 

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Missouri Mule said:
I'm tired of arguing with him. He parses everything I say and eventually it is time to call a halt to the discussion. Trying to argue this subject with him is like trying to argue with a fence post. I have better things to do with my time. If you want to believe this is a "cop-out", go ahead. I don't want to argue with you either.
:boohoo: How shocking is it that when debated to the point of having to admit they are wrong that the said person allows pride to interfere with the debate?

Mule, you keep writing that hating Muslims as you do can in no way be considered racism, you said that it is not racism unless you hate someone for being Black or Chinese, but if you hate someone for being Mulsim that is not racism.

I disagree, vehemently. My previous post spells out why I think that people who hate Muslims for being Muslim, namely they hate the religion, they think that the religion itself is evil are racists. You've posted many times how much you hate the Muslim religion. Do you deny writing post after post where you said that Islam is a sick and evil religion with the goal of killing all infidels? We all know that you've written it many times.

So, I think that someone's posts who regularly (or irregularly) write how much they hate the Muslim religion are in fact writing racist and hate filled post. I would feel the same way had someone written equally racist and hate filled posts about any other religion or group of people.

Shall we review? Anyone, IMHO who writes posts that state that the Muslim religion is sick, evil and hell bent on killing anyone who disagrees is a racist. Do you understand Mr. Mule?

:blowup: :gunner: :blastem:
 

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26 X World Champs said:
:boohoo: How shocking is it that when debated to the point of having to admit they are wrong that the said person allows pride to interfere with the debate?

Mule, you keep writing that hating Muslims as you do can in no way be considered racism, you said that it is not racism unless you hate someone for being Black or Chinese, but if you hate someone for being Mulsim that is not racism.

I disagree, vehemently. My previous post spells out why I think that people who hate Muslims for being Muslim, namely they hate the religion, they think that the religion itself is evil are racists. You've posted many times how much you hate the Muslim religion. Do you deny writing post after post where you said that Islam is a sick and evil religion with the goal of killing all infidels? We all know that you've written it many times.

So, I think that someone's posts who regularly (or irregularly) write how much they hate the Muslim religion are in fact writing racist and hate filled post. I would feel the same way had someone written equally racist and hate filled posts about any other religion or group of people.

Shall we review? Anyone, IMHO who writes posts that state that the Muslim religion is sick, evil and hell bent on killing anyone who disagrees is a racist. Do you understand Mr. Mule?

:blowup: :gunner: :blastem:

Are you still around? Do you have no shame? You keep repeating the same lies over and over. Give it a rest and get professional help. You are one sick individual. And frankly you are starting to annoy me. Get lost.
 

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Denial of charges is not proof of innocence. Offer up something to disprove his statements or admit the flaw. Binary choice, pick one.:2brickwal
 
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