Should Muslims be permitted to immigrate to the United States

[26 X World Champs]

Re: Another take on the Bali bombings by Christopher Hitchens

You have lied once again when you say that "I would kill all Muslims." I said nothing of the sort.

Perhaps a MULE refresher course is in order since you appear to have amnesia? Remember when you wrote this?

When I said it would be preferable that there be zero Muslims I am stating that it would in fact be preferable to what we have right now.

Source: http://www.debatepolitics.com/showpost.php?p=94369&postcount=1461

 

[Missouri Mule]

Re: Another take on the Bali bombings by Christopher Hitchens

Perhaps a MULE refresher course is in order since you appear to have amnesia? Remember when you wrote this?

Source: http://www.debatepolitics.com/showpost.php?p=94369&postcount=1461

Is English your second language? I'm beginning to think that.

I said clearly that it would be best if there were no Muslims. That is true. What I also said that it would be best if the religion of Islam were never founded. That would follow by anyone with a modicum of intelligence that there would be no Muslims today and we wouldn't be living in constant fear of another terrorist attack.

READ MY LIPS.
I never said that all Muslims should be exterminated as you have claimed. Now knock it off or if you can't find it possible, then go get your head examined. They have modern pharmaceuticals to deal with obsessions such as you have displayed.

 

[Gandhi>Bush]

That also includes the hundreds of terrorist attacks held throughout the country by mostly if not all muslim terrorist. Lets also remeber this was not the only attack they perpetrated on the WTC. And any other attacks that may have been cut short by other circumstances. It's not just 19 men that have done this. There were many more that are never seen that helped in various ways other then fly the planes. Sorry If I disgust you.

Hundreds of terrorist attacks throughout the country? What are you talking about?

Honestly when I hear about palistenians getting killed I don't feel happy. I don't feel anything to be honest with you. It's the world they want to live in. And that being said I don't feel joy or sorrow either way.

I'm a bit skeptical about that, but if you are indifferent that's not much better for your case.

I was referring more to the terrorist and those that assist them in their hunt throughout the world

So this statement has nothging to do with Muslims in general...

I think that is justice considering the atrocities they have performed

These men think it is justice to kill Americans because of the atrocities they have performed. The difference is we have the ability to give them a trial and public hearing and we have the chance to show that we show mercy to men that do not show mercy to us. We are right and they are wrong. That's the message with we should be sending to the world of Islam.

Again I am talking mainly about the terrorist and there extensive support network

So again this statement has nothing to do with Muslims in general...

Thats not my problem, your killing people. If you don't know that murdering people is wrong then your better off dead. You've already equated the word "Muslim" to 9/11.

I think that last sentence is a typo. If not, I'm missing your poinnt. But as for the first part: What has the US done to show that killing is wrong? Fight a war? Great plan.

With all the death and destruction done in the name of islam it's a tough corillation to ignore. But again I know there not all terrorist.

Then stop equating Muslims to terrorist actions.

I'm more concerned about American lives then islam/muslim feelings.

You don't think maybe there is a relationship between the two?

 

[Gandhi>Bush]

But those who do blow themselves up are treated as heros. As evidence I present the image of Palestinians dancing in the street to celebrate 9/11, and the admitted enormous popularity of bin Laden in Pakistan.

My solution to that would be to stop publicly supporting Pakistan. If I had a problem with a foriegn government, I would have a conversation with said foriegn government. I would discover why it is that a man like bin Laden could possibly be construed as a hero and then I would work to change that.

What do you feel when you hear about Palestinians being killed in Gaza or the West Bank?

Yes it is. Every race and culture has its share of psychopaths, but only in the Muslim world are they celebrated as heros.

You should read bin Laden's letter to America. He's not a psycopath at all. He's actually really intelligent, just a radical.

Actually, I have heard of a number of cases where terrorists have attacked Hindu temples. I have also heard that the mob retributions which follow are quite terrible. Perhaps we could learn something from the Indians...

We could learn something from an Indian, but I would not recommend learning anything from a violent mob. I have heard of no such attacks though.

Tolerance of Muslim extremists in Pakistan, versus a total lack of tolerance for Muslim extremists in India.

You don't think it has anything to do with social issues maybe the comparison of the standard of living?

The same as anyone else - make it very clear that he is no threat to me, my family, my neighbors, and my fellow citizens.

So basically a porkless brown man with a funny hat moves in next door and you think nothing of it or does he have to pass a quiz first?

 

[Gandhi>Bush]

Actually, no. Even we know where bin Laden is. The Pakistanis won't allow us in and they won't go hunt him down.

If we knew where bin Laden was, we would grab his goofy ass. You know it and I know it. With or without the consent of Pakistan. If there was any credible evidence to suggest that Usama was in Pakistan, the media would leech on to something like that and the people would be demanding his turn over to a degree that the government could not ignore.

 

[Diogenes]

What do you feel when you hear about Palestinians being killed in Gaza or the West Bank?

Nothing. Absolutely nothing. Except maybe an occasional chuckle, like when one squad of terrorists tried to plant a bomb with a timer, got confused about daylight savings time, and blew themselves up on the way to their target. The Palestinians and their eternal temper tantrums exhausted my patience long ago.

You should read bin Laden's letter to America. He's not a psycopath at all. He's actually really intelligent, just a radical.

The letter is good propaganda for the folks Lenin described as useful idiots. His actions declare him to be a psychopath.

You don't think it has anything to do with social issues maybe the comparison of the standard of living?

That's a subject you may wish to explore more thoroughly. Do you suppose Islam is the reason that Islamic countries have a standard of living that is way behind the rest of the world?

So basically a porkless brown man with a funny hat moves in next door and you think nothing of it or does he have to pass a quiz first?

Much more than a quiz. The answers to a quiz are merely words, and talk is cheap.

If we knew where bin Laden was, we would grab his goofy ass.

Hardly. Have you ever been to the canyon country of Utah or the Kiaparowits Plateau? The terrain is somewhat similar.

 

[quietrage]

I didn't say ALL Muslims were terrorists. Have never said that. Your point?

Note: Terrorists do not hang signs around their neck entitled "Muslim Terrorist." Neither did any of the 9/11 bombers. (15 of the 19 9/11 terrorists were from Saudi Arabia.)

You know that all terrorists are not terrorists, but you want to punish all of them? I also know that most of the 911 bombers were from Saudi which is why I said that my roommate is Saudi. You see once you have personal contact with members of a group of people you tend to see that there are radicals in that group but most are normal humans just like you. So the idea of punishing every member of a group just seems insane.
Just remember most serial killers are white and we are not punished because of that.

 

[Missouri Mule]

You know that all terrorists are not terrorists, but you want to punish all of them? I also know that most of the 911 bombers were from Saudi which is why I said that my roommate is Saudi. You see once you have personal contact with members of a group of people you tend to see that there are radicals in that group but most are normal humans just like you. So the idea of punishing every member of a group just seems insane.
Just remember most serial killers are white and we are not punished because of that.

Say again??????????????

 

[Missouri Mule]

If we knew where bin Laden was, we would grab his goofy ass. You know it and I know it. With or without the consent of Pakistan. If there was any credible evidence to suggest that Usama was in Pakistan, the media would leech on to something like that and the people would be demanding his turn over to a degree that the government could not ignore.

That is absolutely not a true statement. You may naively believe that but it most assuredly not the case. We cannot go into a soverign nation we are not at war with and to go in Pakistan against their government's permission would incite the Muslim masses to God only knows mass hysteria.

He's there. I'm telling you. He is in western Pakistan. There is not a scintilla of doubt about it.

 

[26 X World Champs]

He's there. I'm telling you. He is in western Pakistan. There is not a scintilla of doubt about it.

How often have we read rants from people who write like Mule does that Clinton blew it and should've caught Bin Laden and that he failed to do so? One of the major complaints was the lack of effort, aka funding and commitment to catch him allowed him to be elusive.

How come then, 4 years and 9 months into Bush's presidency he and his minions have not caught Bin Laden? Is he not committed? Is he not spending enough money? How come?

I can hardly wait to hear the spin in reply? Bushie's will never criticize their god, the person they worship blindly. It seems to me that with all the resources and the strong conservative commitment to get him the fact that he's watching Family Guy somewhere on his satellite dish is quite revealing!

The TRUTH IMHO is that UBL is damn hard to find, near impossible, and it is NOT a failure of Clinton OR Bush that he's laughing at the Griffins....

 

[Tashah]

We could learn something from an Indian, but I would not recommend learning anything from a violent mob. I have heard of no such attacks though.

Google 'Gujarat and 2002 and riots'

 

[Gandhi>Bush]

Nothing. Absolutely nothing. Except maybe an occasional chuckle, like when one squad of terrorists tried to plant a bomb with a timer, got confused about daylight savings time, and blew themselves up on the way to their target. The Palestinians and their eternal temper tantrums exhausted my patience long ago.

You are inidfferent to their problems or you "chuckle?" Why do you expect things from people that you yourself do not give?

The letter is good propaganda for the folks Lenin described as useful idiots. His actions declare him to be a psychopath.

He is quite sane. His actions make him a murderer not a psycopath.

That's a subject you may wish to explore more thoroughly. Do you suppose Islam is the reason that Islamic countries have a standard of living that is way behind the rest of the world?

I think the governments are a direct cause to the standard of living.

Much more than a quiz. The answers to a quiz are merely words, and talk is cheap.

What would you demand of them?

Hardly. Have you ever been to the canyon country of Utah or the Kiaparowits Plateau? The terrain is somewhat similar.

If we knew Usama bin Laden's exact location be it a cave some sort of hut, we would grab his goofy ass.

 

[cnredd]

If we knew where bin Laden was, we would grab his goofy ass. You know it and I know it. With or without the consent of Pakistan. If there was any credible evidence to suggest that Usama was in Pakistan, the media would leech on to something like that and the people would be demanding his turn over to a degree that the government could not ignore.

As per a recent article combined with previous comments...

Afghan official says bin Laden still in Pakistan
Last Updated Wed, 14 Sep 2005 11:28:06 EDT
CBC News
The spokesman for the Afghanistan Interior Ministry said Wednesday that the wanted fugitive, al-Qaeda leader Osama Bin Laden, was probably still moving around Pakistan's tribal lands, guarded by Taliban and Arab fighters...

...Mashal said bin Laden later re-crossed the border to Khost, Afghanistan, where Taliban leader Jalaluddin Haqqani gave him refuge, before returning to Pakistan, this time heading for Miranshah, the main town in another tribal agency, North Waziristan.

Mashal's statement appears to confim the American view that bin Laden, who has evaded U.S. authorities since the September 2001 attacks on the New York World Trade Centre, is probably still hiding in the rugged mountains between Pakistan and Afghanistan.

http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2005/09/14/bin_Laden20050914.html

Now why wouldn't they "grab his goofy ass"?...

My theory is that he is, indeed, in the mountains of Pakistan...here's the issue...

That area is home to tribal groups that live as if they are not under Pakistani rule...They are Fundamental Radicals when it comes to Islam. If they could, they would overthrow Mushareef in an Islamabad minute...

If he were to go into that region with force, the locals would consider it an invasion, which would result in a civil war and a possible overthrow(which, by the way, would mean access to nukes).

Mushareef is avoiding this because of the long term interests of the US(the nukes), but alot MORE for his own interests(survival).

He knows that giving up Bin Laden to the US might mean giving HIMSELF up to his local enemies. Keeping him "contained" is what is keeping himself alive...barely...

http://www.debatepolitics.com/showpost.php?p=69484&postcount=30

 

[Diogenes]

You are inidfferent to their problems or you "chuckle?" Why do you expect things from people that you yourself do not give?

It might be more productive for you to ask that of the terrorists.

He is quite sane. His actions make him a murderer not a psycopath.

Thank you for your opinion, doctor, but I disagree.

I think the governments are a direct cause to the standard of living.

To the extent that it allows people to exercise their natural industry, the government can be helpful. To the extent that it enforces a religious code developed centuries ago and refuses to recognize reality, the government can be very unhelpful. So again, why is it that Islamic states are such colossal failures?

What would you demand of them?

A prolonged period of active protest and action against the moral sewer of terrorism.

If we knew Usama bin Laden's exact location be it a cave some sort of hut, we would grab his goofy ass.

Or dig it out. But we don't know the exact location that precisely. We can only hope he is now in a cave whose entrance was collapsed by the earthquake, shooting his bodyguards so that he can breathe his last breath alone, savoring his own stench of fear while he takes his own sweet time about dying. :mrgreen:

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally Posted by Gandhi>Bush
What would you demand of them?

To hate the Yankees and love the Angels.

Baseball in Iraq. You can't knock this.
Unless your a soccer-mom.

 

[Gandhi>Bush]

It might be more productive for you to ask that of the terrorists.

It might be more productive for you to be the change you want to see in these people. I would ask the question of any party involved.

Thank you for your opinion, doctor, but I disagree.

You can be a smart ass about this all you want, but from my understanding of both psychology and psycopathy Usama bin Laden has fairly good grip on his mental status. While I am not a doctor I used to be very interested in this particular field.

To the extent that it allows people to exercise their natural industry, the government can be helpful. To the extent that it enforces a religious code developed centuries ago and refuses to recognize reality, the government can be very unhelpful. So again, why is it that Islamic states are such colossal failures?

Because they are theocracies. It doesn't matter what religion. They are strict theorcracies.

A prolonged period of active protest and action against the moral sewer of terrorism.

How long?

Or dig it out. But we don't know the exact location that precisely. We can only hope he is now in a cave whose entrance was collapsed by the earthquake, shooting his bodyguards so that he can breathe his last breath alone, savoring his own stench of fear while he takes his own sweet time about dying. :mrgreen:

That's lovely.

 

[Missouri Mule]

It might be more productive for you to be the change you want to see in these people. I would ask the question of any party involved.

You can be a smart ass about this all you want, but from my understanding of both psychology and psycopathy Usama bin Laden has fairly good grip on his mental status. While I am not a doctor I used to be very interested in this particular field.

Because they are theocracies. It doesn't matter what religion. They are strict theorcracies.

How long?

That's lovely.

Whoooa here. Bin Laden is most certainly not psychotic but he most assuredly is a psychopath. You ought to know that if you know anything about mental disorders.

A psychopath is in full control of his mental facilities. A psychotic person is one who sees things that are not there and hears things that are not said; such as having demons whisper in his ears; that sort of thing. A psychopath (Aka sociopath) is one who is evil and cares nothing about anyone else except for his own desires. He can close his mind to the past and feel no remorse or guilt for his actions. A perfect example would be the serial murderer Ted Bundy. Bin Laden murdered 3,000 innocent Americans on 9/11 and when he was told of this by one of his diciples he had a very satisfied smile on his face at what he had accomplished. This reminded me of the smile on Ted Bundy as he slept with his murdered victims (necrophilia).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Necrophilia

They are the same kind of people. They deserve the worst kind of punishment and I would like to have a go at him. I would truly make him sorry he had ever been born and he would worship death in the truest sense of the word and not as part of his evil perverted "religion."

 

[Diogenes]

It might be more productive for you to be the change you want to see in these people. I would ask the question of any party involved.

That's what we're doing in Afghanistan and Iraq - providing temporary security while a civilized body politic develops.

You can be a smart ass about this all you want, but from my understanding of both psychology and psycopathy Usama bin Laden has fairly good grip on his mental status. While I am not a doctor I used to be very interested in this particular field.

So what are your qualifications for your diagnosis?

Because they are theocracies. It doesn't matter what religion. They are strict theorcracies.

Agreed that theocracies are a terrible form of government, disagreed that they are all strict theocracies. Iran is a strict theocracy, as was the Taliban, but Turkey and Indonesia are secular. In between the two extremes are various levels of oppressive dictatorships with varying degrees of religious influence. Agreed also that the degree of religious influence in the government is a major factor in how backward the country is.

 

[Gandhi>Bush]

That's what we're doing in Afghanistan and Iraq - providing temporary security while a civilized body politic develops.

What we're doing in Iraq and Afghanistan is showing people that the super power of the world, the best country in the world, uses violence to solve problems. That's what we're doing.

So what are your qualifications for your diagnosis?

An avid reader and I've taken 3 college courses in the subject. In other words, my only "qualifications" for my "diagnosis" is my limited knowledge of psychology, psycopathy, and Usama bin Laden. What are your qualifications?

 

[Gandhi>Bush]

Whoooa here. Bin Laden is most certainly not psychotic but he most assuredly is a psychopath. You ought to know that if you know anything about mental disorders.

A psychopath is in full control of his mental facilities. A psychotic person is one who sees things that are not there and hears things that are not said; such as having demons whisper in his ears; that sort of thing. A psychopath (Aka sociopath) is one who is evil and cares nothing about anyone else except for his own desires. He can close his mind to the past and feel no remorse or guilt for his actions. A perfect example would be the serial murderer Ted Bundy. Bin Laden murdered 3,000 innocent Americans on 9/11 and when he was told of this by one of his diciples he had a very satisfied smile on his face at what he had accomplished. This reminded me of the smile on Ted Bundy as he slept with his murdered victims (necrophilia).

I don't think you could classify Usama bin Laden as having an anti-social personality and I think it would be a very large stretch to call him egocentric, both being the key characteristics of the sociopath or psycopath.

When it comes to having no guilt or remorse for your actions, well neither do many of our soldiers that go off to kill the enemy. That is exactly what bin Laden believes he is doing: killing the enemy.

Do you really think you could classify bin Laden as evil? Explain to me how you are defining evil.

Bin Laden believes that what he is doing is the right thing. Do you disagree with this statement?

 

[teacher]

Bin Laden believes that what he is doing is the right thing. Do you disagree with this statement?

Course not. He's doing exactly what the Koran says. That's what the rich ruling Arabs rely on.

 

[Canuck]

It'll happen sooner or later. That nuclear cloud. Think about Katrina and 9/11 rolled up all in one disaster. Then mulitiply it by a factor of 1,000 or so. By allowing these people into the country we are just needlessly risking the lives of American citizens. It is a foolish risk during wartime.

think of wtc disposal and remember it well
wether you let them in ,or, not .it is coming back at you again in technicolor!
I am white male and our familiy lived in north america ( 400+ yrs )
despite what many people may think I love america and all it's peoples



The days of North america ,being insulated from global conflict are over!
the clouds you speak of,will have been brought down upon you
by U.S. globalization !Your EYES tell YOU LIES

 

[Canuck]

bin laden is doing exactly what the Koran says. That's what the rich ruling Arabs rely on.

I AGREE
(BUSH and HIS RICH SAUDI ARABIA FIENDS of the FAMILY+CIA operative BIN LADEN (during russian iran war)war criminals,terrorists,anti American,anti North American,9/11 plotters,and more)
all rely on that


THEY NKOW YOU ALL ,will say just that!
and ARE counting on it too !

duped
hoodwinked
the harlot owns you boy !!!!!!!
YOU see through EYES that just tell you LIES

 

[teacher]

duped
hoodwinked
the harlot owns you boy !!!!!!!
YOU see through EYES that just tell you LIES

Oh goody, haiku's.

falling towers
epiphany
enter the cowboy
again safe to eat Pez

 

[teacher]

If we knew Usama bin Laden's exact location be it a cave some sort of hut, we would grab his goofy ass.

I disagree.

Dead he is a martyr. Captured he is a motivation to continue hating. He would be replaced, possibly by a new, unknown person.

Alive and whereabouts known his actions and contacts can be watched and his plans more easily thwarted. Also helps us map their organization. Leads us to previously unknown people.

It's what I would do anyway.

Logic.