Should Muslims be permitted to enter the United States

[TechDad]

So if you can't stop al of them don't try? Apperance, passport, background. Lets vet some of these people based on criteria from terrorist attacks over the last 10 years. Find a base line and work from there. I have no problem with vetting people entering my country, specially if they are determined to be high or higher risk. Is it 100%, of course not. But because it isn't is a good enough reason to do nothing?

What you are arguing for here is different that not letting Muslims in the country. Gathering intelligence, identifying those invovled in extremist organizations and working to keep them out of the country is a much different argument than banning muslims. I also think that devoting energy to the latter (a waste of time) will divert energy from the former (a worthwhile goal).

Interests........ The only ways to satisfy the people your talking about is to appease them or die. The ME is a **** hole. And it was a shithole way before we got there. What is unfeable is the idea that if your nice to them they will be nice to you.. Thats a great plan, but while your being nice to them they will be killing people throughout the world. They will be strapping bombs to there chest, leaving backpacks in trains and flying planes into buildings.

Even ignoring the debate about whether the US had anything to do with helping to make the ME a ****hole or whether its policies are insuring that it doesn't improve, there is the simple fact that as long as the ME is a hellhole it will be a strategic threat to US and western interests. Additionally, western interests can't be separated from the ME, oil is too important. With every passing year a greater portion of the oil left in the ground can be found in the ME and the US certainly isn't beating a path to alternative resources. In the big picture it is in our best interests to improve the situation in the ME.

 

[skabanger13]

It was an EXAMPLE! Do you think I was serious?

From NAMBLA's website:

"NAMBLA does not engage in any activities that violate the law, nor do we advocate that anyone else should do so."

Right there for anyone to see. Too bad. Now that they don't violate laws, are you going to make one up for them to violate?

A thief is not going to come out and say HEY look at me Im a thief! He would be arrested. A member of nambla isnt going to come forward and admit to sleeping with little boys.

 

[Missouri Mule]

Re: Pakistani girl loses nose, lips for seeking divorce

It never stops does it? Post after post after post demanding that America abandon our Constitution and way of life in order to preserve our way of life! What a pathetic concept. Of course the whole idea that we are unable to protect our freedoms without depriving ourselves of them is ignorance squared.

Here's a link to a post that I wrote yesterday addressing the immigration issue when Mule wrote that Muslims were "flooding" into the USA.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/showpost.php?p=94827&postcount=1469

Please note how few Muslims actually immigrated into the USA in 2003. The words written by Mule are anti-American and most definitely anti-Constitutional. Fear and scare tactics are being used to justify Xenophobia and bigotry. Read his words written yesterday about the Muslim religion:

Pretty darn clear as to the objectivity of those words, you know? Modus operandi for Mule seems to be to write outlandish bigoted comments about Muslims and when the meaning of his words are discussed and exposed the very next post appears to backpedal and suggest that his words were not meant to condemn the more than 1 billion Muslims on this planet. However, it does not take a Jethro (6th grade educated brain) to read these words and know that they are bigoted words that clearly expose one's true beliefs.

Do you know what demented means:


So Mule clearly wrote that Muslims are insane and that they're entire religion is malfunctioning and that Muslims, by design, are bad.

This is very, very hate-filled and of course ridiculous. To condemn more than 1 billion people for the actions of a few is totally UNAMERICAN and very wrong, IMHO. Mule writes these same words in post after post after post, in all types of ways but at the end of the day there is a common denominator too, namely words that are expressing true and deep hate for anything and everyone Muslim.

Ah yes, so Constitutional, so legal, so wise, so well thought out. The perfect solution! This type of thinking can lead to "ethnic cleansing" if it is allowed to fester.

Fortunately the words written by Mule are reserved for a very tiny minority of UNAMERICAN extremists AND will never, ever be implemented. We will all be losers if we abandon the principles that this country was founded on and that we have fought so hard to preserve throughout our history.

Why don't you get off your high horse and stop with your strawman arguments? You have made one bald lie after another claiming that I "hate Muslims", that I want to "erradicate" all Muslims and all of that claptrap.

What I said was that it is in the interest of our nation to close the door to further Muslim immigration unless they can be shown to be absolutely, positively squeaky clean. It only took 19 hijackers to kill 3,000 people. Your "small" number of Muslim immigrants to the U.S. certainly exceeds that number by a substantial number.

All of this bulloney about our "constitution" won't mean a blasted thing if we are in the process of burying or burning the corpses of a million dead Americans after bin Laden and his ilk manage to set off a nuclear device in the NYC or other large populated city. You may have a suicidal impulse. I do not. And I would argue that no sensible American does either.

There is NOTHING in the constitution about requiring that we be even handed about our immigration policies or that we allow anyone in this country if we made such a draconian decision in the interests of national security. The Constitution, contrary to your suggestion is NOT a suicide pact.

And yes, Islam is a demented religion. It was founded on evil, by a thoroughly despicable and evil man. It is not my reponsibility to whitewash this monster who created this "religion." You can, if you wish. But I won't. I'll just tell it like it is.

"We love death. The Americans love life. That is the difference between us." ... Bin Laden

 

[Kelzie]

A thief is not going to come out and say HEY look at me Im a thief! He would be arrested. A member of nambla isnt going to come forward and admit to sleeping with little boys.

Here in America, we have this little thing called proof. See, you need it in order to convict someone. Goes hand in hand with innocent until proven guilty. So someone can join as many clubs that you don't like as they want. Until they are actually proven to have committed a crime, they are free as a bird. Crazy legal system we have here, huh?

 

[skabanger13]

Here in America, we have this little thing called proof. See, you need it in order to convict someone. Goes hand in hand with innocent until proven guilty. So someone can join as many clubs that you don't like as they want. Until they are actually proven to have committed a crime, they are free as a bird. Crazy legal system we have here, huh?

There is a magazine called High Times, its about drugs. I guarantee you that 90 % of the people who write/buy this magazine do drugs. An organization whose goal is to try to make baby raping legal certainly has a very high percentage of members who participate in the ACT. They have found members of nambla that are doctors, dentists, and business execs. I dont know about the business execs but I certainly wouldnt want my children seeing a physician that was a member of nambla.

 

[Missouri Mule]

Re: Pakistani girl loses nose, lips for seeking divorce

good security would check everyone including grandmothers. WHy? somjething may be accidently concealed in them. And trust me, the CIA/FBI, if they are doing they're job right, are profiling at every instance. We just don't see it happening. Words of my dad's boss (worked for Israel's mossad for 25 years): the best security is the one no one can see.

I certainly agree with you about Israel's Mossad. If we had their capability (which we do not now have) we would be quite safe. Unfortunately, the left has ensured through their politically correct policies that we regard 80 year old grandmothers as having the same terrorist mentality as a 24 year old Muslim from Saudi Arabia, Syria, or Pakistan. It is insane. And it is likely to cost the lives of millions of innocent Americans sooner or later. All the experts in the terrorism fields have concurred with this assessment. Not a single one has demurred. It's going to happen and I'll tell you this. I WILL say "I told you so." I'm not going to let the left as embodied by the treasonous ACLU off the hook. As far as I am concerned the blood will be on their hands. It is high time that all real Americans stand up on their own two hind legs and speak out against this threat to our way of life. So long as we are led around by the nose of the politically correct crowd we are in mortal danger. That is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

 

[TimmyBoy]

Here in America, we have this little thing called proof. See, you need it in order to convict someone. Goes hand in hand with innocent until proven guilty. So someone can join as many clubs that you don't like as they want. Until they are actually proven to have committed a crime, they are free as a bird. Crazy legal system we have here, huh?

Proof is easy to come by. Just ask the FBI and the architects of the COINTELPRO program. Basically, all you need to do, is fabricate evidence in the crime lab or on innocent people, present the fabricated evidence, and a jury will convict them. Quick, clean, easy and the jury would never know the truth and oppression would have the face of legitimacy.

 

[Missouri Mule]

Proof is easy to come by. Just ask the FBI and the architects of the COINTELPRO program. Basically, all you need to do, is fabricate evidence in the crime lab or on innocent people, present the fabricated evidence, and a jury will convict them. Quick, clean, easy and the jury would never know the truth and oppression would have the face of legitimacy.

To add to this, fingerprints are less than reliable and handwriting is almost entirely unreliable. Eyewitnesses are virtually worthless. But DNA is for all intents and purposes bullet proof IF the chain of custody is properly handled.

 

[TimmyBoy]

To add to this, fingerprints are less than reliable and handwriting is almost entirely unreliable. Eyewitnesses are virtually worthless. But DNA is for all intents and purposes bullet proof IF the chain of custody is properly handled.

Chain of custody is very important in any case though. One little mishap in the Chain of custody then your case can be through. Put the evidence through a supression hearing. Polygraphs are also extremely unreliable and generally speaking, inadmissable in court.

 

[nkgupta80]

I certainly agree with you about Israel's Mossad. If we had their capability (which we do not now have) we would be quite safe. Unfortunately, the left has ensured through their politically correct policies that we regard 80 year old grandmothers as having the same terrorist mentality as a 24 year old Muslim from Saudi Arabia, Syria, or Pakistan. It is insane. And it is likely to cost the lives of millions of innocent Americans sooner or later. All the experts in the terrorism fields have concurred with this assessment. Not a single one has demurred. It's going to happen and I'll tell you this. I WILL say "I told you so." I'm not going to let the left as embodied by the treasonous ACLU off the hook. As far as I am concerned the blood will be on their hands. It is high time that all real Americans stand up on their own two hind legs and speak out against this threat to our way of life. So long as we are led around by the nose of the politically correct crowd we are in mortal danger. That is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

you didn't understand my post. Best security is the one not seen. I asked him the same question... I personally think profiling is essential, and I asked him during a discussion why Americans don't do it. He said political correctness. But THEN he added that political correctness prob doesn't stop ur FBI/CIA anyways. You don't have to see the security in action for it to be there.

I believe that the security all around us does profile, we just don't see it blatantly in our faces. If you really think that the security you see at the checkpoints of an airport is the main security ur mistaken...

 

[nkgupta80]

19 hijackers killed 3000. The fact that these 19 kids could take over an airliner itself shows a major flaw in our security. These hijackers could have been any ethnicity. If we had secured our airlines, just simple checkpoints like we have now, this would have never happened. I doubt that stopping all muslims from coming into this country would have covered for this major flaw in security.

Let the innocent muslims in. It is our job to tighten our national security to stop radicals from causing mass havoc. And political correctness goes only so far to hinder our security agencies. Frankly, if no one knows about it, they'll do it, they'll profile, play on instinct, do whatever makes this country safe. We just odn't have to see it.

 

[Kelzie]

There is a magazine called High Times, its about drugs. I guarantee you that 90 % of the people who write/buy this magazine do drugs. An organization whose goal is to try to make baby raping legal certainly has a very high percentage of members who participate in the ACT. They have found members of nambla that are doctors, dentists, and business execs. I dont know about the business execs but I certainly wouldnt want my children seeing a physician that was a member of nambla.

And have you noticed that High Times is LEGAL? That's because you can think about illegal events all you want. You cannot be arrested until you're convicted. Deal with it. If you don't like it, move to China. They arrest plenty of people for thinking the wrong thing.

 

[Calm2Chaos]

:roll: I was joking. I'd be pretty lonely if all the meat eaters were in jail. My point was you can't jail someone cause they think differently than you.

AWWWWW ... well ... Damm

Are you sure.... Cause there a few I would like to throw into jail, or under it.

I understand not throwing in jail for thinking different then me I guess.

 

[Missouri Mule]

Chain of custody is very important in any case though. One little mishap in the Chain of custody then your case can be through. Put the evidence through a supression hearing. Polygraphs are also extremely unreliable and generally speaking, inadmissable in court.

As they should be. A good pathological liar can ace one of these tests. I discussed this with a military polygraph specialist and he confirmed this fact as I had long suspected.

We used to send DNA off for paternity testing. The swabs are put inside a tamper proof container that if it is opened before it is tested renders it null and void. They are for all intents and purposes the final word. The only exception I am aware of may be with identical twins.

 

[shuamort]

Mod Note

Due to the sheer length of this thread and its strain on the server, we're going to be locking this thread. Missouri Mule, please feel free to start PT. 2 of this thread and we can add a link to it here.

Thanks,
MGMT

/Mod Note

 

[shuamort]

Here's a link to the new thread.
Should Muslims be permitted to enter the United States
http://www.debatepolitics.com/showthread.php?t=4141