Should Muslims be permitted to enter the United States

[LaMidRighter]

I read that too. Upsetting huh? I don't think hydrogen will ever be a viable fuel source for several reasons. One: it takes waayy more hydrogen than oil to say...run a car. The hydrogen tank would take up the majority of the car. However, this is a problem that could be overcome. What probably can never be fixed is that hydrogen is extremely flamable when exposed to oxygen. While we could maybe, maybe, make the fuel tank so reinforced that it wouldn't spring a leak during a crash, just the slightest rip in any of the tubing transporting the hydrogen would mean an instant explosion. Way too risky.

Good point. I think the current system being researched would use a simple chemical reaction to seperate the hydrogen, not sure exactly how it is supposed to work, but many scientists think that it is in fact possible.

 

[Kelzie]

Good point. I think the current system being researched would use a simple chemical reaction to seperate the hydrogen, not sure exactly how it is supposed to work, but many scientists think that it is in fact possible.

I agree that eventually we might find a way to seperate hydrogen that would actually produce energy instead of absorbing it (last I heard they were still running currents through water, takes a lot more energy than it produces, but I haven't checked in a while). I think the biggest problem will be harnessing that energy in a safe manner.

 

[Kelzie]

Why were we talking about this again? I just re-noticed the topic of the thread. Definitely not alternative energy. :lol:

 

[Surenderer]

but they are not extremists! They are Muslims thats all.

They hate Israel because it is Jewish. They don't like other religions and because America is helping them. It's a circle. Also how can we possibly fix the poverty problem over there without taking out more dictators or something more wars thats what your againest isn't it? Or are you saying the U.S. should destroy all it's nucs and destroy it's economy?

The irony of this thread is that your very posts are extremist views....talking about kicking out 5 million Americans who abor terrorism as much if not more than you do (after all it is a direct reflection upon Muslims) is extremist by definition.Did you know that 400 Muslims also died on 9-11? Terrorists dont care who they kill whether it be Muslim Jew or whatever.

 

[CanadianGuy]

The irony of this thread is that your very posts are extremist views....talking about kicking out 5 million Americans who abor terrorism as much if not more than you do (after all it is a direct reflection upon Muslims) is extremist by definition.Did you know that 400 Muslims also died on 9-11? Terrorists dont care who they kill whether it be Muslim Jew or whatever.

Umm actually I disagreed with this idea read my posts before you say things like that. It was me and Ghandi>Bush who were aruging about why muslims hate america and in that statement israel.


They don't care because they think they are also sacrificing them selves as well.

 

[vmw]

We are not at war with Muslims. We are at war with terrorists. There are extremists that hate us, extremists that love us, and there are moderates that really don't feel one way or the other. Our current war has elimated the moderates. If you would wish to decrease the size of those that like us, you've got the right idea. I think this a terrible idea.

Terrorists that happen to be muslims. Where did I say in my original quote that I wanted to eliminate anyone? I thought the question was should we permit muslims into this country? My point was since the terrorist are muslims and I or even you couldn't tell me which ones are and which one aren't terrorists. I assume since the question implies, do we give muslims permission to enter this country it's because they're not citizens. Under the circumstances I don't see the great need to jeopordize our security just to be nice.

 

[Missouri Mule]

I think some may have misinterpreted the question or I misinterpreted their answer. The question is should Muslims be allowed into the United States?

Let me ask this question. Suppose were in WWII and a number of confirmed Nazis were trying to enter the United States to live among us. Would we stand for that? Committed Muslims continue to stream into the U.S. and as we can all affirm as true, virtually all terrorism today is being committed by Muslims. That's simply a fact. That being the case, do we want to add to a growing danger? For all we know most of the mosques in the U.S. are sanctuaries where clandestine plans are being drawn up and/or directed by the minions of bin Laden to destroy our "decadent" way of western civilization. Civil libertarians say that to take away the rights of anyone or to profile is to throw away our liberties. But the first liberty is the right to life and pursuit of happiness as we see fit and within our laws.

Do Muslims have the same point of view? According to the many statements of Muslim leaders they do not believe that infidel's lives are of "any value" and that if we do not convert to their way of life we are fair game to be murdered in the pursue of a worldwide Islamic theocracy. Not all Muslims subscribe to this fanatical point of view but even of 1/10% of the Muslim world's population believe this we are talking about tens of millions who would destroy western civilization.

Therefore I ask the simple question. Should we even allow them into our society? They don't want us in the Middle East. I've always believed that what's good for the goose is good for the gander. We get out of the Middle East and leave it for the Muslims. We should walk, crawl or take a bicycle rather than pay one red cent to the oil potentates of the Middle East who have us by the short hairs. I'm sick of the death and mayhem, the sawing off of heads, the blowing up of anything and everything all in the name of Allah. I don't give a damn about their "root causes" and all of the apologists who excuse their behavior. They don't like us. We are the "Great Satan." Fine. I don't like them either. Get out of here and we will get out of there. Fair's fair. Am I wrong?

 

[Surenderer]

Umm actually I disagreed with this idea read my posts before you say things like that. It was me and Ghandi>Bush who were aruging about why muslims hate america and in that statement israel.


They don't care because they think they are also sacrificing them selves as well.

I linked the wrong post....my bad

 

[CanadianGuy]

I linked the wrong post....my bad

lol it's ok

 

[rudy0908]

You're gonna love this; according to the A.P. a study released by Cornell U. and also Berkely have found that it takes more energy to produce these alternative fuels than their usage gives out - it takes 29% more fossil fuel energy to produce ethanol than it puts out, Biodiesel breakdowns - switch grass 45% more, wood - 57% more, and soybeans - 27% more.
this means that switching to the "alternative fuels" would actually increase demand on foreign oil and in fact could drive the price up more. Instead of alternative fuel development, why not drill more on U.S. soil until Hydrogen fuel can be produce efficiently enough to be a viable solution.

Yeah, I read that too. I wasn't referring to biofuels specifically, but other forms of alternative fuels such as hybrid cars or hydrogen. I saw a Nova report on hydrogen a while ago and they had found ways to limit and control the explosiveness of hydrogen, but mass-marketing it will still take a while.

Not true, terrorism flourishes where only a single message is obtainable, which usually happens in dictatorships(frmr Iraq, Syria, Libya, et. al) and theocracies(Afghanistan), it has nothing to do with money except for the fact that money buys the tools to accomplish terrorists actions.

That's true too, but I still think poverty has something to do with it. It seems that fundamentalism and terrorism would attract those with little to look forward to in this life due to their poor living conditions.

 

[Missouri Mule]

For those who believe that Islam is a benign force, read on. The naivete of the left and the politically correct crowd continues to amaze me. Evidently they believe we should engage in a circular firing squad as they continue to ignore the evidence. So my question again, should we foolisly allow Muslims into the United States under the banner of "tolerance"? The energy discussions can continue elsewhere.
====================================
A Real Bombshell

By Howard Kurtz
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, July 19, 2005; 8:12 AM

I'm going to take a brief break from the Rove wars to talk about the real war.

Maybe I'm just a glass-half-empty kinda guy, but I found some recent poll numbers on attitudes toward terrorism pretty depressing.

Others are spinning the study from the Pew Global Attitudes Project as good news because it shows a drop in support among Muslims in a number of countries for Osama and suicide bombers.

Captain Ed at Captain's Quarters declares:

"This demonstrates that Bush's policies of attacking terrorists where they have hidden themselves and demanding the liberalization of the Arabic world has had a huge, positive impact. Despite the carping of how Iraq has created terrorists in Muslim nations, the unmasking of Islamofascism as a bloodthirsty movement perfectly happy with killing fellow Muslims by the hundreds to make its point has destroyed its credibility. In contrast, the success of the Iraqi elections, followed by the popular democratic uprising against Syria in Lebanon and the demand for free election in Egypt, has shown Arabs and Muslims that democracy and pluralism works."

Washington Monthly's Kevin Drum notes the upside:

"Take a look at the three Muslim countries that have been hit with major al-Qaeda bombing attacks since 2002 -- Morocco, Indonesia, and Turkey. Support for suicide bombing is down to 15% or less in all three countries and, even more dramatically, confidence in Osama bin Laden has been cut nearly in half. Attacking Muslim countries appears to have backfired badly on al-Qaeda."

That's true, and encouraging. Progress is obviously going to be slow in the global struggle of ideas. But Drum does note some other, less inspiring figures in this WashPost piece that caught my eye when I read it:

"The proportion that expressed confidence in the al Qaeda leader dropped from almost half to about a quarter in Morocco, and from 58 percent to 37 percent in Indonesia. Bin Laden's standing went up slightly in Pakistan, to 51 percent, and in Jordan, to 60 percent. . . .

"Jordan was the only country where the majority surveyed -- 57 percent -- still support terrorist acts in defense of Islam, possibly because the majority Palestinian population is tied to the conflict with Israel, Kohut said."

Think about that for a minute. If the poll is even reasonably accurate, more than a third of those Muslims living in Indonesia have confidence in a man who masterminded a plot of flying airplanes into buildings, killing 3,000 innocent Americans, and has probably inspired the cells that perpetrated the bombings in London and Madrid. Five out of 10 Muslims in Pakistan, which is supposed to be our ally in the war on terror, have confidence in a mass murderer who kills innocent men, women and children. Six out of 10 in Jordan.

This is hard for me to process. I understand the way anti-American sentiment gets whipped up, Muslim grievances toward the west, animosity toward Israel and the rest. But I've always thought, perhaps naively, that most people in these communities were not cheering for indiscriminate killing by terrorists; That, however strong their grievances, support for bombings on buses and trains and in restaurants and nightclubs came mainly from extremists with little regard for human life. And in these communities, if Pew is right, that's clearly not the case. And that is truly sobering news...

(Snip)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/linkset/2005/04/11/LI2005041100587.html

 

[CanadianGuy]

Five out of 10 Muslims in Pakistan, which is supposed to be our ally in the war on terror, have confidence in a mass murderer who kills innocent men, women and children. Six out of 10 in Jordan.[/B]

I have many pakistany friends who hat america and Bush and they are not changing any time soon they definatley won't if you angered them by not letting muslims into america! I don't think stopping them from coming in will save you from a terrorist attack. Especially when they could sneak through Mexico or the crappy border control in Canada, it won't work. I am beting that there are a number of terrorists inside america already who are just waiting to recruit more using something like this.

Also have you heard of the killing of terrorists in Pakistan it is no doubt America putting pressure on Pakistan, behind the scenes, to do something.

I have a question. Do we not have any muslims on this board or something or do they not want to say anything?

 

[Surenderer]

I have many pakistany friends who hat america and Bush and they are not changing any time soon they definatley won't if you angered them by not letting muslims into america! I don't think stopping them from coming in will save you from a terrorist attack. Especially when they could sneak through Mexico or the crappy border control in Canada, it won't work. I am beting that there are a number of terrorists inside america already who are just waiting to recruit more using something like this.

Also have you heard of the killing of terrorists in Pakistan it is no doubt America putting pressure on Pakistan, behind the scenes, to do something.

I have a question. Do we not have any muslims on this board or something or do they not want to say anything?

Out of 20 votes in these polls 9 people have said that Muslim's shouldnt be allowed to or they dont know if Muslims should live in this country.thats 45% so maybe I should send that poll to every country arond the world and say that 45% of all polled Americans say that Muslims should not be allowed to live in America. Sounds like alot doesnt it? Sounds like a misrepresentation? I wonder how many of those in Muslim countries polled were asked "who do you fear more Bush or Osama" most would say Bush but does that make them pro-Osama? Those same polled in Muslim countries also dont believe that Osama had anything to do with 9-11 so to say that they support a man who killed 3000 innocent people isnt really quite accurate(alot of people of this board think the same also)....Dont trust polls


peace

 

[CanadianGuy]

Out of 20 votes in these polls 9 people have said that Muslim's shouldnt be allowed to or they dont know if Muslims should live in this country.thats 45% so maybe I should send that poll to every country arond the world and say that 45% of all polled Americans say that Muslims should not be allowed to live in America. Sounds like alot doesnt it? Sounds like a misrepresentation? I wonder how many of those in Muslim countries polled were asked "who do you fear more Bush or Osama" most would say Bush but does that make them pro-Osama? Those same polled in Muslim countries also dont believe that Osama had anything to do with 9-11 so to say that they support a man who killed 3000 innocent people isnt really quite accurate(alot of people of this board think the same also)....Dont trust polls


peace

ok but how did that have to do with my post?

 

[Surenderer]

ok but how did that have to do with my post?

My bad was meant for Missouri's reponse

 

[CanadianGuy]

Actually they started this year. It was around the Iraq elections maybe I'm wrong sorry if I was.

lol i was right hahaha! "Saudi Arabia and Palestine both had elections" :mrgreen:

 

[ShamMol]

You know, what...I will actually answer the question...

YES

 

[rudy0908]

This is hard for me to process. I understand the way anti-American sentiment gets whipped up, Muslim grievances toward the west, animosity toward Israel and the rest. But I've always thought, perhaps naively, that most people in these communities were not cheering for indiscriminate killing by terrorists; That, however strong their grievances, support for bombings on buses and trains and in restaurants and nightclubs came mainly from extremists with little regard for human life. And in these communities, if Pew is right, that's clearly not the case. And that is truly sobering news...

I must agree. Although I presently support letting Muslims into the country, I've never seen numbers like these before, so I must reconsider my position. Thanks for providing actual sources and numbers to back your arguement.

One point, though: I don't see how these numbers have anything to do with Bush. The fact that major declines in Osama's popularity have come in countries attacked by al-Queda points the credit/blame towards al-Queda, not Bush.

 

[rudy0908]

I don't think stopping them from coming in will save you from a terrorist attack. Especially when they could sneak through Mexico or the crappy border control in Canada, it won't work.

Are you saying that since they'll get in anyway, we might as well just give up and let them in? That's some twisted logic.

 

[Missouri Mule]

Out of 20 votes in these polls 9 people have said that Muslim's shouldnt be allowed to or they dont know if Muslims should live in this country.thats 45% so maybe I should send that poll to every country arond the world and say that 45% of all polled Americans say that Muslims should not be allowed to live in America. Sounds like alot doesnt it? Sounds like a misrepresentation? I wonder how many of those in Muslim countries polled were asked "who do you fear more Bush or Osama" most would say Bush but does that make them pro-Osama? Those same polled in Muslim countries also dont believe that Osama had anything to do with 9-11 so to say that they support a man who killed 3000 innocent people isnt really quite accurate(alot of people of this board think the same also)....Dont trust polls


peace

This is one of the many reasons I want nothing to do with Muslims. Not only is their religion supremely evil as evidenced by the constant terrorism as advocated by the founder of this warped cult but the advocates are composed of fools if any of them truly believe that bin Laden didn't engineer 9/11. Why should we dilute the gene pool in America by allowing such imbeciles into the country?

And BTW, I'm sick of this "peace" business that Muslims always employ. This is the most unpeaceful religion (if it can truly be called that) since mankind came out of the swamps. I'm sick of the constant mayhem, murder of innocents in the name of Allah. Sick of it. And any sane person would be as well.

 

[rudy0908]

This is one of the many reasons I want nothing to do with Muslims. Not only is their religion supremely evil as evidenced by the constant terrorism as advocated by the founder of this warped cult but the advocates are composed of fools if any of them truly believe that bin Laden didn't engineer 9/11. Why should we dilute the gene pool in America by allowing such imbeciles into the country?

And BTW, I'm sick of this "peace" business that Muslims always employ. This is the most unpeaceful religion (if it can truly be called that) since mankind came out of the swamps. I'm sick of the constant mayhem, murder of innocents in the name of Allah. Sick of it. And any sane person would be as well.

Couldn't the same thing be said about Christians during the Crusades? Didn't they kill innocent people, attack without provocation? Christians also killed many Muslims in the Crusades and Native Americans during their colonization of the Americas, many in the name of religion. Weren't they supported by Christian fools everywhere? Doesn't that make Christianity a "supremely evil" religion, according to your standards?

 

[Missouri Mule]

Couldn't the same thing be said about Christians during the Crusades? Didn't they kill innocent people, attack without provocation? Christians also killed many Muslims in the Crusades and Native Americans during their colonization of the Americas, many in the name of religion. Weren't they supported by Christian fools everywhere? Doesn't that make Christianity a "supremely evil" religion, according to your standards?

I've heard this argument over and over and I'm not impressed. What happened several centuries ago hardly applies today and the words of Christ and Mohammad differ in all degrees. (BTW, I'm not a religious but I can read.)

What we are talking about is the desire of the Islamic fanatics to destroy western civilization. That includes you and me. Christianity no matter how far it veered off course in the past never threatened the whole of mankind. The nuclear bomb didn't exist then, biological and chemical bombs didn't exist and suicide/homicide bombers weren't running wild as they are among the Islamists. Can you think of any Christian suicide/homicide bombers in all the history of the world? Offhand I can't. Worlds of difference.

Bluntly stated, I believe that Islam is a malignant cancer that is metastasizing while we sit and debate this issue. Sooner or later the bin Ladens of the world will obtain that nuclear bomb and we'll have to bury millions of dead innocents. Then I'll reask this question and I'll predict that it'll be 100% to ban further Muslim immigration to the U.S. Would I be wrong?

 

[JustineCredible]

The sound of those who want closed boarders:
"Well, time to call in da demolishin crews. Gotta git busy tearing down dat silly statue on that island in New York. You know da one wit dat big torch, wearin a toga and holdin' onto that bok thing?
Gotta git rid of dat, it just EncerAges dose dirty, evil, Amirika-hatin' Muslims!
Amirika shood be jist fer us reel amirikans. Not dem towlheads! "
That's what you people sound like!

You should all be ashamed of yourselves!

Most of your parents, grandparents and great grand parents all immigrated here from somewhere else!
They all wanted a new life, the American dream! They wanted to be free from the tyranny, hatred, poverty and starvation of their homelands!

And you two-faced bigots are even toying with the idea of closing our boarders?

Tsk, tsk! :naughty

 

[Gandhi>Bush]

I've heard this argument over and over and I'm not impressed. What happened several centuries ago hardly applies today and the words of Christ and Mohammad differ in all degrees. (BTW, I'm not a religious but I can read.)

Muhammed is not the islamic equivalent of Christ.... Christ is a part of Islam...

What we are talking about is the desire of the Islamic fanatics to destroy western civilization. That includes you and me. Christianity no matter how far it veered off course in the past never threatened the whole of mankind. The nuclear bomb didn't exist then, biological and chemical bombs didn't exist and suicide/homicide bombers weren't running wild as they are among the Islamists. Can you think of any Christian suicide/homicide bombers in all the history of the world? Offhand I can't. Worlds of difference.

Eric Rudolph

Bluntly stated, I believe that Islam is a malignant cancer that is metastasizing while we sit and debate this issue. Sooner or later the bin Ladens of the world will obtain that nuclear bomb and we'll have to bury millions of dead innocents. Then I'll reask this question and I'll predict that it'll be 100% to ban further Muslim immigration to the U.S. Would I be wrong?

How about you we put all the Muslims into prisons? A littel persecution maybe? These statements, these ideas, do not help deter terrorism. Terrorists are only a small percentage of the Muslim population as a whole. They are the extreme of a conervative Islam. There are those that like America, and those that don't, and those that are neutral. The whole of religion is not evil.

 

[Missouri Mule]

Muhammed is not the islamic equivalent of Christ.... Christ is a part of Islam...

Eric Rudolph

How about you we put all the Muslims into prisons? A littel persecution maybe? These statements, these ideas, do not help deter terrorism. Terrorists are only a small percentage of the Muslim population as a whole. They are the extreme of a conervative Islam. There are those that like America, and those that don't, and those that are neutral. The whole of religion is not evil.

Eric Rudolph, the poster boy for Islamist apologists. That's getting a bit old too. This creep is going away forever and certainly doesn't represent Christianity or any real Americans.

I never said any such thing that all Muslims ought to be rounded up and thrown into prison. (That's a silly self-serving straw argument you threw in there.) However, if they don't like our values and don't want to be loyal Americans then they ought to pack their bags and get out; just like we have been asked to leave the ME. What is good for the goose is good for the gander.

As to Islam being like any other religion, obviously you don't know the origins of Islam and the psychopath who founded Islam. He got that religion off on its current form by lopping off the heads of 700 men at Medina.

According to Muhammad’s sacralized biography by Ibn Ishaq, Muhammad himself sanctioned the massacre of the Qurayza, a vanquished Jewish tribe. He appointed an "arbiter" who soon rendered this concise verdict: the men were to be put to death, the women and children sold into slavery, the spoils to be divided among the Muslims. Muhammad ratified this judgment stating that it was a decree of God pronounced from above the Seven Heavens. Thus some 600 to 900 men from the Qurayza were lead on Muhammad’s order to the Market of Medina. Trenches were dug and the men were beheaded, and their decapitated corpses buried in the trenches while Muhammad watched in attendance. Women and children were sold into slavery, a number of them being distributed as gifts among Muhammad’s companions, and Muhammad chose one of the Qurayza women (Rayhana) for himself. The Qurayza’s property and other possessions (including weapons) were also divided up as additional "booty" among the Muslims, to support further jihad campaigns.

http://knowislam.info/drupal/beheadings


Decapitation is actually a holy sacrament of Islam. When did Christianity ever celebrate such savagry and when did Christ ever advocate such evil? You should have heard old Zarqawi shout "Allah Akbar" as he slowly sawed off Nick Berg's head off and then danced around like a damned fool and evil monster that he is. Are these people to be compared with Christians? Gimme a break.
-----------------------------------------------------
Here is what France says about fanatical Islamism. I just may change my mind about France.

French Minister Vows To Expel Radical Muslim Leaders
Breaking News ie ^ | 7/19/05

Interior minister Nicolas Sarkozy today vowed that France would have “zero tolerance” for radical Muslim imams, and would take a systematic approach to expelling prayer leaders who preached hatred.

In response to London’s deadly bomb attacks, France plans to be more severe with Muslim preachers “who don’t respect our values and who are not French,” Sarkozy said in an interview with the Liberation newspaper.

“We must be much more severe with those who enlist young suicide bombers,” he added, without elaborating.

“I will step up procedures to forfeit the nationality of French imams who make violent and fundamentalist speeches. It will be zero tolerance!”

Legislation passed last year in France allows non-citizens to be deported for inciting “discrimination, hatred or violence” against any group. At least five Islamic clerics have been expelled.

Sarkozy also reiterated calls for better surveillance of mosques known to draw Islamic extremists, and said France needed to do a better job of integrating the country’s five-million strong Muslim population.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/2005/07/19/story212419.html