Should minimum wage be abolished?

[shrubnose]

Personal responsibility. I'd wager that guidance counselors weren't really responsible for most of the decisions made to piss away their education on something like a liberal arts degree.

I agree.

 

[shrubnose]

Minimum wage should be increased to $100/hour. Imagine how much joy there would be once that news was announced. The world needs more joy.

Implementation? Well, it would have been fun while it lasted.

Excellent idea.

And it won't cost me a nickel.

 

[captainawesome]

Forced labor through bondage is hardly equivalent to voluntary labor.

Good thing I didn't. I simply pointed out business wants to pay as little as possible morality is irrelevant.

 

[captainawesome]

except that, unlike with paid employees, slave owners had to pay to feed, house and clothe their slaves. it was hardly "free" labor. the difference is that slavery was involuntary labor.

in today's market, it is cheaper to pay minimum wage than it is to provide food, housing, clothing and get "free" labor

oh so you admit minimum wage is even below American slave standards of living. lol Capitalism is morally bankrupt.

 

[Kushinator]

It also eliminates jobs that simply aren't even worth paying minimum wage.

This is a good thing! In order to maintain the productivity (or increase it!) of a constantly developing labor market, our dependence on low skill/low wage labor must subside considerably. I am not saying that LS/LW labor representation is increasing on a historic level; there are clearly less and less low end jobs as time goes on (as a percentage of the total labor force). However, considerable wage inequality has become an issue. This is especially true in regards to wage differentials between lower and middle class households.


Minimum wages incentivize up-skilling!

 

[The Baron]

I am curious what the users of this forum have to say about the federal minimum wage. Should it be abolished, raised, or kept the same and why?

The minimum wage should be abolished as it artificially raises the cost of labor, raises unemployment and because the federal government has no right to establish a minimum wage.

 

[OscarB63]

oh so you admit minimum wage is even below American slave standards of living. lol Capitalism is morally bankrupt.

what part of "in today's market" are you too thick to understand?

 

[Kushinator]

what part of "in today's market" are you too thick to understand?

Doesn't make it desirable....

 

[CRUE CAB]

I think the wage should be abolished and workers should make about $2 an hour at most. How else are we going to enusre corporate profits and compete with China?

No problem, I would just rob banks.

 

[Hard Truth]

I support the minimum wage. I see no reason to trust the private sector to pay reasonable wages. Look at the condition of workers in other countries. An ideal minimum wage should be tied to a real cost of living, which suggests that it needs to be regional. Overall, the current system of both federal and state minimum wages is as good as we can expect at this time in the USA. Organizing labor internationally to advocate for themselves is the best long-term strategy


Somewhat off topic-we need to look at shorter work weeks as a strategy for greater well-being and prosperity.

 

[OscarB63]

Doesn't make it desirable....

who said it was?

 

[Samhain]

Excellent idea.

And it won't cost me a nickel.

You must live off the grid.

 

[Samhain]

Get rid of it. 16-18 years ago when I worked min wage, I got a raise due to being a good worker, and less than 2 months later, the other schmucks on the job got the same "raise" because Clinton raised the min wage. Got me so ticked off I quit the job and took a job in construction which made me work even harder, but got me more than min wage.

 

[OscarB63]

Get rid of it. 16-18 years ago when I worked min wage, I got a raise due to being a good worker, and less than 2 months later, the other schmucks on the job got the same "raise" because Clinton raised the min wage. Got me so ticked off I quit the job and took a job in construction which made me work even harder, but got me more than min wage.

paying people more for doing the same ****ty job only encourages people to stay unskilled and uneducated and working in a ****ty job. minimum wage jobs should be, at best, a starting point for a career...not a career in themselves.

 

[shrubnose]

You must live off the grid.

I don't have any cash invested in the USA.

 

[Samhain]

I don't have any cash invested in the USA.

I would think that a 10x increase in base US wage would have a worldwide ripple effect, but that's a different topic.

 

[Henrin]

No, I am not assuming that at all. While it is true, more unskilled workers could find employment if there were no minimum wage law. Instead of having to pay 1 unskilled worker with 9$/hour or whatever it is... you could hire 4 unskilled workers with 2$ an hour. But does that really help the unskilled workers? Sure, more get hired... but working for 2$/hour is no way to make a living in the USA. Such a wage is fitting for the poorest of South American or Latin American countries, or Africa.. or India. Not the USA.

The problem is that there are too many unskilled workers in the USA.

Why would wages go down to two dollars an hour? The worst that could happen is that wages for unskilled labor just wouldn't increase as quickly, but that would be marginal at best.

 

[captainawesome]

Why would wages go down to two dollars an hour? The worst that could happen is that wages for unskilled labor just wouldn't increase as quickly, but that would be marginal at best.

The worst that could happen is children rolling cigars for a dollar a day again.

 

[Henrin]

The worst that could happen is children rolling cigars for a dollar a day again.

How does ending minimum wage laws end child labor laws? Why would sending your children to work all of sudden be culturally acceptable and something most parents would do?

 

[captainawesome]

How does ending minimum wage laws end child labor laws? Why would sending your children to work all of sudden be culturally acceptable and something most parents would do?

Why should government have any standards is the logic. Government has no right to say kids can't work. If both parents make 4.25 the kid will have to.

Government should also end OSHA. If a specific employee has concern about safety perhaps a safer career is in order.

Why should government mandate safe workplaces the workers work there they should pay for it?

 

[jaeger19]

Min wage should not exist in a free market, by definition. A society where it does exist is not a free market.

Regardless, the practical benefit of such laws (assuming they're rigidly enforced, which they're not) is the upgrading of wages in a monopsonistic labor market.

From a libertarian perspective, the relevant question to ask is why does a labor market become a monopsony. Typically, that happens solely because of

1) Bureaucratic restrictions/regulations (license fees, insurance requirements, taxes, etc.) on the entry of businesses into the market. In many cases, those regulations have nothing to do w/the legal liabilities that business may incur, but are simply imposed by a state or other government entity.

2) Inability to access credit due to legal restrictions (i. e. unrelated to creditworthiness of the applicant).

In a pure free market (where the capital resources were distributed prior to the initiation of that market), neither of the above 2 conditions exist, so monopsonies and monopolies are unlikely to form, so min wage wouldn't be needed in such a system.

Just to point out.. not true.. monopolies have existed because they are advantageous to the company involved. The end result of unfettered capitalism.. is a monopoly... in fact it could be argued that the end result of unfettered capitalism is fascism.. where the state and the monopoly are difficult to distinguish.

The problem with the libertarian view is that the view is unaware that there are multiple examples of freedom being taken away by free market workings. Slavery was a response to a free market condition. It was not the result of government, it was the result of greedy people who found that the best way for them to get ahead was to enslave other people.

AND people forget that at times in our country.. some workers were not paid a real wage.. some companies paid their workers in company script. and were forced to buy things at the company store.. and at the end of a long days work.. they ended up owing more to the company than they had earned.

Thats a fact in our history. Now some say those conditions could never exist in America again.. but the fact is, the same companies that manage to pay minimum or more wage in America.. are among the multinationals that when they go to other countries.. produce the sweat shops, the child labor and the abysmal wages in those countries.

Spend some time in third world nations and you will understand why minimum wage is a strength of the American economy.

 

[Henrin]

Just to point out.. not true.. monopolies have existed because they are advantageous to the company involved. The end result of unfettered capitalism.. is a monopoly... in fact it could be argued that the end result of unfettered capitalism is fascism.. where the state and the monopoly are difficult to distinguish.

Monopolies are the result of the government, not capitalism.

 

[jaeger19]

Monopolies are the result of the government, not capitalism.

no.. they are the result of unfettered capitalism and free market. Its the result of the desire for market share...

 

[Henrin]

no.. they are the result of unfettered capitalism and free market. Its the result of the desire for market share...

No, monopolies are one of the many results of protectionist policies by the government. Be that protecting ideas, protecting companies from foreign competition, zoning laws, or some other means.

 

[jaeger19]

No, monopolies are one of the many results of protectionist policies by the government. Be that protecting ideas, protecting companies from foreign competition, zoning laws, or some other means.

Sorry.. but no.. monopolies have existed without government influences.. from the salt trade thousands of years ago to coal from wales in the 20th century.. to the oil industry in America and the steel trusts...

Its the result of continuing winner takes all capitalism. no doubt that in todays world.. a large company can gain a monopoly by manipulating government... but that's just another facet of competition in an unfettered free market.