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Should minimum wage be abolished?

polisciguy

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I am curious what the users of this forum have to say about the federal minimum wage. Should it be abolished, raised, or kept the same and why?
 

SapphireSpire

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I would prefer to get rid of it but as long as employers have a monopsonistic advantage in wage negotiations it's necessary to keep the peace.

Labor monopsonies are a side effect of manufacturing monopolies. We can't get rid of minimum wages without also getting rid of IP. That way individuals will be free to quit their jobs and employ themselves while their employers lose their captive markets and go out of business.
 
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Rainman05

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unskilled workers need a minimum wage.
 

Northern Light

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No, for the reason that it gives too much power to employers, and America should avoid slave labor. I don't care if $2/hr is technically "not slavery", it's de facto slavery. People will have to work 24 hours a day for a pittance, like in Chinese or Malaysian factories.

But I suppose some Americans are just racing to give up our standard of living, all because someone spoodfed them the notion that poor people have it too good.

Our race to the bottom will never make us competitive with China. They have 1.4 billion people, and no human rights. We just shouldn't bother.
 

Henrin

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As for the question, yes, but I think we need to do a few other things before we do away with the minimum wage.
 

ChunkySalsa

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Raising it causes inflation, but not enough to completely negate the increased money in the hands of the working poor. More money in the hands of citizens with the highest marginal propensity to spend will remedy the economy's sluggish demand. The process essentially takes money away from everyone else through inflation, so I'd balance it out by cutting taxes for the middle class (while thumbing my nose at the super-rich assholes who've bought both the Democrats and the Republicans).
 

shrubnose

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I am curious what the users of this forum have to say about the federal minimum wage. Should it be abolished, raised, or kept the same and why?



It should be raised to a living wage.
 

Rainman05

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You're assuming it helps them.
No, I am not assuming that at all. While it is true, more unskilled workers could find employment if there were no minimum wage law. Instead of having to pay 1 unskilled worker with 9$/hour or whatever it is... you could hire 4 unskilled workers with 2$ an hour. But does that really help the unskilled workers? Sure, more get hired... but working for 2$/hour is no way to make a living in the USA. Such a wage is fitting for the poorest of South American or Latin American countries, or Africa.. or India. Not the USA.

The problem is that there are too many unskilled workers in the USA.
 

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I think the wage should be abolished and workers should make about $2 an hour at most. How else are we going to enusre corporate profits and compete with China?
 

Torrent

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I think the wage should be abolished and workers should make about $2 an hour at most. How else are we going to enusre corporate profits and compete with China?
I think Min Wage should be abolished but a max wage limit? (I will assume hyperbole but anwer anyway) There is no competeing with China in Unskilled worker department. It for the most part has unlimited work force that they neither care about or for.

Min wage just assumes that all business large and small will pay little to nothing for every worker unless forced by goverment. That Coprations don't ever try to keep good staff by offering better pay or benifits. And why this is true in some cases its not universal.
 

Papa bull

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I think the wage should be abolished and workers should make about $2 an hour at most. How else are we going to enusre corporate profits and compete with China?
Minimum wage should be abolished. Minimum wage is an inflationary job killer. Some people have the ridiculous idea in their heads that without a minimum wage law, employers would make everyone work for nothing. Fact is that very few jobs are minimum wage, so clearly, most people's salaries aren't dependent on minimum wage laws making employers pay them fairly. It also eliminates jobs that simply aren't even worth paying minimum wage. If some coffee shop owner wants to pay someone 2.00 an hour to sit at a table, read a paper and drink coffee so it looks like the place is busy and some retired guy thinks that would be a great deal for him, why shouldn't they be able to strike that deal?
 

froggigger

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Abolish it. Minimum wages are forced unemployment. The law makes it criminal to hire someone below a certain level of dollars per hour. Even someone willing to voluntarily work below that level can not legally be hired. Minimum wage laws outlaw jobs and thus raise unemployment.

Look at it another way. Obama wants to raise the minimum wage from $7.25/hour to $9.00/hour. If it happens, workers between those two rates could very well lose their jobs. Of course, there will be some employers who will raise the pay to minimum wage, but many simply will not be able to afford it and will have to cut workers. The demand curve for labor is set by the marginal productivity of the labor, and the very ones the minimum wage is supposed to protect the most, the marginal workers, are the ones who will no longer be able to find a job.
 

OscarB63

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It should be raised to a living wage.
I disagree, minimum wage jobs are not intended to be lifetime careers. If you are 35-40 and still working for minimum wage, you need to take a good hard look in the mirror and ask yourself "why".
 

fmw

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I disagree, minimum wage jobs are not intended to be lifetime careers. If you are 35-40 and still working for minimum wage, you need to take a good hard look in the mirror and ask yourself "why".
My suspicion is that many minimum wage jobs would rise above minimum wage if the law were repealed simply because of competition. Not all, of course. The very young working in fast food restaurants wouldn't see any improvement but that is the nature of the job. Most minimum wage jobs are temporary. It is good that our society has temporary jobs for people who whant them or need them. I'm not really in opposition to a minimum wage. I am generally in opposition to government sticking its nose where it doesn't belong.
 

ChuckBerry

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I am curious what the users of this forum have to say about the federal minimum wage. Should it be abolished, raised, or kept the same and why?
Raise the income tax rate on top earners and double the capital gains tax and you may abolish the federal minimum wage. Until then, rich people can find some other way to nickle and dime poor people.
 

Rainman05

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Thank you. I have expanded on the point.

unskilled workers need to learn a skill......then they wouldn't need a minimum wage.
I assume we are still discussing this within the concept of legislating the minimum wage, or rather, un-legislating it (abolishing it).

Easy to say. Easy to legislate. Hard to do properly. In order to change the % of people who end up being unskilled in any particular field, you need to change the paradigm in which such people are formed.

To give an example of what I mean.
It's easy to pass a law saying that from now, if you throw litter on the ground you go to prison for 2 years. This, you'd think, would heavily discourage anyone from throwing litter on the ground. But if you don't pass legislation demanding that garbage dumpsters or such be placed at every 50m (150feet if you wish to be barbaric) or at what you consider a convenient distance... you will just end up with a lot of people put in prison.

In order to pass a law, you need to create the means by which that measure can be enforced for the good of the public. Now, abolishing the minimal income wage would just result in a lot of people who take up minimal income jobs to remain there... for very little money, since most minimal income jobs don't really offer career advancements... or rather, very limited career advancement. So if you don't take steps to reduce the number of people who end up being unskilled in any desirable labor market, you will just do more harm than good.
 

solletica

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I am curious what the users of this forum have to say about the federal minimum wage. Should it be abolished, raised, or kept the same and why?
Min wage laws are unenforceable. If I want to pay someone below min wage, all I need to do is put an empty jar in front of his/her work space.
 
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Min wage laws are unenforceable. If I want to pay someone below min wage, all I need to do is put an empty jar in front of his/her work space.
Not true at all.

They are very enforceable.

You can't put a tip jar on a table then not pay for work.
 

Dapper Andy

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No, I am not assuming that at all. While it is true, more unskilled workers could find employment if there were no minimum wage law. Instead of having to pay 1 unskilled worker with 9$/hour or whatever it is... you could hire 4 unskilled workers with 2$ an hour. But does that really help the unskilled workers? Sure, more get hired... but working for 2$/hour is no way to make a living in the USA. Such a wage is fitting for the poorest of South American or Latin American countries, or Africa.. or India. Not the USA.

The problem is that there are too many unskilled workers in the USA.
Sure but that sort of rationale only makes sense if you throw all economic theory and common sense out the window.

I agree with abolishing minimum wage in principle but in practice it wouldn't change much anyway. You can only undercut the competition so far before it stops being worth while and there is no real long term advantage to underpaying employees. A business wouldn't layoff $9/hour employees to hire several $2/hour employees because it just wouldn't be worthwhile for those $2/hour employees to take the job. I mean, if you're going to be homeless you might as well be the type of homeless that isn't working a 40 hour work week.
 
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Sure but that sort of rationale only makes sense if you throw all economic theory and common sense out the window.

I agree with abolishing minimum wage in principle but in practice it wouldn't change much anyway. You can only undercut the competition so far before it stops being worth while and there is no real long term advantage to underpaying employees. A business wouldn't layoff $9/hour employees to hire several $2/hour employees because it just wouldn't be worthwhile for those $2/hour employees to take the job. I mean, if you're going to be homeless you might as well be the type of homeless that isn't working a 40 hour work week.
If underpaying wasn't an advantage slavery never would have existed.
 

Dapper Andy

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If underpaying wasn't an advantage slavery never would have existed.
I don't even know what that means but kudos in finding a way to interject "slavery" into the discussion.

Now insist everyone who disagrees with you is a racist and go along your way.
 
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