Should it be Merry X-Mass or Happy Holidays?

[Conflict]

This is the United states..

People should say whatever they want.

Freedom of speech.

When people tell me merry christmas... I tell them

"i'm not christian but the same to you".

Perhaps this makes me an iconoclast.. perhaps not being a christian makes me an iconoclast. So be it. That is my right as an American citizen...to be an iconoclast or not to abide by the festive doctrine of Christian belief.

At the same time I have no desire to hamper the religious beliefs of others.

If you want to say "merry christmas" .. go right ahead... but don't be offended or appauled when you come across someone like myself who will simply offer a retort that questions or contradicts your belief. 'Nuff said.

 

[ptsdkid]

Umm... Since when am I an Athiest?????????????????????????????

I like how you paint me into something that Im not just so it can fit your ignorant agenda.
I am no athiest.

Im no pagan either.
But Pagans came around long before Christians did, In fact, the only reason there are so few Pagans around is because intolerant Christians forced Pagans to convert or die in the early days of Christianity. The Tree came from Pagan celebrations of the winter solstice, do some research before you respond to this. Otherwise, I will make you look like a fool.

Im not offended by anything. My religion has many holy days of tradition. Hardly any of them are every mentioned and placed all over the public square and in shopping centers. That doesn't bother me. Why? Because my religion isn't so pathetic as to need this sort of thing. Christians who whine and complain because tax payers don't want to support your Christian displays make me want to vomit all over them. REAL Christians have no problem with following what is right. Crazy Pat Robertson followers think that we should be the Christian States of America, and **** all over anyone who disagrees.
Oh yeah, and condems them to "hell".

If Pat Robertson were in my living room right now, I would probably blow chunks of vomit all over his boots for being such a little bitching, whining, complaining ass baby.

You sure have a strange way of looking at things. The fact that this country was founded on a Christian tradition, and continues to keep it's overwhelming majority among the American people--matters little to you. But you have no problem in praising the Pagan among us, or in staying silent when the atheists among us try to destroy this country's tradition and belief system.
And since when have Christians whined and complained that taxpayers won't support Christmas displays? These public Christmas displays are almost always funded by private donations. The private displays being attacked are of course paid for by the particular owners in question.
Never heard that suggestion by Pat Robertson, but if it is correct, then we should put it to a vote today to have America called Christian States of America. The majority of Americans would certainly support that idea, and with it I can see our founding fathers smiling in their graves.
Why is it that everything good that America stands for--you have an opposite reaction and distaste for? Think it has anything to do with your lefty loser leaning?

 

[Caine]

You sure have a strange way of looking at things.

No I would have to say that even the most conservative of people on this site would agree with me that YOU have a strange way of looking at things.

The fact that this country was founded on a Christian tradition, and continues to keep it's overwhelming majority among the American people--matters little to you.

Why the **** should it?

But you have no problem in praising the Pagan among us, or in staying silent when the atheists among us try to destroy this country's tradition and belief system.

This country has no "belief" system. This country was founded on principles of freedom, and more notably, freedom of religion. DUR DUR DURRRRRRR!!!!!!

And since when have Christians whined and complained that taxpayers won't support Christmas displays? These public Christmas displays are almost always funded by private donations. The private displays being attacked are of course paid for by the particular owners in question.

Prove it.

Never heard that suggestion by Pat Robertson, but if it is correct, then we should put it to a vote today to have America called Christian States of America. The majority of Americans would certainly support that idea, and with it I can see our founding fathers smiling in their graves.

This has got to be the most retarded thing Ive ever heard. I would say you have downs syndrome, but that would be an insult to retarded kids everywhere.

Why is it that everything good that America stands for--you have an opposite reaction and distaste for? Think it has anything to do with your lefty loser leaning?

ROFL. This retarded comment doesn't even deserve a respectable response.

 

[Conflict]

The fact that this country was founded on a Christian tradition, and continues to keep it's overwhelming majority among the American people

Wow.

The fact is that this country was founded upon Independent thought... which is a concept that immediately and indiubitably dispells any notion of religious grandeur. THis means, in short, that even though a majority of American people may be Christian... this is not an issue which holds precedence over the execution, adjudication, nor legislation of this nation. Therefore anyone has the right to criticize Christians.. just as anyone has a right to criticise Jews.. Muslims.. Hindus... or Atheists.

 

[Kandahar]

How many times can you libs miss the point here? The message behind this original poll has to with the attack on Christianity.

No one is attacking Christianity by wishing you Happy Holidays. Get over yourself, you sanctimonious asshole. You aren't a martyr, no matter how much you wish you were.

Again, it's athesists like you and Michael Newdow that feel offended, and feel the need to eliminate the name 'Christmas' in Christmas tree,

Actually, no one except you fundamentalist nutjobs really gives a **** whether someone calls it a "Christmas tree" or a "Holiday tree." Is anyone here saying that the phrase Christmas Tree is unfair to non-Christians? No. So shut up.

And unless you'd like to tell me what exactly is the religious significance of your tree, the point is moot. I'll give you a hint: There is no religious significance, at least not to Christians.

and eliminating the manger scene,

Again, no one cares if someone wants to put a manger scene in front of their house. The problem comes when people want to spend taxpayer money on religious symbolism. Personally I don't really care that much about this particular issue, but I can certainly understand why some people are opposed to it.

and to eliminate the slogan 'In God We Trust' from our coins and government buildings etc.

There was never any reason for that phrase to be added to money anyway. Will the money suddenly stop working properly if it's removed?

What you do with your pagan holiday of 'hell' is your business, but butt out of the majority tradition of celebrating Christ's birth by us using Christmas.

No one on this board (or most of the country as a whole) has thrown a hissy-fit about Christians saying "Merry Christmas." It's assholes like YOU that have a problem with others wishing you Happy Holidays.

 

[vergiss]

You should meet 90% of my extended family. Religious nut-cases to the very bone.

Duke

Funny how ptsdkid isn't touching it.

 

[ptsdkid]

No one is attacking Christianity by wishing you Happy Holidays. Get over yourself, you sanctimonious asshole. You aren't a martyr, no matter how much you wish you were.



Actually, no one except you fundamentalist nutjobs really gives a **** whether someone calls it a "Christmas tree" or a "Holiday tree." Is anyone here saying that the phrase Christmas Tree is unfair to non-Christians? No. So shut up.

And unless you'd like to tell me what exactly is the religious significance of your tree, the point is moot. I'll give you a hint: There is no religious significance, at least not to Christians.



Again, no one cares if someone wants to put a manger scene in front of their house. The problem comes when people want to spend taxpayer money on religious symbolism. Personally I don't really care that much about this particular issue, but I can certainly understand why some people are opposed to it.



There was never any reason for that phrase to be added to money anyway. Will the money suddenly stop working properly if it's removed?



No one on this board (or most of the country as a whole) has thrown a hissy-fit about Christians saying "Merry Christmas." It's assholes like YOU that have a problem with others wishing you Happy Holidays.

I never said anyone is attacking me by them saying 'Happy Holidays'. The point here that keeps flying well over your head is the concern of the majority of Americans of people attacking and wanting to eliminate all symbols of Christianity whether they be in the form of 'In God we Trust' coins, 'In God we trust plaques on government buildings, in saying Happy Holidays to rid us of saying Merry Christmas, or substituting 'Holiday Tree' for Christmas tree, and in getting ACLU attornies to ban the innocent manger scene in front of privately owned homes etc. These are but just a few examples of this constant threat and attact on Christianity.

I have yet to see a case where people are trying to get taxppayer monies to place a manger on their property. You're the type that would yell fire in a crowed theatre or pose the threat that global warming is going to kill us all--therefore we should be taxed at an even higher rate to fund every environmental whacko group out there. Hopefully by now, you'll be able to see the real threat to the much bigger picture concerning Christianity. Once you liberals start whittling away at our rights (such as gun ownership)--it's only a matter of time before we all lose our independence.

 

[bandaidwoman]

I am a liberal that believes in GOd and gun ownership. ( I own a shotgun, and two hand pistols). Don't paint us with a broad brush. I only became a citizen of this country because of its secular government. YOu started this poll about happy holidays vs christmas. Don't go tangential like a schizoid and and go off tangent on other God issues. And please stop with the ACLU, they have done just as much to protect christians and I wont' repost the link.

 

[Caine]

Oh boy, I get to tear you a new one again.

I never said anyone is attacking me by them saying 'Happy Holidays'. The point here that keeps flying well over your head is the concern of the majority of Americans of people attacking and wanting to eliminate all symbols of Christianity whether they be in the form of 'In God we Trust' coins, 'In God we trust plaques on government buildings, in saying Happy Holidays to rid us of saying Merry Christmas, or substituting 'Holiday Tree' for Christmas tree, and in getting ACLU attornies to ban the innocent manger scene in front of privately owned homes etc. These are but just a few examples of this constant threat and attact on Christianity.

Show me where an ACLU lawyer EVER tried to ban a manger scene from someone's personal front yard. This claim is full of crap, you read John Gibson? Michael Savage? Neither of them have any merit in my book, hell, Savage is part of the American Taliban.
So is Rush Limbaugh for that matter.

I have yet to see a case where people are trying to get taxppayer monies to place a manger on their property. You're the type that would yell fire in a crowed theatre or pose the threat that global warming is going to kill us all--therefore we should be taxed at an even higher rate to fund every environmental whacko group out there. Hopefully by now, you'll be able to see the real threat to the much bigger picture concerning Christianity. Once you liberals start whittling away at our rights (such as gun ownership)--it's only a matter of time before we all lose our independence.

ROFL.... I guess you think these "evil liberals" are trying to steal your guns too right? Ain't gonna happen, its more bullshit rhetoric spread by Republicans to dumb ass southerners and ex-military gun freaks who get all paranoid about it. Just like the RNC spread lies that Kerry was going to take people's bibles and burn them if elected. As far as the first sentence of this paragraph, nobody, nobody, nobody, nobody, is trying to get taxpayer money to put a manger on thier property, But they are using taxpayer money to put them up on government property.
DUR DUR DURRRRRR!!!
Stop being so paranoid, Pat Robertson's Brother.

 

[Duke]

You sure have a strange way of looking at things. The fact that this country was founded on a Christian tradition, and continues to keep it's overwhelming majority among the American people--matters little to you. But you have no problem in praising the Pagan among us, or in staying silent when the atheists among us try to destroy this country's tradition and belief system.
And since when have Christians whined and complained that taxpayers won't support Christmas displays? These public Christmas displays are almost always funded by private donations. The private displays being attacked are of course paid for by the particular owners in question.
Never heard that suggestion by Pat Robertson, but if it is correct, then we should put it to a vote today to have America called Christian States of America. The majority of Americans would certainly support that idea, and with it I can see our founding fathers smiling in their graves.
Why is it that everything good that America stands for--you have an opposite reaction and distaste for? Think it has anything to do with your lefty loser leaning?

Thank you. You just defined Anti-American.
Have you ever heard of this document, they keep it in D.C., we call it the Constitution of the United States of America? Well, it lays down some rules and guidelines for how the government of the USA should be. You see, there is this one part in it saying that religon and government are to be kept apart. Guess what? The founders themselves wrote this! Do you think they would be very happy if the Constitution was violated?
If you are agaisnt the Constitution, you are Anti-American.


Duke

 

[ptsdkid]

Thank you. You just defined Anti-American.
Have you ever heard of this document, they keep it in D.C., we call it the Constitution of the United States of America? Well, it lays down some rules and guidelines for how the government of the USA should be. You see, there is this one part in it saying that religon and government are to be kept apart. Guess what? The founders themselves wrote this! Do you think they would be very happy if the Constitution was violated?
If you are agaisnt the Constitution, you are Anti-American.


Duke

Liar..Liar...pants on fire! There is no where in our Constitution that states any such thing for a seperation of church and state, or any other similar terms to that affect. Come on David, prove me wrong. Once you liberals get these false rumors going--it gets hard to stop you. But I am a Constitutional Conservative, therefore I have no doubt that you'll fail to appear here with anything to support that bogus claim. BTW, I have a mini version of the Constitution strapped to my sleeve just in case I need to slap a liberal around with the truth. HeHeHe!

 

[Caine]

Liar..Liar...pants on fire!

Okay little Timmy, calm down or i'll have to send you to the corner.

There is no where in our Constitution that states any such thing for a seperation of church and state, or any other similar terms to that affect.

Okay... If thats how you feel. Most Constitutional Interpreters use other documents written by the founders to show thier INTENT. I'll get to this in a minute.

Once you liberals get these false rumors going--it gets hard to stop you. But I am a Constitutional Conservative, therefore I have no doubt that you'll fail to appear here with anything to support that bogus claim.

Okay, Would you consider George W. Bush as someone who would only appoint a Constitutional Conservative? I'll await your answer before giving you the smackdown.

BTW, I have a mini version of the Constitution strapped to my sleeve just in case I need to slap a liberal around with the truth. HeHeHe!

Okay, I warned you, 10 minutes in the "Time-Out" Corner. GO!


....Hey, I said keep your nose in the corner, stop trying to turn around.

 

[ptsdkid]

Okay little Timmy, calm down or i'll have to send you to the corner.
Okay... If thats how you feel. Most Constitutional Interpreters use other documents written by the founders to show thier INTENT. I'll get to this in a minute.
Okay, Would you consider George W. Bush as someone who would only appoint a Constitutional Conservative? I'll await your answer before giving you the smackdown.

Okay, I warned you, 10 minutes in the "Time-Out" Corner. GO!


....Hey, I said keep your nose in the corner, stop trying to turn around.

OK, under the 10 minute time period..I believe. First, it's the Constitution we're talking about here, not some revisionist paperwork that fits the agenda of liberalism.

It does seem like Bush is appointing Constitutional Conservatives. However, in these modern times of political correctness and all--I'm not surprised when a 'strict' Constitutionalist slips up now and then. I can say this, the chances are about 100% greater that a Republican Supreme Court judge will be a Constitutionalist over his or her liberal counterpart.

Now you got 5 minutes to reply. I would like to hear from you McCain on wheter you think the seperation of church and state (or similar phrases) are in the Constitution. If you don't know, that's fine, then perhaps you could tell me if you think the other guy will come back with proof to the issue.

 

[Kandahar]

I never said anyone is attacking me by them saying 'Happy Holidays'. The point here that keeps flying well over your head is the concern of the majority of Americans of people attacking and wanting to eliminate all symbols of Christianity

Oh you poor, oppressed 80+ percent. Isn't there a statute of limitations to bitch about Christian persecution? Christians have been in charge of the world for 1,600 years. Most of these people you believe are "attacking" you, are actually Christians themselves; they just aren't as braindead about the meaning of freedom of religion as you are.

whether they be in the form of 'In God we Trust' coins,

Was there any reason for that phrase to be added to money in the first place?

'In God we trust plaques on government buildings,

Was there any reason for those plaques to be added to the buildings in the first place?

in saying Happy Holidays to rid us of saying Merry Christmas,

Or maybe some people just say that because they don't know if you celebrate Christmas. Or maybe some people just say that because THEY don't celebrate Christmas. Or maybe they just say it because they like the phrase Happy Holidays better. People who wish you Happy Holidays aren't going to crucify you, or feed you to lions, or sacrifice your children in their devil-worshipping rituals. They're just wishing you Happy Holidays. Get over it, and get over yourself.

or substituting 'Holiday Tree' for Christmas tree,

Please explain to me the religious significance of your tree.

and in getting ACLU attornies to ban the innocent manger scene in front of privately owned homes etc.

You're a bald-faced liar. Show me one case of the ACLU doing this, liar.

These are but just a few examples of this constant threat and attact on Christianity.

My heart bleeds for you and your poor persecuted brethren.

I have yet to see a case where people are trying to get taxppayer monies to place a manger on their property.

It's called GOVERNMENT BUILDINGS.

You're the type that would yell fire in a crowed theatre

What does this even mean?

or pose the threat that global warming is going to kill us all--therefore we should be taxed at an even higher rate to fund every environmental whacko group out there.

Am I? If you had bothered to read any other threads you'd know that was not the case. But I guess it's easier to paint everyone who disagrees with you with the same brush.

Hopefully by now, you'll be able to see the real threat to the much bigger picture concerning Christianity.

Global warming alarmists and people who scream fire in movie theatres. Got it.

Once you liberals start whittling away at our rights (such as gun ownership)--it's only a matter of time before we all lose our independence.

Gun control advocates too, huh? I'll be sure to get the holy water ready next time I see one.

 

[bandaidwoman]

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."
------------
Over the years, however, the Supreme Court and lower federal courts have reinterpreted this amendment in many ways. This reinterpretation of the Constitution has in effect become the "law" supposedly dictating the "separation of church and state."

Thus, the seperation of church and state, I leave that to those expert in legal interpretation of the 1st amendment, the Supreme Court and not the novices that most of us are.


I feel the Supreme court has much more knowledge and expertise on the subject matter than anyone else on this forum, (I'm also a fan of Thomas Jefferson, so I'm probably prejudiced.)

(The arguments I realize stem from the fact that we cannot allow a literal, syllogistic interpretation of the clause "congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion". )

In the end, the seperation of church and state protects christians and allows them to practice freely without suffering the consequences and repeating the mistakes committed by the theocratical governments in Europe.


Actually the very principal of the seperation of church and state is unique to the christian religion and is what makes it the most politically progressive of all the monotheistic religions. (It is one of the things I admire coming from a non christian.) The principle of separation of religion and government was brilliantly and succinctly stated by Jesus of Nazareth: "Render unto Caesar that which belongs to Caesar and to God that which belongs to God." Most theologans state that Jesus cleary defined a seperation between himself and governement. Wether our forefathers were Christians, Diests, Unitarians etc., who cares. It is very christian to allow this seperation of religion from the government. For this, we can thank Christianity and our forefathers and later, the supreme court, for making this a reality. Unfortunately, the very people who want to reverse this seperation are christians themselves. How ironic.

 

[bandaidwoman]

And for the record, the words "In God We Trust" were not consistently on all U.S. currency until 1956, during the McCarthy Hysteria.

 

[bandaidwoman]

By the way when I was studying for my citizenship I came across the treaty of tripoli

The Treaty of Tripoli, passed by the U.S. Senate in 1797, read in part: "The government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion." The treaty was written during the Washington administration, and sent to the Senate during the Adams administration. It was read aloud to the Senate, and each Senator received a printed copy. This was the 339th time that a recorded vote was required by the Senate, but only the third time a vote was unanimous (the next time was to honor George Washington). There is no record of any debate or dissension on the treaty. It was reprinted in full in three newspapers - two in Philadelphia, one in New York City. There is no record of public outcry or complaint in subsequent editions of the papers.

My husband is baptist and he pointed out that it is part of the Baptist Creed that there be a seperation of church and state:

http://www.theology.edu/journal/volume2/ushistor.htm

The concept of the separation of church and state appears in the 1963 Baptist Faith and Message (a revision of an earlier statement where it also appears) adopted by the Southern Baptist Convention:


God alone is Lord of the conscience, and He has left it free from the doctrines and commandments of men which are contrary to His Word or not contained in it. Church and state should be separate. The state owes to every church protection and full freedom in the pursuit of its spiritual ends. In providing for such freedom no ecclesiastical group or denomination should be favored by the state more than others. Civil government being ordained of God, it is the duty of Christians to render loyal obedience thereto in all things not contrary to the revealed will of God. The church should not resort to the civil power to carry on its work.........

Thus, I reiterate, the concept of seperation of church and state is very christian, and is one of its most amazing and progressive contribution to our country.

 

[Stace]

I was about to post a whole bunch of links relating to separation of church and state, but my laptop cut off on me, so it'll have to wait.

 

[ptsdkid]

I was about to post a whole bunch of links relating to separation of church and state, but my laptop cut off on me, so it'll have to wait.

And how many of those copious links were taken from our Constitution, Stace?

 

[Stace]

And how many of those copious links were taken from our Constitution, Stace?

aw, I don't get a special nickname like everyone else?

Off the top of my head, I can't remember, seeing as how I had about 10 IE windows open when my laptop cut off. And I'm about to go watch some TV, so you'll have to wait to find out.

 

[ptsdkid]

aw, I don't get a special nickname like everyone else?

Off the top of my head, I can't remember, seeing as how I had about 10 IE windows open when my laptop cut off. And I'm about to go watch some TV, so you'll have to wait to find out.

You're keeping me on the edge of my seat, Trace. "Anticipation"...Carly Simon

 

[Duke]

Liar..Liar...pants on fire! There is no where in our Constitution that states any such thing for a seperation of church and state, or any other similar terms to that affect. Come on David, prove me wrong. Once you liberals get these false rumors going--it gets hard to stop you. But I am a Constitutional Conservative, therefore I have no doubt that you'll fail to appear here with anything to support that bogus claim. BTW, I have a mini version of the Constitution strapped to my sleeve just in case I need to slap a liberal around with the truth. HeHeHe!

Wow, David Duke, that is some cutting edge humor...... :2razz: :2razz: :2razz:


Are you sure that there is no place in the Constitution that dictates that Church and State powers are to remain seperate? Oh, maybe a part called, "Seperation of Church and State?" Also, if conservatives are so loving of the Consitituiton, why have they tried to amend it to restrict freedom?


Duke

 

[ptsdkid]

Wow, David Duke, that is some cutting edge humor...... :2razz: :2razz: :2razz:


Are you sure that there is no place in the Constitution that dictates that Church and State powers are to remain seperate? Oh, maybe a part called, "Seperation of Church and State?" Also, if conservatives are so loving of the Consitituiton, why have they tried to amend it to restrict freedom?


Duke

Pay attention David D: Its always been the liberals that seek to amend and revise the Constitution. Where have you been? Restricting freedoms is the top agenda item of the democratic platform.

 

[Stace]

Pay attention David D: Its always been the liberals that seek to amend and revise the Constitution. Where have you been? Restricting freedoms is the top agenda item of the democratic platform.

That's funny.....I always thought it was the exact opposite.

Have any sources you'd care to share?

 

[Kandahar]

Hey ptsdkid, I'm still waiting for an example and a link of the ACLU filing a lawsuit against someone because they displayed the nativity scene on their own private property. If you can't produce such an example, at least have the decency to admit that you were flat-out lying, apologize to everyone, and admit that you're an imbecile.