• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Should infants born with serious mental defects be euthanized?

Should infants born with serious mental defects be euthanized?

  • Yes, compulsorily

    Votes: 5 10.2%
  • Yes, if the parent(s) decide that

    Votes: 6 12.2%
  • No

    Votes: 38 77.6%

  • Total voters
    49
Status
Not open for further replies.

Viking11

Banned
Joined
May 2, 2016
Messages
174
Reaction score
60
Location
New Hampshire
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
It's unethical, but there are advantages to it. The ancient Greeks did it, and China and North Korea do it today.
 

BelieveNU

Banned
Joined
May 10, 2016
Messages
124
Reaction score
39
Location
Where i Stand, trust.
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
My son was born with autism. Now, he's in top marks and concidered not only one of the brightest mentally, but physically as well. Don't kill a kid without givin em a shot to swing the bat a plate. Just ain't right. Now, if life is on the line and situations are complex, I won't be so quick to absolute, but to assume someone can't only overcome, but overachieve from any "handicap" simply never had to push a day in their life.
 

X Factor

Anti-Socialist
Dungeon Master
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 1, 2010
Messages
59,778
Reaction score
30,474
Location
El Paso Strong
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Conservative
I hope pretty much everyone finds the thought of killing babies and children as offensive as I do.
 

X Factor

Anti-Socialist
Dungeon Master
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 1, 2010
Messages
59,778
Reaction score
30,474
Location
El Paso Strong
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Conservative
But, China and NK do it...:roll:

And we tear them apart while in they're womb for no reason other than the inconvenience of their existence. Sadly, the question of "euthanizing" them after birth is a completely logical progression.
 

WCH

Believer
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 30, 2013
Messages
30,953
Reaction score
9,018
Location
The Lone Star State.
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
And we tear them apart while in they're womb for no reason other than the inconvenience of their existence. Sadly, the question of "euthanizing" them after birth is a completely logical progression.

Sad indeed.
 

BitterPill

Ignorance Is Virtue
DP Veteran
Joined
May 16, 2016
Messages
2,957
Reaction score
819
Location
SoCal
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
And we tear them apart while in they're womb for no reason other than the inconvenience of their existence. Sadly, the question of "euthanizing" them after birth is a completely logical progression.

We tear them apart in the womb after they're born?

That is sad, but not why you think it is.
 

Medusa

DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 9, 2011
Messages
39,861
Reaction score
7,848
Location
Turkey
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Other
It's unethical, but there are advantages to it. The ancient Greeks did it, and China and North Korea do it today.

So did Nazis and you didnt mention them,why ?
 

Cephus

DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 15, 2007
Messages
31,034
Reaction score
11,932
Location
CA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
I think that decision ought to be made before birth, it isn't like we don't know that the child will be born with serious defects. It is no one's responsibility to decide but the parents and they should know, going in, that they will be responsible for whatever decision they make.
 

BelieveNU

Banned
Joined
May 10, 2016
Messages
124
Reaction score
39
Location
Where i Stand, trust.
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
I think that decision ought to be made before birth, it isn't like we don't know that the child will be born with serious defects. It is no one's responsibility to decide but the parents and they should know, going in, that they will be responsible for whatever decision they make.

We didn't know my kid was Autistic until he was easily a year old. Probably later. Not something easily diagnosed. But even if I knew, 100%, that's the trial for him, ahead. I'd still green light it. I know what I'm made of. I know what my wife is made of. And when we came together to make one flesh (my son), I knew, it wouldn't matter. It wouldn't matter whatever obstical placed, he'd overcome. Because it's not just genes, it's love and drive, and support and desire. It's so much, and I would never and I mean EVER deny a child a shot at the dream known as life unless the situation is so twisted, that it requires real review. See...



And I might be white, but I sure as hell know what it means to come up and fight. And if my son's gym coach isn't just bull****ing (and you look in that man's eyes, and call him a liar, i'd pay to see it), then my kid is Gohan to my Goku, but without the Buu saga, but how it was ment to end.
 

Cephus

DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 15, 2007
Messages
31,034
Reaction score
11,932
Location
CA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
We didn't know my kid was Autistic until he was easily a year old. Probably later. Not something easily diagnosed. But even if I knew, 100%, that's the trial for him, ahead. I'd still green light it. I know what I'm made of. I know what my wife is made of. And when we came together to make one flesh (my son), I knew, it wouldn't matter. It wouldn't matter whatever obstical placed, he'd overcome. Because it's not just genes, it's love and drive, and support and desire. It's so much, and I would never and I mean EVER deny a child a shot at the dream known as life unless the situation is so twisted, that it requires real review. See...

I was actually talking about serious physical and clear mental defects like Down's Syndrome, missing limbs and other deformities. And as I said, it ought to be completely up to the parents to decide. Whatever decision you make, you ought to be responsible for.
 

BelieveNU

Banned
Joined
May 10, 2016
Messages
124
Reaction score
39
Location
Where i Stand, trust.
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
I was actually talking about serious physical and clear mental defects like Down's Syndrome, missing limbs and other deformities. And as I said, it ought to be completely up to the parents to decide. Whatever decision you make, you ought to be responsible for.

Ligit, like born without an organ required to live (heart, lungs, it happens, truely). Thank you for the clarification. ^.^ Good people Cephus, we don't always agree, but you're good people.
 

Fiddytree

Neocon Elitist
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 9, 2008
Messages
29,961
Reaction score
17,358
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
You know, I grew up around a lot of families (including my own) where these parents and kids were dismissed by pockets of the professional class for having a life that they recognized as being worthwhile because of their disabilities.

Many of those same kids grew up and outpaced what the professionals claimed would happen, but other times they did not. Regardless of the outcome, not a single one of them would have wished that they or their loved ones never existed.
 

Fiddytree

Neocon Elitist
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 9, 2008
Messages
29,961
Reaction score
17,358
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
And to add a couple more layers. I know two young people right now with Down Syndrome. They are doing well. They may or may not be able to pursue their dreams (well, that's what dreams are for anyway), but they are certainly much like any other teenager.

One is a potential business owner. His mother and father purchased a shop, and the young guy is working at it right now. The parents are hoping that if the business succeeds he can take it on as an adult. Why did they do it? Because the parents correctly saw that a lot of adult service providers and professionals in general were too damn dismissive of their kids. So they said if the professionals won't get their act together, I will.

It's working and the shop has become an icon in the community for people with disabilities.

Another young lady is a social butterfly and doing well. Active in extracurricular activities, she has created a club at the school and has a wide social network. She also works at the shop of the other family's I discussed above. Her dreams may change (she likes to sing and dreams of stardom), but she's being given a steady life preparation from her parents as well as the school.

If you search around, you're going to find out that social expectations and professional opinion has shifted over the last 20 years. These kids haven't changed, the interventions and professional orientations have. They are going to college (even if it is modified programming), they are holding regular jobs, heck some of them are even business owners themselves.

And I myself am the sibling of a young adult with a form of autism. He's treasured by his manufacturing employer, has his own place, and pays for his rent. He is on benefits and does the careful dance to keep them, because he also has a light amount of assisted living from staff.

Folks, assessments and life prognosis at a young age is tricky stuff that can indeed become overly gloomy if it isn't spot on. When I was 5 I was diagnosed as being mentally retarded and my folks were told right then and there that my life, their hopes for me were dead. They were told many of the same things with my brother.

We came out differently in our outcomes, but I think the variance in outcomes with disabilities, in addition to the real joys, triumphs, and defeats in life make people with disabilities just as worthy of experiencing it as anyone else.
 
Last edited:

Ikari

Moderator
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 8, 2006
Messages
83,166
Reaction score
51,950
Location
Colorado
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Left
I'm from Buenos Aires and I say kill them all!!!

But seriously, no you cannot euthanize them. Very serious medical conditions, like lacking a brain or severe deformaties that would prevent living can be detected before birth. However, we cannot just start killing mentally and physically handicapped people because it is convenient for everyone else.
 

Bodhisattva

Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 29, 2007
Messages
101,888
Reaction score
21,917
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Independent
I'm from Buenos Aires and I say kill them all!!!

But seriously, no you cannot euthanize them. Very serious medical conditions, like lacking a brain or severe deformaties that would prevent living can be detected before birth. However, we cannot just start killing mentally and physically handicapped people because it is convenient for everyone else.

It will save society a lot in health care and in taxes that can be spent on much better things...
 

azgreg

Chicks dig the long ball
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 28, 2012
Messages
24,020
Reaction score
21,182
Location
Phoenix, AZ
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
This would eliminate half the posters on this forum.
 

Bodhisattva

Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 29, 2007
Messages
101,888
Reaction score
21,917
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Independent
And to add a couple more layers. I know two young people right now with Down Syndrome. They are doing well. They may or may not be able to pursue their dreams (well, that's what dreams are for anyway), but they are certainly much like any other teenager.

One is a potential business owner. His mother and father purchased a shop, and the young guy is working at it right now. The parents are hoping that if the business succeeds he can take it on as an adult. Why did they do it? Because the parents correctly saw that a lot of adult service providers and professionals in general were too damn dismissive of their kids. So they said if the professionals won't get their act together, I will.

It's working and the shop has become an icon in the community for people with disabilities.

Another young lady is a social butterfly and doing well. Active in extracurricular activities, she has created a club at the school and has a wide social network. She also works at the shop of the other family's I discussed above. Her dreams may change (she likes to sing and dreams of stardom), but she's being given a steady life preparation from her parents as well as the school.

If you search around, you're going to find out that social expectations and professional opinion has shifted over the last 20 years. These kids haven't changed, the interventions and professional orientations have. They are going to college (even if it is modified programming), they are holding regular jobs, heck some of them are even business owners themselves.

And I myself am the sibling of a young adult with a form of autism. He's treasured by his manufacturing employer, has his own place, and pays for his rent. He is on benefits and does the careful dance to keep them, because he also has a light amount of assisted living from staff.

Folks, assessments and life prognosis at a young age is tricky stuff that can indeed become overly gloomy if it isn't spot on. When I was 5 I was diagnosed as being mentally retarded and my folks were told right then and there that my life, their hopes for me were dead. They were told many of the same things with my brother.

We came out differently in our outcomes, but I think the variance in outcomes with disabilities, in addition to the real joys, triumphs, and defeats in life make people with disabilities just as worthy of experiencing it as anyone else.

I wouldn't call Downs a serious mental defect either...

Guys... I work at a school and the ones with the serious mental defects are the kids being led about in a daze, looking at the ground all the time that would stand alone all day not knowing what to do if they were not under control, wet themselves because they don't know how to go to the bathroom, and basically have the look of no life in their eyes... Downs and autism (at least not severe) are not that bad. The Downs kids are happy, talkative, running about saying hi, etc.
 

phattonez

Catholic
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
Messages
30,870
Reaction score
4,245
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
Those who support this are unwitting heirs of Protestant philosophy, specifically the Protestant Work Ethic. The idea is that a human is only valuable for their contributions. Of course, that is nonsense, and all people are valuable because of the fact that they are human, and thus made in the Image of God.
 

BelieveNU

Banned
Joined
May 10, 2016
Messages
124
Reaction score
39
Location
Where i Stand, trust.
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
That is not a serious mental defect...

**** you. My son went from barely talking, mildly retarted at age 5 to top of his class by age 7. You can't steal that proof that people deserve a shot from the womb so long as there isn't something super ceral happening to both mother and child in the birth. He's a champion, that overcame odds, that most never will. Most end up like you say, drooling in a pool of thier own piss. But not mine. No sir. Mine rose up, and over came, and you can try to steal that, but today was damn sure the wrong day to try, because the awards don't lie. The testimony of his teachers, speech theropists, councilors and yes, even friends, don't lie. So you vote up that "kill those that cost too much for society" crap, and in 20 years, i promise you one things, and only one thing, My Son Will Be More Successful Than You EVER. Bitch. Now watch your mannors, and apologize not to me, but the champ my child is. Lest we met one day, and I show him why we train for ruthless aggression. Hate ****in nazis...
 

Chomsky

Social Democrat
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 28, 2015
Messages
59,852
Reaction score
46,624
Location
Third Coast
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
It's unethical, but there are advantages to it. The ancient Greeks did it, and China and North Korea do it today.
Maybe you should be asking the kids in question themselves ...
 

Ikari

Moderator
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 8, 2006
Messages
83,166
Reaction score
51,950
Location
Colorado
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Left
It will save society a lot in health care and in taxes that can be spent on much better things...

And if we gassed the prisons, think of all the money we could save.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom