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Isn't the OP referring to "legal" immigrants as opposed to "illegal immigrants?"
Trump has recognized that undocumented immigrants…
Yup. @sKiTzo I'm referring to people who would otherwise be deported, are law abiding and have not legally immigrated to the US.Nope, since the OP starts with:
Sorry, but if they lived here for years, then they have had plenty of time to legalize their citizenship. Cutting the line doesn't deserve a reward.If they've lived here for years and the only crime they ever committed was crossing the border illegally, are they not law-abiding citizens? To me that's like saying I'm not a law abiding citizen because I stole candy from a convenient store when I was 5, or because I occasionally jaywalk. Maybe the degree of the crime is slightly greater, but if they've followed the rules, acted like a decent person and contributed to society, then it's essentially a victimless crime. There's no sense in saying that person isn't law abiding or denying them a path to citizenship.
It's not really a "line". It's more like a "lottery", some of which is by explicit drawing and the rest by who has connections on record with who. I'm not saying that legitimizing illegal immigration is the reform we need, but I am saying that legal immigration reform is needed before you can rely on it as a working alternative.Sorry, but if they lived here for years, then they have had plenty of time to legalize their citizenship. Cutting the line doesn't deserve a reward.
Agreed. In the meantime, until that reform happens, we are stuck with what we have. Congress is a failure.It's not really a "line". It's more like a "lottery", some of which is by explicit drawing and the rest by who has connections on record with who. I'm not saying that legitimizing illegal immigration is the reform we need, but I am saying that legal immigration reform is needed before you can rely on it as a working alternative.
Should immigrants have a path to citizenship?
LOL.In what way? Unless you assume that Democrats are racists, and I already provided evidence that racism resides more these days with the GOP, it's nonsensical. That's why Trix's comment was trolling.
What happens when the labor market is tight? Wages, quite naturally, increase.I have never made that argument. An argument I have made is that we are at 4.2% unemployment, meaning the labor market is already tight. If you don't like inflation, kicking out workers in this circumstance is going to make you unhappy.
The same would be applicable below, 'If the shoe fits...'If the shoe fits...
I have. She knows it's true and so won't engage. But that seems to be par for the course.
What you are describing is the Bracero temporary visa program for migrant farm workers. It was discontinued at the urging of Democrats and their allies notably Caesar Chavez of the UFW. Chavez conducted a very public campaign to ban foreign workers who he felt undercut union members wages. He also campaigned for tighter border security to prevent what he called "wetbacks" from taking American jobs.I was reading Mr Majestyk by Elmore Leonard. The title is about a melon farm where the owner tries to get his melons to market.
He uses seasonal workers that came around each planting to pick the melons - then they moved on.
It is a good system, some workers came back year after year
Sorry, but if they lived here for years, then they have had plenty of time to legalize their citizenship. Cutting the line doesn't deserve a reward.
Trump has recognized that undocumented immigrants are important for several industries and has backed off arresting and deporting them. I would argue that there are a lot more industries that need these workers to operate effectively.
Those immigrants who haven't committed crimes and are productively employed - should they be allowed to remain and given a path to citizenship?
There's a direct negative impact on my life if someone breaks into my home and resides there. An illegal immigrant who follows the law and contributes to society isn't doing any harm to me. Also, I completely disagree with your black and white idea of what "law abiding" means.No
No, it’s nothing like that. It would be like someone breaking into your house, but not stealing anything, simply residing in your home.
It isn’t. They cut the line and didn’t follow the proper procedure that millions of other legal immigrants have to follow.
Other than the fact they aren’t law abiding and shouldn’t be given citizenship.
Same with an illegal residing in the country.There's a direct negative impact on my life if someone breaks into my home and resides there.
Yes they are. They are taking up resources and tax payer money.An illegal immigrant who follows the law and contributes to society isn't doing any harm to me.
Your agreement is not needed or relevant. Their mere presence in the US is a crime. This is objectively true.Also, I completely disagree with your black and white idea of what "law abiding" means.
Not for long. He is going after the criminals first and giving those here illegally to chose that path.Trump has recognized that undocumented immigrants are important for several industries and has backed off arresting and deporting them. I would argue that there are a lot more industries that need these workers to operate effectively.
Those immigrants who haven't committed crimes and are productively employed - should they be allowed to remain and given a path to citizenship?
So is anyone who lives in this country, including citizens. If they contribute as much as an average citizen they are doing no more harm than the rest of us are.Same with an illegal residing in the country.
Yes they are. They are taking up resources and tax payer money.
Yes it is, but if that's the only law they have broken then I wouldn't considering them any less law abiding then someone who frequently jaywalks. I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on this point.Your agreement is not needed or relevant. Their mere presence in the US is a crime. This is objectively true.
They aren’t citizens, nor do they CJ tribute as much.So is anyone who lives in this country, including citizens. If they contribute as much as an average citizen they are doing no more harm than the rest of us are.
They are not law abiding.Yes it is, but if that's the only law they have broken then I wouldn't considering them any less law abiding then someone who frequently jaywalks.
Agreement is irrelevant. It’s objective reality that they are not law abiding.I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on this point.
There are crimes and then there are crimes. Illegal entry is at worst a misdeamenor for a first offense.Same with an illegal residing in the country.
Yes they are. They are taking up resources and tax payer money.
Your agreement is not needed or relevant. Their mere presence in the US is a crime. This is objectively true.
Illegal immigrants are by definition, not law abiding. This is objective reality. Rewarding criminal behavior with citizenship is completely retarded.There are crimes and then there are crimes. Illegal entry is at worst a misdeamenor for a first offense.
Do you religiously obey speed limits? Speeding is
generally not a crime but exceed the speed limit by enough or just get the cop on a bad day and you'll be hit with reckless driving and that IS a crime. Get off your high horse about the crime part. Most
people knowingly or otherwise violate some law.
And why do you assume illegals don't pay taxes?
That's not true in many cases. They often have a higher effective tax rate than most people, including some large corporations and high-income households:They aren’t citizens, nor do they CJ tribute as much.
They are not law abiding.
Agreement is irrelevant. It’s objective reality that they are not law abiding.
You just itemized my point.
- New York City: Has reportedly spent billions of dollars on migrant care, with some estimates reaching over $7 billion. Projections for future costs are as high as $10.5 billion by summer 2025. There have been significant expenses for housing, food, and healthcare, leading to projected budget cuts in various departments.
- Chicago: Leaders estimate the city spent nearly $434 million on food, shelter, and other services between July 2022 and July 2024. The city is facing a significant budget gap, partly due to migrant services.
- Denver: Incurred costs between $216 million and $340 million for various services from December 2022 to May 2024. The city council is implementing budget cuts, including from the police and fire departments, to address migrant-related costs.
- Washington, D.C.: Expected to have spent $36.4 million on various services for illegal immigrants by the end of FY 2023.
- El Paso, Los Angeles, and Philadelphia: Also struggling to provide services to newly-arrived illegal immigrants.
View attachment 67575211
Map: Illegal immigration costs California most, $23B, all states $89B - Washington Examiner
Illegal immigration costs taxpayers in all 50 states a total of $89 billion, and California, where an illegal on Thursday was cleared of murdering Kate Steinle despite admitting to the shooting, pays the most at $23 billion, according to a new map of the costs. The website HowMuch.net, working...www.washingtonexaminer.com
Seems you lacked the opportunity to seek illegal refuge.I grew up generational poverty - I never wanted to leave the USA. But again, you are just justifying illegal. You would justify robberies too - anything can be justified right ? They want it, they need it, so they break laws to get it
Sure.they do eat cats and dogs in Haiti .... I think we SHOULD eat cats and dogs in the USA right? just another protein right ?
It’s true in all cases. They do not contribute as much as a citizen does.That's not true in many cases. They often have a higher effective tax rate than most people, including some large corporations and high-income households:
Undocumented Workers Pay Higher Effective Tax Rate than 55 Mega Corporations and Several Billionaires - Americans For Tax Fairness
Today, Americans for Tax Fairness released a new analysis showing that undocumented immigrants pay a higher effective tax rate than 55 large corporations and several of the nation’s wealthiest individuals. The report also found that undocumented immigrants use far fewer federal resources than...americansfortaxfairness.org
Including paying sales and income taxes they also contribute to social security and other systems they're ineligible for and benefit nothing from:
https://itep.org/undocumented-immigrants-taxes-2024/
Then make an argument for why that's the case. I already told you why I disagree and added sources to back up my opinion as well.It’s true in all cases. They do not contribute as much as a citizen does.
that it costs $$$$$$$$$$$$ of US Taxpayer dollars for illegally here people ? that was your point ?You just itemized my point.
I love my country. If it has problems I'm going to stay and be active and vote and work to fix them.Seems you lacked the opportunity to seek illegal refuge.
its not sudden and if Trump came here illegally he needs to be deportedIronic that your sudden enthusiasm for law and order arise from the policies of a felonious Commander-n-Chief.
So are speeders. Do you have a point?Illegal immigrants are by definition, not law abiding. This is objective reality. Rewarding criminal behavior with citizenship is completely retarded.
Illegal immigrants are by definition, not law abiding. This is objective reality.
They are illegal. They don’t Pay most taxes, but still consume services and resources.Then make an argument for why that's the case.
And I pointed out your agreement has no bearing on objective reality.I already told you why I disagree and added sources to back up my opinion as well.
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