Should gays be allowed to serve openly in the military?

[Navy Pride]

You hypocrite.



You agreed with rhapsody when he said homosexuality was a decease. Once again your hypocrisy comes through. To call someone your equal is to accept that they are exacly like you and are entitled to every privilege and right you are.

Here is the 14th Amendment for ya.

I totally agree with that when it comes to rights but not privileges...........Serving in the military is a privilege..........To be a member you have to obey the law.......

 

[Topsez]

Sounds like a personal issue. The problem is that society in general is much more accustom to relating with homosexuals than you are. Therefore discrimination cannot be granted on the basis that YOU are not comfortable working around them. This negates this reason for discrimination.

Actually, there seems to still be a strong aversion towards gays lifestyles... if you recall in the recent elections from 2000 forward gay issues bring conservatives to the polls. My personal issue with openly displayed homosexuality is shared by the vast majority of Americans, and more importantly those who vote and serve in the military. The armed forces have grand traditions that garner respect from the people of America and the military leaders will not blindly through out those traditions for the sake of social experimentation.

Our nation sees gays, especially male gays as abominations of nature with no purpose in life other than sex and self gratification. Gay men are to be protected out of compassion but will never will rise to equality of strait men in the US. Should this happen then the days are numbered before the nation falls to a people of a higher god and rightfully so becasue it is like slapping Mother Nature to rise broken abominations to the level of normal productive citizens.

You feel strongly about the issue and so do I... I feel so strongly about the issue that if in my fifteenth year of service the congress had allowed openly gay men to serve I would have ended my career because I would not feel honor in my service being equated to a level of a gay man. They are simply not the same as strait... I could care less if the military would create gay Navy's, or Army, Air Force, USMC or Coast Guard units of only gay members but not working beside "real men." Damn Caine my brother was disqualified for the draft in 67 for a god damned hernia that he had repaired for $50.00 so how in the hell could you or any sane person endorse gays openly serving in the military? Gay men are seem suited to be qualified for two functions, sex with another male and a door stop and their too damned big for door stops so they have no practical use in public vision. My half brother's son is gay but no one bothered to tell me until I was fifty that he even had a son... because he was too much of an embarassment to mention since he was too big for a doorstop.

Well, in today's Army, Whites Rate Blacks, Blacks Rate Whites. Women Rate Men and Men Rate Women. So I would see no problem with a gay rating a straight. However, due to some level of bigotry that still exists, I could see a problem with a straight rating a gay. But like you said, It wasn't a "show stopper" for having Blacks in the military, therefore, it should not be for allowing gays to serve as well. Therefor discrimination cannot be granted on the basis that a bigot may not be able to fairly rate a gay person. Moving on....

It could happen and the leaders would follow orders but the subordinates that are sickened by the governments decision will leave the army in droves resulting in a draft with draftees subordinate to gay leaders that caused them to be drafted... The gay leaders will be hiding their rainbows or die.

 

[Alex]

I totally agree with that when it comes to rights but not privileges...........Serving in the military is a privilege..........To be a member you have to obey the law.......

You have yet to answer an important question. Why do you feel heterosexuals are more privileged that they can serve in the military and gays cannot?

Here is the 14th Amendment again:

"No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States."

Did you get that? It specifically states "privileges". Is that only good when it fits your needs or does that apply to all citizens of the country? I do not think that you have anything against gays, but I do believe that you feel you are better than them.

 

[Hatuey]

Hatuey makes a good point Navy_Pride. Do you only believe in our Constitution and the 14th Amendment when it suits your needs? All citizens are equal under the law. Where in our Constitution does it say, "...all citizens, except homosexuals..."?

He doesn't belive in the constitution unless it suits him.

 

[Topsez]

He doesn't belive in the constitution unless it suits him.

The military is outside of the constitution. It, the military is under the rules the congress decides... they could decide only left handed midgets could serve and no one could complain.

 

[Navy Pride]

You have yet to answer an important question. Why do you feel heterosexuals are more privileged that they can serve in the military and gays cannot?

Here is the 14th Amendment again:

"No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States."

Did you get that? It specifically states "privileges". Is that only good when it fits your needs or does that apply to all citizens of the country? I do not think that you have anything against gays, but I do believe that you feel you are better than them.

Gays can serve in the military.Just not openly for the many reasons mentioned.....What part of that do you not understand?

 

[Navy Pride]

He doesn't belive in the constitution unless it suits him.

I fought to preserve that constitution for 21 years...How are you doing...

 

[Alex]

Gays can serve in the military.Just not openly for the many reasons mentioned.....What part of that do you not understand?

What part of "They are serving openly" do you not understand?

Tell me your reasons. I can see none that are valid.

 

[Alex]

I fought to preserve that constitution for 21 years...How are you doing...

Only when it suits your needs. Shame on you.

 

[Columbusite]

Actually, there seems to still be a strong aversion towards gays lifestyles... if you recall in the recent elections from 2000 forward gay issues bring conservatives to the polls. My personal issue with openly displayed homosexuality is shared by the vast majority of Americans, and more importantly those who vote and serve in the military. The armed forces have grand traditions that garner respect from the people of America and the military leaders will not blindly through out those traditions for the sake of social experimentation.

Our nation sees gays, especially male gays as abominations of nature with no purpose in life other than sex and self gratification. Gay men are to be protected out of compassion but will never will rise to equality of strait men in the US. Should this happen then the days are numbered before the nation falls to a people of a higher god and rightfully so becasue it is like slapping Mother Nature to rise broken abominations to the level of normal productive citizens.

You feel strongly about the issue and so do I... I feel so strongly about the issue that if in my fifteenth year of service the congress had allowed openly gay men to serve I would have ended my career because I would not feel honor in my service being equated to a level of a gay man. They are simply not the same as strait... I could care less if the military would create gay Navy's, or Army, Air Force, USMC or Coast Guard units of only gay members but not working beside "real men." Damn Caine my brother was disqualified for the draft in 67 for a god damned hernia that he had repaired for $50.00 so how in the hell could you or any sane person endorse gays openly serving in the military? Gay men are seem suited to be qualified for two functions, sex with another male and a door stop and their too damned big for door stops so they have no practical use in public vision. My half brother's son is gay but no one bothered to tell me until I was fifty that he even had a son... because he was too much of an embarassment to mention since he was too big for a doorstop.

It could happen and the leaders would follow orders but the subordinates that are sickened by the governments decision will leave the army in droves resulting in a draft with draftees subordinate to gay leaders that caused them to be drafted... The gay leaders will be hiding their rainbows or die.

Wow, just wow. This post is prefectly displays the kind of irrational nonsense that holds a nation back. The comment on social experimentation doesn't make sense because gays are already serving in the military. I'm expected to believe that these gay people will now, if they honestly answer a question regarding their orientation if they wish to, will all of a sudden start hitting on same-sex members all of a sudden or what?

Now what is the gay lifestyle and what is the straight lifestyle? To use such a term shows you live in your own bubble. Both of the above do not exist in reality, only in your imagination. And why should anyone care what the majority thinks? The majority has condoned everything from slavery to child labor, why should we care about their assumptions? You may think you're better than me, but no governmental stamp of approval changes the fact that we are both human beings. The difference being how we live and I choose to accept reality and the facts and not to rant on about a "higher god" which means as much as "hptpdjf", ie nothing. Unless you can give a detailed description of this "higher god", one which if it created the world also created the gay mammals that populate it. For them to do what is natural for them to do, be gay mammals, and to call them "abominations of nature" is the height of absurdity. And since when did something have to be natural to be good? What the hell are you doing on the internet then?

If anything you have demonstrated that it is you that is not my equal as you have taken it upon yourself to wallow in ignorace instead of seeking to heighten your intellectual capacity. I'll go out on a limb and guess that your half-brother didn't want to tell you about his gay son because he didn't want to see you embarass yourself with an irrational, heavily emotional display.

 

[Inuyasha]

The military is outside of the constitution. It, the military is under the rules the congress decides... they could decide only left handed midgets could serve and no one could complain.

Left handed midgets!!!??? Now that is revolting and evil. I absolutely HATE left handed midgets with a passion and they are secretly trying to take over the world. Something must be done!! What's next....left handed gay midgets? Heaven forbid.

 

[Hatuey]

The military is outside of the constitution. It, the military is under the rules the congress decides... they could decide only left handed midgets could serve and no one could complain.

Are you ****ing kidding me?

Congress is subject to the constitution. If Congress is subject to the constitution so is the military.

 

[Navy Pride]

What part of "They are serving openly" do you not understand?

Tell me your reasons. I can see none that are valid.

I don't believe you..............

I grow weary of posting them over and over again.......Go back and read the thread and you will see them for yourself............

 

[1069]

They may be serving openly, but the law still says they can't, so that's not good enough.
Their right to serve openly needs to be universal, and their equal status needs to be protected by law.

 

[Navy Pride]

They may be serving openly, but the law still says they can't, so that's not good enough.
Their right to serve openly needs to be universal, and their equal status needs to be protected by law.

Trust me they are not serving openly.Its against the law.......Any Department Head or Commanding officer would be Court martialed for allowing that to happen..........

 

[Alex]

Left handed midgets!!!??? Now that is revolting and evil. I absolutely HATE left handed midgets with a passion and they are secretly trying to take over the world. Something must be done!! What's next....left handed gay midgets? Heaven forbid.

It is all a part of the Left-handed Midget agenda.

 

[Alex]

Trust me they are not serving openly.Its against the law.......Any Department Head or Commanding officer would be Court martialed for allowing that to happen..........

You are living in a time long gone Navy_Pride. White-heterosexual males no longer rule the world. Get used to it.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

No I don't..............I don't know if gays are born that way and neither do you............I know African Americans are born that way........There is no argument about that..........African Americans can not change what they are..........Gays can...there are documented cases to prove it.............

There is more to sexual orientation than who one has sex with. That is a behavioral response to sexual orientation. Sexual orientation is more about attraction and sexual response.

Also, I'd be happy to debate the 'change in sexual orientation' argument (again), but that would be off topic, here.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

If you have not served then you have no clue what it is like to serve in the military

DADT is the law of the land.............

Here's a question for you, Navy. Since DADT is that law of the land, how do you feel about homosexuals wanting this to be overturned and trying to do something about it?

 

[SpooK]

I am getting very disgusted with random people in favor of openly gay people in the military, however ignore everything about the thread and just continue to say something like "gays should be able to serve in the military and everyone is equal". Then people make arguments to go against it. They wait awhile, then repeat. That seems to be the left wing tactic on this thread.

How about someone give me an answer on this instead of waiting then later on saying oh i think gays should be able to serve openly.

For starters, people in the military are not guarenteed freedom of speech and other rights that are guareneteed from the constitution. All military members are subject to the rules and regulations of the UCMJ. Many of these rules and regulations contradict the constitution.

Ultimately, what it comes down to is it will decrease overall military effectivness. Ive said it 100 times now: whether it is morally right or wrong doesnt matter. Military effectiveness is the bottom line. If people would feel uncomfortable around openly gay people, wouldnt trust them, or whatever the case may be -- it will decrease overall effectiveness.

I am yet to see someone claim that military effectiveness isnt the number one priority.

Thoughts?

 

[SpooK]

Here's a question for you, Navy. Since DADT is that law of the land, how do you feel about homosexuals wanting this to be overturned and trying to do something about it?

The overall effectiveness of the military comes before personal desires.

 

[Alex]

I am getting very disgusted with random people in favor of openly gay people in the military, however ignore everything about the thread and just continue to say something like "gays should be able to serve in the military and everyone is equal". Then people make arguments to go against it. They wait awhile, then repeat. That seems to be the left wing tactic on this thread.

How about someone give me an answer on this instead of waiting then later on saying oh i think gays should be able to serve openly.



Thoughts?

Why wouldn't the military be effective with gays? I served openly gay and everything went very smoothly. Your argument is null because you have no rational reasoning for it.

 

[SpooK]

Why wouldn't the military be effective with gays? I served openly gay and everything went very smoothly. Your argument is null because you have no rational reasoning for it.

Well, I dont know how you served openly gay without being kicked out. I am stationed on an aircraft carrier and I dont know (or know anyone who knows) one openly gay person on the ship.

How do I have no rational reasoning. Have you read anything on the thread or do practice selective reading?

Whether you, myself, or anyone feels it is right or wrong, some people do not trust, do not feell comfortable and do not want to be around gay people. Again, allow me to clarify, whether you or anyone else feels it is right or wrong....... people in the military still feel that way and it will decrease overall military effectiveness.

 

[DeeJayH]

You hypocrite.



You agreed with rhapsody when he said homosexuality was a decease. Once again your hypocrisy comes through. To call someone your equal is to accept that they are exacly like you and are entitled to every privilege and right you are.

Here is the 14th Amendment for ya.

but the 'founders' of our constitution did NOT suffer homosexuals, witches nor any others that fall under a similar umbrella
perhaps you should consider the context of the original framers
they were hardly 'open-minded liberals'.

 

[Caine]

Actually, there seems to still be a strong aversion towards gays lifestyles... if you recall in the recent elections from 2000 forward gay issues bring conservatives to the polls. My personal issue with openly displayed homosexuality is shared by the vast majority of Americans, and more importantly those who vote and serve in the military. The armed forces have grand traditions that garner respect from the people of America and the military leaders will not blindly through out those traditions for the sake of social experimentation.

Discrimination cannot be granted on the basis that you and other Americans find gays to be "different". Your argument went nowhere.

Our nation sees gays, especially male gays as abominations of nature with no purpose in life other than sex and self gratification.

Since when? Since when have they seen gays only as perverts? I want some results with at least 51% stating this.

Gay men are to be protected out of compassion but will never will rise to equality of strait men in the US. Should this happen then the days are numbered before the nation falls to a people of a higher god and rightfully so becasue it is like slapping Mother Nature to rise broken abominations to the level of normal productive citizens.

More Bigotry and nothing more, this excuse falls under the "I hate fags" level.

You feel strongly about the issue and so do I... I feel so strongly about the issue that if in my fifteenth year of service the congress had allowed openly gay men to serve I would have ended my career because I would not feel honor in my service being equated to a level of a gay man.

Wow... shows how patriotic you are. "For the US!... but only if its a straight Army!!!" Thats well... gay! You are showing that patriotism has nothing to do with love and defense of country huh? Its all about you and not the needs of the military and country huh? Yeah.... foot in mouth.

They are simply not the same as strait...

No **** sherlock...

I could care less if the military would create gay Navy's, or Army, Air Force, USMC or Coast Guard units of only gay members but not working beside "real men."

I'll file this under "I hate fags". Moving on....

Damn Caine my brother was disqualified for the draft in 67 for a god damned hernia that he had repaired for $50.00 so how in the hell could you or any sane person endorse gays openly serving in the military?

WTF Does this have to do with ANYTHING?

Gay men are seem suited to be qualified for two functions, sex with another male and a door stop and their too damned big for door stops so they have no practical use in public vision.

I'll file this under "I hate fags". Moving on....

My half brother's son is gay but no one bothered to tell me until I was fifty that he even had a son... because he was too much of an embarassment to mention since he was too big for a doorstop.

I'll file this under "Me and my entire family hate fags, even if they end up in my family". Moving on.....

It could happen and the leaders would follow orders but the subordinates that are sickened by the governments decision will leave the army in droves

Good riddance, didn't need some fake *** patriot in the Army anyways. Friggin' ******s

resulting in a draft with draftees subordinate to gay leaders that caused them to be drafted... The gay leaders will be hiding their rainbows or die.

I'll file this one under "I hate fags and endorse killing them".

So.... after working out the kinks in TopSez's master plan. I have shown him that all his "excellent reasons" are based in Bigotry and "I hate fags" mentality. So.. does anyone else care to try to give me one good reason why gays should be denied the privilege to serve in our military without hiding who they are and lying?

So far the only reasons are.
1. Some people who have to take communal showers will be "uncomfortable"
2. "I hate fags"

Any takers????