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Should every state have the abortion issue on the ballot come november for the citizens to vote on instead of the politicians making the decision?

bongsaway said:
If the issue is not on the ballot for the citizens to vote on, then it would be safe to say it is not the will of the people to ban abortion, it is the will of the politicians.
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Considering most states have rules regarding when ballot referendums/questions must be approved by - I’d say that window is likely closed.
 
After Kansas, I think they'll do everything they can to keep it off the ballot. I know in my state it's too late to consider, maybe next year.

It's so gross to me that my lack of freedom has been imposed locally and equally as gross that it could be voted on. It should've just been protected.
 
YES ........
 
Ginger Ale said:
After Kansas, I think they'll do everything they can to keep it off the ballot. I know in my state it's too late to consider, maybe next year.

It's so gross to me that my lack of freedom has been imposed locally and equally as gross that it could be voted on. It should've just been protected.
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demand a special vote .......... voting on a right to health care is never too expensive
 
Ginger Ale said:
After Kansas, I think they'll do everything they can to keep it off the ballot. I know in my state it's too late to consider, maybe next year.

It's so gross to me that my lack of freedom has been imposed locally and equally as gross that it could be voted on. It should've just been protected.
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They have been trying. The Republican-controlled election committee attempted to keep the abortion question off the ballot in Michigan, but the Michigan Supreme Court overruled it, thankfully. Jim Justice of West Virginia also basically said "hell no" to the question of whether that would be on the November ballot.
 
Razoo said:
demand a special vote .......... voting on a right to health care is never too expensive
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In my state, we had a petition for this year's ballot that never came to fruition. They said it would probably be on the next cycle, it was too late to get enough circulation for sigs.
 
bongsaway said:
If the issue is not on the ballot for the citizens to vote on, then it would be safe to say it is not the will of the people to ban abortion, it is the will of the politicians.
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That would be okay if we’re a direct democracy. But as a representative republic, we elect our state representatives to represent us and federally, representatives in the house to also represent us nationally. We have the power to kick them out and replace them although we rarely do. We must get mighty angry at them to replace them which occasionally happens as it did with congress in 1994, 2006,2010 and 2018. But that’s rare or use to be rare as the Democrats controlled congress for 58 out of 62 years, 1933-1994 including 40 straight years 1955-1994.

State wise, I live in Georgia and it’s in Georgia where I have a say and it’s in Georgia that state politics affect me. What the other 49 states do have no effect on me or the people in Georgia. I help to decide the policies of Georgia, I have no say on what other state policies are. Nor should I. Since I have no say, what the other states do policy wise is irrelevant. It’s up to the people of the other 49 states to decide their own policies or politics. I have no business pushing my or Georgia’s politics on them. To try to do so is me telling these other states I know what’s best for them, that they don’t know squat what’s good or bad for them. That I think is high minded.

Every one of those other 49 states and in Georgia, the people have the power to kick out their elected representatives if they have a mind to. They can change them. As a representative republic, that’s how this works. If you don’t like the way your representative votes or his policies, vote against him, let the people decide.
 
bongsaway said:
If the issue is not on the ballot for the citizens to vote on, then it would be safe to say it is not the will of the people to ban abortion, it is the will of the politicians.
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Sure. I'm good with that.
 
Perotista said:
That would be okay if we’re a direct democracy. But as a representative republic, we elect our state representatives to represent us and federally, representatives in the house to also represent us nationally. We have the power to kick them out and replace them although we rarely do. We must get mighty angry at them to replace them which occasionally happens as it did with congress in 1994, 2006,2010 and 2018. But that’s rare or use to be rare as the Democrats controlled congress for 58 out of 62 years, 1933-1994 including 40 straight years 1955-1994.

State wise, I live in Georgia and it’s in Georgia where I have a say and it’s in Georgia that state politics affect me. What the other 49 states do have no effect on me or the people in Georgia. I help to decide the policies of Georgia, I have no say on what other state policies are. Nor should I. Since I have no say, what the other states do policy wise is irrelevant. It’s up to the people of the other 49 states to decide their own policies or politics. I have no business pushing my or Georgia’s politics on them. To try to do so is me telling these other states I know what’s best for them, that they don’t know squat what’s good or bad for them. That I think is high minded.

Every one of those other 49 states and in Georgia, the people have the power to kick out their elected representatives if they have a mind to. They can change them. As a representative republic, that’s how this works. If you don’t like the way your representative votes or his policies, vote against him, let the people decide.
Click to expand...
That would be all well and good if candidates actually stuck to what they say and not change in the middle of a campaign because they see their stance is not popular with the voters as a few of the hard core abortion supporters. They will say they changed their view and then get into office and show their true colors just like two of our current justices did with abortion. Settled law with precedence. We see how much those words mattered.

Anyway the question is should the voters have a chance to vote on keeping abortion or not. Let the people decide. I think every bill that is up for congress, every representative should post the question on their website for the people to vote on and then take our vote to congress, not his or her vote.
 
Perotista said:
That would be okay if we’re a direct democracy. But as a representative republic, we elect our state representatives to represent us and federally, representatives in the house to also represent us nationally. We have the power to kick them out and replace them although we rarely do. We must get mighty angry at them to replace them which occasionally happens as it did with congress in 1994, 2006,2010 and 2018. But that’s rare or use to be rare as the Democrats controlled congress for 58 out of 62 years, 1933-1994 including 40 straight years 1955-1994.

State wise, I live in Georgia and it’s in Georgia where I have a say and it’s in Georgia that state politics affect me. What the other 49 states do have no effect on me or the people in Georgia. I help to decide the policies of Georgia, I have no say on what other state policies are. Nor should I. Since I have no say, what the other states do policy wise is irrelevant. It’s up to the people of the other 49 states to decide their own policies or politics. I have no business pushing my or Georgia’s politics on them. To try to do so is me telling these other states I know what’s best for them, that they don’t know squat what’s good or bad for them. That I think is high minded.

Every one of those other 49 states and in Georgia, the people have the power to kick out their elected representatives if they have a mind to. They can change them. As a representative republic, that’s how this works. If you don’t like the way your representative votes or his policies, vote against him, let the people decide.
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Our constitution should protect our freedom in all 50. A patchwork of states imposing religious laws on women that constrict their freedom. right to privacy and their healthcare and welfare is the stage for another Civil War. It seems to me the Republicans finally found the Civil War button and they're pushing it repeatedly and it's dividing our country.

Women's rights deserved federal protection. We've had it for 50 years. Taking it away in any state, is my business as a woman, regardless. It goes against the constitution, and against the Preamble of the United States to provide general welfare. The Jewish women will also sue for the right to their religious beliefs which differ from the Christian laws imposed when it comes to these bans.
 
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Ginger Ale said:
Our constitution should protect our freedom in all 50. A patchwork of states imposing religious laws on women that constrict their freedom. right to privacy and their healthcare and welfare is the stage for another Civil War. It seems to me the Republicans finally found the Civil War button and they're pushing it repeatedly and it's dividing our country.

Women's rights deserved federal protection. We've had it for 50 years. Taking it away in any state, is my business as a woman, regardless. It goes against the constitution, and against the Preamble of the United States to provide general welfare. The Jewish women will also sue for the right to their religious beliefs which differ from the Christian laws imposed when it comes to these bans.
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standing ovation .......
 
Perotista said:
That would be okay if we’re a direct democracy. But as a representative republic, we elect our state representatives to represent us and federally, representatives in the house to also represent us nationally. We have the power to kick them out and replace them although we rarely do. We must get mighty angry at them to replace them which occasionally happens as it did with congress in 1994, 2006,2010 and 2018. But that’s rare or use to be rare as the Democrats controlled congress for 58 out of 62 years, 1933-1994 including 40 straight years 1955-1994.

State wise, I live in Georgia and it’s in Georgia where I have a say and it’s in Georgia that state politics affect me. What the other 49 states do have no effect on me or the people in Georgia. I help to decide the policies of Georgia, I have no say on what other state policies are. Nor should I. Since I have no say, what the other states do policy wise is irrelevant. It’s up to the people of the other 49 states to decide their own policies or politics. I have no business pushing my or Georgia’s politics on them. To try to do so is me telling these other states I know what’s best for them, that they don’t know squat what’s good or bad for them. That I think is high minded.

Every one of those other 49 states and in Georgia, the people have the power to kick out their elected representatives if they have a mind to. They can change them. As a representative republic, that’s how this works. If you don’t like the way your representative votes or his policies, vote against him, let the people decide.
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Actually, they do have an effect on you.

For example, if Georgia were to decide that same-sex marriage was not going to be legal in Georgia, but other states say it is, then someone goes to another state and gets married (or moves from another state), are they married or not? Could a gay married person run up a bunch of debt in their spouse's name, then move to Georgia to avoid their financial obligations?
 
bongsaway said:
If the issue is not on the ballot for the citizens to vote on, then it would be safe to say it is not the will of the people to ban abortion, it is the will of the politicians.
Click to expand...

in theory womans rights should NEVER be on the ballot, they should be protected at the federal/national level and its sad that we are "currently" not doing that, how low could America sink?

that being said, my answer is YES, pending the rules of each state it should be on the ballots.
ignorant of what each individual state may require I think anything that's not a basic time limit should be reviewed so that it can be on the ballot.
But i do honestly think this is all temporary. EVentually I do believe that woman rights will go back to being protected at the federal/national level, for the sake of America it has too.
 
I say it should be on a federal level ballot in the interest of all women and continuity. The USA does not need 30-50 different versions of women's rights and women's right to choose.

This state's rights crap is coming out of ALEC as they attempt to take over every state legislature to put in place the Koch ALEC style of fascism. Apparently state legislatures and certain local governments must be easier to conquer.
 
bongsaway said:
That would be all well and good if candidates actually stuck to what they say and not change in the middle of a campaign because they see their stance is not popular with the voters as a few of the hard core abortion supporters. They will say they changed their view and then get into office and show their true colors just like two of our current justices did with abortion. Settled law with precedence. We see how much those words mattered.

Anyway the question is should the voters have a chance to vote on keeping abortion or not. Let the people decide. I think every bill that is up for congress, every representative should post the question on their website for the people to vote on and then take our vote to congress, not his or her vote.
Click to expand...
In a way what you’re advocating is direct democracy. We know for the most part how Republicans and democrats will vote on the bills before congress. Partisanship reigns. Each party must convince a certain amount of swing voters to vote for them. The party’s bases are loyal and will vote for their party’s candidates regardless of who that candidate is or what stances on the issues they hold.



If a state constitution has voter referendums in it let the citizens of that state get together and have the abortion issue placed on the ballot. The problem is those for legal abortion all have different opinions on it, not whether abortion should be legal, but what restrictions should be placed on when and how abortion is legal.



Examples, 80% of all Americans think abortion should be legal in the case of rape, the health of the mother, incest. That falls to 60% of all Americans who think abortion should be legal in all circumstances during the first trimester. Only 28% of al all Americans think abortion should be legal up to the end of the second trimester. 19% think abortion should be legal with no restrictions or during the third trimester. Which one do you place on your ballot? There no consensus among democrats or those who think abortion should be legal.



https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/where-americans-stand-on-abortion-in-5-charts/



Graham’s bills on abortion, banning abortion after 15 weeks falls into the 60% approve category of all Americans. But both Democrats and most Republicans are totally against it. The Democrats want no restriction, abortions being legal until birth witch has the support of only 19% of the population. Republicans basically want all abortion illegal, that is but 13% of all Americans. Which category or restriction do you support, and which one should be on the ballot?

For me, I’ve always said the woman should decide. But abortion has never been a hot issue or an issue that decides how I’ll vote. I voted for pro-life and for pro-choice candidates in the past. This year I plan on voting for a pro-life candidate for governor, a pro-choice candidate for the House of Representatives and third party, Chase Oliver for the senate. I have no idea whether he’s pro-choice or pro-life. I just disliked the heck out of both Walker and Warnock, so I’ll vote against both. On the ballot, I’d vote for option A abortion legal only in the case rape, the health of the mother, incest. I’d also vote for option B abortion should be legal in all circumstances during the first trimester. Option C, I’d probably vote for, but with some reservations and deep thought, abortion should be legal up to the end of the second trimester. Option D abortion should be legal with no restrictions or during the third trimester to include partial birth abortions. Probably not. But it seems most Democrats only want option D.

I’m a swing voter, not loyal to either major party. In fact, I highly disdain both major parties as I think they’re responsible for all the problems this country not getting solved with their no compromise attitude and unwillingness to play the game of give and take or moderate their views to suit most Americans. Both major parties have become way too extreme for my blood and for more and more Americans as both major parties are shrinking. Independents, swing voters has risen from 30% of the electorate in 2006 to 42% today if Gallup and Pew Research are to be believed.
 
Ginger Ale said:
Our constitution should protect our freedom in all 50. A patchwork of states imposing religious laws on women that constrict their freedom. right to privacy and their healthcare and welfare is the stage for another Civil War. It seems to me the Republicans finally found the Civil War button and they're pushing it repeatedly and it's dividing our country.

Women's rights deserved federal protection. We've had it for 50 years. Taking it away in any state, is my business as a woman, regardless. It goes against the constitution, and against the Preamble of the United States to provide general welfare. The Jewish women will also sue for the right to their religious beliefs which differ from the Christian laws imposed when it comes to these bans.
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Article I, section 8 lays out what power the congress or the federal government has. Plus, amendments, what power isn’t listed if not prohibited by Article I, section 10 or the amendments, that power is left to the states. Abortion isn’t in the Constitution and thus left to the states. The Constitution can be changed by the amendment process, if you want abortion to be constitution, a federal power, then the amendment route is the way to go.
 
Perotista said:
Article I, section 8 lays out what power the congress or the federal government has. Plus, amendments, what power isn’t listed if not prohibited by Article I, section 10 or the amendments, that power is left to the states. Abortion isn’t in the Constitution and thus left to the states. The Constitution can be changed by the amendment process, if you want abortion to be constitution, a federal power, then the amendment route is the way to go.
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It’s actually left to the individual. Not the states
 
Perotista said:
In a way what you’re advocating is direct democracy. We know for the most part how Republicans and democrats will vote on the bills before congress. Partisanship reigns. Each party must convince a certain amount of swing voters to vote for them. The party’s bases are loyal and will vote for their party’s candidates regardless of who that candidate is or what stances on the issues they hold.



If a state constitution has voter referendums in it let the citizens of that state get together and have the abortion issue placed on the ballot. The problem is those for legal abortion all have different opinions on it, not whether abortion should be legal, but what restrictions should be placed on when and how abortion is legal.



Examples, 80% of all Americans think abortion should be legal in the case of rape, the health of the mother, incest. That falls to 60% of all Americans who think abortion should be legal in all circumstances during the first trimester. Only 28% of al all Americans think abortion should be legal up to the end of the second trimester. 19% think abortion should be legal with no restrictions or during the third trimester. Which one do you place on your ballot? There no consensus among democrats or those who think abortion should be legal.



https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/where-americans-stand-on-abortion-in-5-charts/



Graham’s bills on abortion, banning abortion after 15 weeks falls into the 60% approve category of all Americans. But both Democrats and most Republicans are totally against it. The Democrats want no restriction, abortions being legal until birth witch has the support of only 19% of the population. Republicans basically want all abortion illegal, that is but 13% of all Americans. Which category or restriction do you support, and which one should be on the ballot?

For me, I’ve always said the woman should decide. But abortion has never been a hot issue or an issue that decides how I’ll vote. I voted for pro-life and for pro-choice candidates in the past. This year I plan on voting for a pro-life candidate for governor, a pro-choice candidate for the House of Representatives and third party, Chase Oliver for the senate. I have no idea whether he’s pro-choice or pro-life. I just disliked the heck out of both Walker and Warnock, so I’ll vote against both. On the ballot, I’d vote for option A abortion legal only in the case rape, the health of the mother, incest. I’d also vote for option B abortion should be legal in all circumstances during the first trimester. Option C, I’d probably vote for, but with some reservations and deep thought, abortion should be legal up to the end of the second trimester. Option D abortion should be legal with no restrictions or during the third trimester to include partial birth abortions. Probably not. But it seems most Democrats only want option D.

I’m a swing voter, not loyal to either major party. In fact, I highly disdain both major parties as I think they’re responsible for all the problems this country not getting solved with their no compromise attitude and unwillingness to play the game of give and take or moderate their views to suit most Americans. Both major parties have become way too extreme for my blood and for more and more Americans as both major parties are shrinking. Independents, swing voters has risen from 30% of the electorate in 2006 to 42% today if Gallup and Pew Research are to be believed.
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Put all options on the ballot.as for the rest, (y)(y)(y)
 
I had planned to start a separate thread on a related issue- but was too lazy :)

The issue of "let the voters of each state decide" the abortion issue has been the mantra of the religious conservatives who have championed to over turn Roe v. Wade since the day the decision was first issued.

There was a long article in the New Yorker last month detailing how republicans in Ohio have utterly gerrymandered state districts so that it absolutely insures a veto proof republican majority in both our state house and senate. Those bodies in turn have ceded the issue of abortion to the ultra religious
right. The draconian abortion law that made national headlines a few months ago when a 10 year old rape victim had to travel to Indiana for an abortion is only supported by about 35% of Ohioans. And there is in the works a new bill to impose a 100% total ban- which is supported by less than 15% of Ohioans.

We have no option of a referendum on the issue as republicans won't allow it. And there is presently no way to vote them out given the gerrymandering.

In short, the "let the state voters decide" is a farce. At least in Ohio.
 
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