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Should David Irving be in jail?

How do you feel about Irving's prison sentence?

  • The prison sentence is too long.

    Votes: 1 5.3%
  • The prison sentence is too short.

    Votes: 2 10.5%
  • The prison sentence is just right

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • This should not be a crime.

    Votes: 10 52.6%
  • This should not be a crime, but I don't mind the fact that he's in prison.

    Votes: 6 31.6%

  • Total voters
    19

Gandhi>Bush

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David Irving, the infamous "historian," has been sentenced to 3 years in prison for publicly denying the holocaust's happening. The events took place in Australia.

Do you think such a verdict is morally justifiable? If so, why? If not, why not?
 

RightinNYC

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Like I voted, no, it shouldnt be a crime, but if the guy were to go to jail for some other crime and have his pooper "thoroughly investigated like no other historian before," I wouldn't exactly be throwing a tissy fit.
 

Scarecrow Akhbar

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Rights don't exist, but if they did, one of the most absolutely inviolable rights would be the freedom to be an idiot. David Irving not only exercised that fully, he got paid by other even dumber idiots who bought his books.

Probably the only dumber people than the Holocaust deniers are the Germans who made it illegal to say the Holocaust didn't happen. They clearly didn't learn anything from their most famous countryman.

Oh, and the verdict was perfectly "justifiable". It is against the law to deny the Holocaust, and Irving did exactly that. It's just a stupid law the Germans should be afraid of.
 
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Picaro

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Irivng is not being prosecuted for Holocaust Denial. He's charged with promoting Nazism. The Austrians have several Denazification statutes, and have them for good reason. He's not being charged because of his opinions, as many seem to think.

Yes it's justifiable; he went there to speak to a Neo-Nazi group, and he is a Nazi sympathizer, always has been, and he also knew he could be arrested. Screw him; he's nobody to snivel over, and he's no martyr.
 
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Picaro

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Before the usual 10 pages of whinging about poor ole Dave, here is the statute he's being held under:

"§ 3g. Wer sich auf andere als die in den §§ 3a bis 3f
bezeichnete Weise im nationalsozialistischen Sinn betätigt, wird,
sofern die Tat nicht nach einer anderen Bestimmung strenger strafbar
ist, mit Freiheitsstrafe von einem bis zu zehn Jahren, bei besonderer
Gefährlichkeit des Täters oder der Betätigung bis zu 20 Jahren
bestraft."


And, anybody can look up his history of hanging out with Nazis, including his attempts at lying. Holocaust denial is all about resurrecting Hitler and the National Socialists image in order to promote Neo-Nazism and White Nationalism; deniers are not revisionists, no matter that they lie and claim otherwise.
 

Korimyr the Rat

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He's scum, and I don't think there's any credible doubt for that.

However, this idea that a representative government can legally prohibit political parties and define speech-- especially political speech-- as a criminal activity is unconscionable.

If it wouldn't cause the man to roll in his grave, I might drag out the classic Niemöller quote; it applies as surely to Irving as it did to Niemöller himself.
 

Kandahar

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Why make him into an international martyr by putting him in jail for voicing his opinion? Just ignore him...
 

dragonslayer

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Gandhi>Bush said:
David Irving, the infamous "historian," has been sentenced to 3 years in prison for publicly denying the holocaust's happening. The events took place in Australia.

Do you think such a verdict is morally justifiable? If so, why? If not, why not?
come on get real. they have freedom of speech in Austrailia. Irving went to prison because of his unlawful behavior. It had nothing to with what he was saying, it had to do with what he was doing. Robbery, burglarie, assault.

I know that David Irving is a very stupid man. Only a truly stupid person would claim the holacaust did not happen.
 

Gardener

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I don't think jail is the right approach.

I say, just just lock him in a room with 6 or 7 JDL members for a half hour or so.


It's always easier to spew the hatred when you are protected from the natural responses to it. If a KKK member is serious about his or her opinions, instead of hiding behind the police protection, they should stand on a street corner in Compton and let er rip. Same with antisemites, Fred Phelpsians or the members of any other hate group. If there was no protection for the haters and they had to face the people they are harming directly, maybe they would learn a little lesson.
 

Scarecrow Akhbar

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Picaro said:
Before the usual 10 pages of whinging about poor ole Dave, here is the statute he's being held under:

"§ 3g. Wer sich auf andere als die in den §§ 3a bis 3f
bezeichnete Weise im nationalsozialistischen Sinn betätigt, wird,
sofern die Tat nicht nach einer anderen Bestimmung strenger strafbar
ist, mit Freiheitsstrafe von einem bis zu zehn Jahren, bei besonderer
Gefährlichkeit des Täters oder der Betätigung bis zu 20 Jahren
bestraft."


And, anybody can look up his history of hanging out with Nazis, including his attempts at lying. Holocaust denial is all about resurrecting Hitler and the National Socialists image in order to promote Neo-Nazism and White Nationalism; deniers are not revisionists, no matter that they lie and claim otherwise.
Maybe you could translate the krautese into a civilized tongue...like maybe the language this board is using?

Besides that, it's damn silly to destroy freedom in an attempt to prevent people from having wrong opinions about Austria's second most famous son, right?
 

Seeker

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Denying the Holocaust is a crime, but it's not murder. I'd give him just 1 year.
 

Gandhi>Bush

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dragonslayer said:
come on get real. they have freedom of speech in Austrailia. Irving went to prison because of his unlawful behavior. It had nothing to with what he was saying, it had to do with what he was doing. Robbery, burglarie, assault.

I know that David Irving is a very stupid man. Only a truly stupid person would claim the holacaust did not happen.
Ohh my, I meant Austria. My apologies.
 

Deegan

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Gandhi>Bush said:
Ohh my, I meant Austria. My apologies.

Hmmm, what a coincidence to see you started this thread "Gandhi"!:doh

I would not honestly compare this situation with one that may occur here in the states, or anywhere else for that matter. I suspect that great care must be taken in this region of the world, as to not make the same mistakes that have shamed this region in the past. So I guess my answer is this, there, I can certainly understand their hard line, here, no way, it just would not be rational, or helpful.
 

ludahai

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Seeker said:
Denying the Holocaust is a crime, but it's not murder. I'd give him just 1 year.
But SHOULD it be a crime? Sure, it is horrible. It happened. It is like Japanese denying the Rape of Nanjing and the other horrible crimes committed by the Imperial Japanese Army. However, should this be illegal? I don't believe it should.
 

Deegan

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Gandhi>Bush said:
I hope this is a joke.
So do I, but at every opportunity, there you are, willing to give your anti-Semitic view points.:doh
 

Seeker

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ludahai said:
But SHOULD it be a crime? Sure, it is horrible. It happened. It is like Japanese denying the Rape of Nanjing and the other horrible crimes committed by the Imperial Japanese Army. However, should this be illegal? I don't believe it should.
Denying the Holocaust is a crime, but it's not murder. I'd give him just 1 year.
Anyone who denies the Holocaust is a fool. Even if it didn't happen, and it did, it's a good lesson to the world.
 

RightinNYC

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Deegan said:
So do I, but at every opportunity, there you are, willing to give your anti-Semitic view points.:doh
How on earth is this thread or anything in it anti-semitic?
 

nkgupta80

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no he shouldn't be jailed. You have the right to deny the holocaust, just like the KKK has a right to exist. I guess it is delicate in that area of the world, but speaking from the first amendment point of view, it should not be illegal.
 

Scarecrow Akhbar

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Austria is a funny place. Outside of a few lunatics, there's no one there that would consider any sort of return of National Socialism. However, the people in there are still horribly anti-semitic and racist. Just recently, a film opened to crowds cheering it's depiction of massacres by Americans and evil jewish doctors.

"Valley of the Deluded Easily Led Muslim Terrorist Wannabes".

Methinks Europe is so beset by jealousy of the US that it can't see where the real enemy is.
 
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