Should congress pass a law subsidizing gas prices until the Ukraine issue calms down?

[Peacenik]

It is equal to about 1% of revenue in states...probably less than that in the federal government.(Less than 40B total)

The governments can't find pet projects to cut to give citizens relief? 1%.

Bullshit.

We can't afford any tax cuts. We couldn't afford that last one. The government doesn't even collect enough revenue as it is to pay for the federal budget, thanks to Trump's tax-cut-for-the-rich. Cutting taxes sounds great to anyone who doesn't care about the federal budget but only their own checkbook. Selfishness is no way to run a country.

 

[BirdinHand]

We can't afford any tax cuts. We couldn't afford that last one. The government doesn't even collect enough revenue as it is to pay for the federal budget, thanks to Trump's tax-cut-for-the-rich. Cutting taxes sounds great to anyone who doesn't care about the federal budget but only their own checkbook. Selfishness is no way to run a country.

Federal budget has more than enough bloat to afford the $.18/gallon consumer gas tax to be suspended for a bit

 

[Peacenik]

Why is the consumer always the one asked to make "cuts"?

Why can't government cut back THEIR spending and give Americans back some of THEIR money by cutting the gas tax?

NO to a subsidy that equates to MORE government spending.

What government spending do you think can be cut?

If enough is cut to balance the budget, a recession would ensue.

 

[ttwtt78640]

If only the world were so simple.

There is nothing wrong with saying yes to a subsidy for low income people but no to a general one which would also go to gas-wasters who seem to have plenty of money to burn on frivolous jack-rabbit starts and races up to the next red light.

When we see everybody saving gas with moderate starts and coasting to a visible red light ahead, instead of racing everybody else up to it, jockeying for position, then we will know that high gas prices have become a real concern for the mass public.

OK, but what specific federal government spending would you cut to add this new (and as yet undefined) subsidy?

 

[Peacenik]

They can slash projects, etc. I'm sure that states can find ways to cut 1% of their budgets if they looked hard enough.

Between the state and federal taxes, you're talking $.40+ per gallon for most consumers. That would be a huge help for people that are being impacted by these absurd increases. Even if only for 6 months or a year...it would help alleviate some of the pressure on kitchen table budgets.

It is wrong to be subsidizing frivolous people who do not budget their ample income very well. Any tweaking of the general gas taxes subsidizes everyone. Any subsidy should go to low income people only. Maybe give them limited gas price credits for sending in gas receipts if they qualify as low income.

Any help should go to the people who really need it, not everyone.

 

[Peacenik]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure every public transit system is subsidized. Is there a single one that actually pays for itself with ridership fees?

And they are worth it in reduced pollution and energy consumption. Mass transit also enables more workers to be more productive, a good thing for America.

 

[Peacenik]

Literally sixty seconds later:

And I support both positions. They are not contradictory.

 

[Peacenik]

How about states remove their gas taxes? And, since it's actually a very regressive tax that puts significant hardship on the poor, just leave it gone?

How about increase taxes on the rich, and subsidize only the poor who have to drive a lot for work.

That tells the rich and wasteful to cool it and encourages those of skinny means to work hard to climb in wealth stature.

 

[Peacenik]

How about we get the deficit to zero?

How about if we create a surplus and start paying the debt down?

 

[Peacenik]

Many roads are paid for and maintained at a local/county level and would not be impacted.

A temporary suspension of consumer gas taxes would have very minimal impact on road maintenance

I disagree. The money has to come from somewhere. If revenue is removed, how does that get made up?

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

Literally sixty seconds later:

Direct subsidies are a bad idea on specific items as it encourages use rather than conservation. Providing income support allows the people effected to use the money as best suits the family.

 

[Peacenik]

User fees are a perfectly reasonable form of taxation, and probably should have been raised to keep pace with inflation.

The idea seems to be to mask the impact of Biden’s fossil fuel policy changes “temporarily” (meaning until after the midterm elections?). The DNC/MSM spin machine is busy trying to blame the rise in US pump prices on Putin’s invasion of Ukraine - totally ignoring their steady rise before that.

The gas price rise before the war was directly attributable to the pandemic. Biden has done a good job of getting the pandemic under control, so that effect will lessen in time.

The pandemic caused a reduction in demand for fuel. Because of that, production was reduced. People were laid off. Refiners scaled back on shifts or shut down some facilities. Then, when demand came back, production was unable to suddenly ramp back up. This resulted in rising prices. It has nothing to do with Biden's policy. But a lot of people think so because they foolishly watch Fox News.

 

[mrjurrs]

Yeah, who cares if people are choosing between groceries and gas to drive to and from work. Suck it up for the grandkids.

So people only care when it bothers the well off? Low income people have always had to make those choices.

 

[BirdinHand]

So people only care when it bothers the well off? Low income people have always had to make those choices.

The choices are much harder for the individuals with low income.

I’m not worried about the person that might *gasp* have to forego their Starbucks.

 

[BirdinHand]

And they are worth it in reduced pollution and energy consumption. Mass transit also enables more workers to be more productive, a good thing for America.

How does mass transit have any bearing on worker productivity?

 

[BirdinHand]

It is wrong to be subsidizing frivolous people who do not budget their ample income very well. Any tweaking of the general gas taxes subsidizes everyone. Any subsidy should go to low income people only. Maybe give them limited gas price credits for sending in gas receipts if they qualify as low income.

Any help should go to the people who really need it, not everyone.

Mail in receipts to maybe get a credit?

Yeah, I’m sure Sally with 2-3 jobs and some kids has plenty of time to collect receipts and mail them in.

 

[Peacenik]

A 1% cut to budgets for a short period of time while prices are so high isn’t asking too much.

Yes, it is asking too much. We can't afford the Rich Republican tax cut as it is.

There are countless projects and spending across the entire US which could be postponed or cancelled.

It would be impossible to reach any agreement on what to cut. Just because you want to cut something which is meaningless to you, that same spending is very meaningful to somebody else. And government spending goes very much right into the economy. cut it and a recession can be caused.

And let’s face it - there’s plenty of padding in government contracts that can be better negotiated that could achieve the same exact end result without any impact to residents.

That is the same as cutting somebody's paycheck. Whatever the government is spending money on, that is usually paying workers to perform some beneficial function for the country. Cutting that spending is the same as cutting jobs.

 

[ttwtt78640]

The gas price rise before the war was directly attributable to the pandemic. Biden has done a good job of getting the pandemic under control, so that effect will lessen in time.

The pandemic caused a reduction in demand for fuel. Because of that, production was reduced. People were laid off. Refiners scaled back on shifts or shut down some facilities. Then, when demand came back, production was unable to suddenly ramp back up. This resulted in rising prices. It has nothing to do with Biden's policy. But a lot of people think so because they foolishly watch Fox News.

Hmm… I suppose that ending leases on public lands had no impact.

 

[Peacenik]

How does mass transit have any bearing on worker productivity?

A worker who cannot get to a job cannot work that job or be productive.

 

[Peacenik]

Mail in receipts to maybe get a credit?

Yeah, I’m sure Sally with 2-3 jobs and some kids has plenty of time to collect receipts and mail them in.

I bet she would. And unfortunately a lot of people would game the plan and get undeserved benefits. So it's hard to say if such a program could work as hoped.

 

[Peacenik]

Hmm… I suppose that ending leases on public lands had no impact.

There are thousands of leases already held which have not been drilled.

 

[ttwtt78640]

A worker who cannot get to a job cannot work that job or be productive.

OK, so you admit that public transit subsidies benefit urban employers.

 

[ttwtt78640]

There are thousands of leases already held which have not been drilled.

Yep, just as there are millions of acres that don’t have housing on them. This is not some new situation - that existed even before public lands were no longer available.

 

[Peacenik]

OK, so you admit that public transit subsidies benefit urban employers.

I did not say that. You did. And it is true. It also contributes to increasing the GDP and national economic growth.

 

[Peacenik]

Yep, just as there are millions of acres that don’t have housing on them. This is not some new situation - that existed even before public lands were no longer available.

The problem is not just the supply of crude. Part of the reason for high prices is the slow pace of scaling refining back up to pre-pandemic levels.