Should Civil Forfeiture Exist?

[Mason66]

I agree, that is why I limited my discussion to federal forfeiture, which I am-or perhaps once was-an expert on since I had more civil forfeiture trials than anyone in the 6th Circuit at one time

I would think the federal forfeiture would be entirely different. The Feds are not at the street level like the state is, which is where most of the abuse comes from.

Did you watch the video?

 

[TurtleDude]

I would think the federal forfeiture would be entirely different. The Feds are not at the street level like the state is, which is where most of the abuse comes from.

Did you watch the video?

No but I have seen dozens of videos on both sides of the issue. I have lectured at legal gatherings about federal forfeiture.

 

[Waddy]

This is not a racial thing. It is a color thing. That color is green.

So black is the new green?

 

[Mason66]

So black is the new green?

Why do racists always think if something happens it only happens to one race?

 

[concernedpuma]

It's absolutely insane. It is also blatantly unconstitutional.

Unconstitutional? How so?
Regards,
CP

 

[concernedpuma]

The law is being used to take money from people stopped for traffic offenses. A lot of the seizures are under $1000.00 which it makes it not financially viable for the owner of the cash to try to get it back.

The evil part of this is the police departments that keep part of this money which is a huge incentive to take money from people never charged with a crime.

If I had even as little as $10 taken from me unjustly, it would be worth my effort to retrieve it. The whole argument against confiscation here can be and generally does involve allowing dope dealers to retrieve the cash they earned killing people with their junk! I would offer; if a Police man/woman recovers money from an illegal drug operation, and after subtracting any money due victims, they should be allowed to keep it as a reward.
Regards,
CP

 

[Mason66]

If I had even as little as $10 taken from me unjustly, it would be worth my effort to retrieve it. The whole argument against confiscation here can be and generally does involve allowing dope dealers to retrieve the cash they earned killing people with their junk! I would offer; if a Police man/woman recovers money from an illegal drug operation, and after subtracting any money due victims, they should be allowed to keep it as a reward.
Regards,
CP

You are not really in touch with reality, are you?

Why would you spend thousands of dollars on lawyers fees to get back $500 or $1000?

That is what they plan on.

Did you watch the video?

 

[concernedpuma]

You are not really in touch with reality, are you?

Why would you spend thousands of dollars on lawyers fees to get back $500 or $1000?

That is what they plan on.

Did you watch the video?

To answer your last question first: No, I viewed no video. Just stick your head out of the window, that is the real world.
Yes, I am very much in touch with the real world. Maybe that's why I don't want to see your chosen video.
I wouldn't spend a fortune to get back $10. I would get that amount plus court cost. I walk away with ten bucks and my dignity.
That is what they count on? Who is this boogeyman, they?
Regards,
CP

 

[Obscurity]

Unconstitutional? How so?
Regards,
CP

The state is not entitled to take property for any reason and then refuse to return it. I don't give a damn about dope dealers, but when it comes to regular folks with no ties to drugs, or even folks using drugs personally and not selling them, I do not think the constitution allows the state to arbitrarily steal private property.

 

[Waddy]

Why do racists always think if something happens it only happens to one race?

You would be the expert on that.

 

[concernedpuma]

The state is not entitled to take property for any reason and then refuse to return it. I don't give a damn about dope dealers, but when it comes to regular folks with no ties to drugs, or even folks using drugs personally and not selling them, I do not think the constitution allows the state to arbitrarily steal private property.

I think you are in error. Failure to pay property taxes will ultimately result in your home being sold at auction. I have to add that is certainly true in Florida. Your state may be different. In any event, forfeiting property isn't alien to the country.
Regards,
CP

 

[Obscurity]

I think you are in error. Failure to pay property taxes will ultimately result in your home being sold at auction. I have to add that is certainly true in Florida. Your state may be different. In any event, forfeiting property isn't alien to the country.
Regards,
CP

Thats a different scenario. Moreover I do not think the state is entitled to take more than what is owed. That is downright theft.

 

[concernedpuma]

Thats a different scenario. Moreover I do not think the state is entitled to take more than what is owed. That is downright theft.

I don't really know what happens to any money over taxes owed. It may go to the property owner. I just don't know that. I am not sure failing to pay taxes and losing property is more egregious than killing junkies or ruining the lives of countless others, and then losing property from that activity. I am for fair hearings, but once guilt is determined, leave no stone unturned and take everything they have!
Regards,
CP

 

[Obscurity]

I don't really know what happens to any money over taxes owed. It may go to the property owner. I just don't know that. I am not sure failing to pay taxes and losing property is more egregious than killing junkies or ruining the lives of countless others, and then losing property from that activity. I am for fair hearings, but once guilt is determined, leave no stone unturned and take everything they have!
Regards,
CP

That's an atrocious viewpoint and the reason Americans are having their property stolen by the state before hearings are conducted.

 

[DH Kirkwood]

To answer your last question first: No, I viewed no video. Just stick your head out of the window, that is the real world.
Yes, I am very much in touch with the real world. Maybe that's why I don't want to see your chosen video.
I wouldn't spend a fortune to get back $10. I would get that amount plus court cost. I walk away with ten bucks and my dignity.
That is what they count on? Who is this boogeyman, they?
Regards,
CP

I challenge you to come up with your own source that refutes the lawyer in the video.

 

[TheGoverness]

A few days ago jamesrage posted this thread about how Mississippi wants to make it easier for police officers to take cash and vehicles through civil forfeiture.

Do you think civil forfeiture should exist? Is it a violation of constitutional rights? If you support it, why?

I see it only as legalized theft by police, there is no reason why police should be able to take property without having to prove it first or charge someone of a crime.

Oh ****. I accidentally chose the wrong option. **** me.

 

[Goshin]

Post-conviction only, and then only with solid proof of assets obtained through criminal action.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Post-conviction only, and then only with solid proof of assets obtained through criminal action.

The problem is then that money is fungible - if X% of income could be shown to be the result of criminal activity then X% of total assets should be up for grabs. Of course, defining which assets were acquired during the period of criminal activity is also important.

 

[concernedpuma]

That's an atrocious viewpoint and the reason Americans are having their property stolen by the state before hearings are conducted.

Atrocious? How so? Would you take the opposing view that criminals are entitled to all ill gotten gains? If so, we will owe a ton of money to the El Chapo family.

Regards,
CP

 

[concernedpuma]

I challenge you to come up with your own source that refutes the lawyer in the video.

I cannot provide a source that refutes the person in the video. Further, upon reading of some state statutes, I too am now worried about the breadth of seizure. It is most certainly unfair to attach a persons property simply for suspicion. I support a process where the property can be proven a derivative of criminal activity. In my rush to punish the poisoners of our youth and society in general, I erred in my view regarding the process. I still favor forfeiture when it is proven that property was acquired with proceeds from criminal activity.
I appreciate your challenge and have benefitted by viewing the video. - Thank You.
Regards,
CP