Should cigarette sales be outlawed?

[joko104]

[FONT=&quot]Bill would eventually make Hawaii first state to ban cigarette sales

Hilo, Hawaii -- A Big Island lawmaker has proposed incrementally increasing the minimum age to buy cigarettes until there was, for all practical purposes, a ban on their sale in Hawaii.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]

[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]The Hawaii Tribune-Herald reports Democratic state Rep. Richard Creagan has proposed legislation that aims to make the state the first to prohibit the sale of cigarettes.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Under his bill, the minimum smoking age would increase to 30 in 2020, 40 in 2021, 50 in 2022, 60 in 2023, and 100 in 2024.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The measure wouldn't apply to e-cigarettes, cigars or chewing tobacco.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/hawaii-cigarette-sales-ban-bill-would-eventually-institute/

Do you think cigarette sales should be outlawed?[/FONT]

 

[PeteEU]

The emotional part of me says yes.. hell yes.. due to the fact family members have died of lung cancer or related diseases.

But the more rational part says no... just tax the **** out of it. Also double private premiums for anyone who smokes.

 

[Captain Adverse]

[FONT="][FONT=tahoma][SIZE=2][I]Bill would eventually make Hawaii first state to ban cigarette sales

Hilo, Hawaii --[/I] A Big Island lawmaker has proposed incrementally increasing the minimum age to buy cigarettes until there was, for all practical purposes, a ban on their sale in Hawaii.[/SIZE][/FONT][/FONT][/COLOR]
[CENTER][COLOR=#101010][FONT="]

[/FONT][/CENTER]
[FONT="][FONT=tahoma][SIZE=2]The [URL="https://www.hawaiitribune-herald.com/2019/02/03/hawaii-news/creagan-proposes-cigarette-ban/"]Hawaii Tribune-Herald reports[/URL] Democratic state Rep. Richard Creagan has proposed legislation that aims to make the state the first to prohibit the sale of cigarettes.[/SIZE][/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT=tahoma][SIZE=2]Under his bill, the minimum smoking age would increase to 30 in 2020, 40 in 2021, 50 in 2022, 60 in 2023, and 100 in 2024.[/SIZE][/FONT][/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#101010][FONT="]The measure wouldn't apply to e-cigarettes, cigars or chewing tobacco.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/hawaii-cigarette-sales-ban-bill-would-eventually-institute/

Do you think cigarette sales should be outlawed?[/FONT]

Let me preface my remarks by saying that I am not a smoker, and abhor smoking cigarettes as a nasty habit that leads to serious health problems among other detriments.

However, I would not support making cigarettes illegal. :no:

I believe in individual liberty and therefore think that people have both a right to make personal choices, and the burden of being held personally responsible for the outcomes of their choices.

IMO making something like smoking illegal creates the same problems we see occurring in every example of "personal sin" prevention where we criminalize what a person can or cannot do to themselves or with other consenting adults.

It simply creates a criminal black market increasing social costs with very little preventative merit.

Now I have no problem with "sin taxes," laws regulating no-smoking areas, or even restricting access to government-sponsored free medical treatments for self-inflicted harms absent a commitment to avoid such harms in exchange. These all still leave the basic choice up to the individual.

But I'd much prefer education and other peer pressure methodologies which serve to convince a person to make better choices for themselves, rather than enforcing legal restrictions on such personal choices.

 

[Bum]

[FONT="][FONT=tahoma][SIZE=2][I]Bill would eventually make Hawaii first state to ban cigarette sales

Hilo, Hawaii --[/I] A Big Island lawmaker has proposed incrementally increasing the minimum age to buy cigarettes until there was, for all practical purposes, a ban on their sale in Hawaii.[/SIZE][/FONT][/FONT][/COLOR]
[CENTER][COLOR=#101010][FONT="]

[/FONT][/CENTER]
[FONT="][FONT=tahoma][SIZE=2]The [URL="https://www.hawaiitribune-herald.com/2019/02/03/hawaii-news/creagan-proposes-cigarette-ban/"]Hawaii Tribune-Herald reports[/URL] Democratic state Rep. Richard Creagan has proposed legislation that aims to make the state the first to prohibit the sale of cigarettes.[/SIZE][/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT=tahoma][SIZE=2]Under his bill, the minimum smoking age would increase to 30 in 2020, 40 in 2021, 50 in 2022, 60 in 2023, and 100 in 2024.[/SIZE][/FONT][/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#101010][FONT="]The measure wouldn't apply to e-cigarettes, cigars or chewing tobacco.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/hawaii-cigarette-sales-ban-bill-would-eventually-institute/

Do you think cigarette sales should be outlawed?[/FONT]

I am not an advocate of really banning items to be used as a form of "social re-education"....I really despise people up on thier soap boxes and preaching; it just creates a black market ( prohibition, marijuana ), but, if "banning" in such a method is the only choice, I am fine with it, so long as Booze, drugs, etc, are also banned with incremental age and taxation.

But, as long as we are making outlandish propositions....I want a unicorn.

 

[Pippi Longstock]

It's a smoke screen, pardon the pun. I think all of the Nanny State BS is so the government can grab more money setting up the infrastructure it takes to implement such ideas.

Besides what's up with making smoking pot legal and banning smoking cigarettes?

 

[DaveFagan]

[FONT="][FONT=tahoma][SIZE=2][I]Bill would eventually make Hawaii first state to ban cigarette sales

Hilo, Hawaii --[/I] A Big Island lawmaker has proposed incrementally increasing the minimum age to buy cigarettes until there was, for all practical purposes, a ban on their sale in Hawaii.[/SIZE][/FONT][/FONT][/COLOR]
[CENTER][COLOR=#101010][FONT="]

[/FONT][/CENTER]
[FONT="][FONT=tahoma][SIZE=2]The [URL="https://www.hawaiitribune-herald.com/2019/02/03/hawaii-news/creagan-proposes-cigarette-ban/"]Hawaii Tribune-Herald reports[/URL] Democratic state Rep. Richard Creagan has proposed legislation that aims to make the state the first to prohibit the sale of cigarettes.[/SIZE][/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT=tahoma][SIZE=2]Under his bill, the minimum smoking age would increase to 30 in 2020, 40 in 2021, 50 in 2022, 60 in 2023, and 100 in 2024.[/SIZE][/FONT][/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#101010][FONT="]The measure wouldn't apply to e-cigarettes, cigars or chewing tobacco.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/hawaii-cigarette-sales-ban-bill-would-eventually-institute/

Do you think cigarette sales should be outlawed?[/FONT]

No to the total illegality. The manufacturers should not be allowed to doctor the tobacco by treating it with chemicals to make it burn continuously and not quickly burn out and they also specifically adjust the nicotine levels to maintain a constant "hit" level. I don't know what other additives might be included in contemporary cigarettes.

/

 

[OrphanSlug]

Voted other but am trending towards no.

The issue at hand is the measurable impact cigarettes have on healthcare costs, and that is a distributed platform of dealing with costs that take this "personal choice" and applying the consequences to others. That blurs the lines on a personal choice ending with a personal consequence. So dealing with costs changes the discussion, with healthcare costs it is not voluntary participation anymore.

 

[bongsaway]

The emotional part of me says yes.. hell yes.. due to the fact family members have died of lung cancer or related diseases.

But the more rational part says no... just tax the **** out of it. Also double private premiums for anyone who smokes.

And for people who are obese and those who drink alcohol too. Tax the crap out of them. It always strikes me funny how republicans want to pass laws to outlaw things they don't like but no problem with things they do like. Alcohol and guns kill many people each year, but it's our right to do so.

 

[Praxas]

[FONT="][FONT=tahoma][SIZE=2][I]Bill would eventually make Hawaii first state to ban cigarette sales

Hilo, Hawaii --[/I] A Big Island lawmaker has proposed incrementally increasing the minimum age to buy cigarettes until there was, for all practical purposes, a ban on their sale in Hawaii.[/SIZE][/FONT][/FONT][/COLOR]
[CENTER][COLOR=#101010][FONT="]

[/FONT][/CENTER]
[FONT="][FONT=tahoma][SIZE=2]The [URL="https://www.hawaiitribune-herald.com/2019/02/03/hawaii-news/creagan-proposes-cigarette-ban/"]Hawaii Tribune-Herald reports[/URL] Democratic state Rep. Richard Creagan has proposed legislation that aims to make the state the first to prohibit the sale of cigarettes.[/SIZE][/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT=tahoma][SIZE=2]Under his bill, the minimum smoking age would increase to 30 in 2020, 40 in 2021, 50 in 2022, 60 in 2023, and 100 in 2024.[/SIZE][/FONT][/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#101010][FONT="]The measure wouldn't apply to e-cigarettes, cigars or chewing tobacco.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/hawaii-cigarette-sales-ban-bill-would-eventually-institute/

Do you think cigarette sales should be outlawed?[/FONT]

No they shouldn’t be banned and I don’t think they should be unreasonably taxed. This is coming from someone that hates smoking and was forced to endure second hand smoke from birth until I left at 17. I abhor smoking but education and peer pressure against smoking is the way to go in my opinion to combat smoking.

 

[WCH]

Vaping also?

 

[Kal'Stang]

[FONT="][FONT=tahoma][SIZE=2][I]Bill would eventually make Hawaii first state to ban cigarette sales

Hilo, Hawaii --[/I] A Big Island lawmaker has proposed incrementally increasing the minimum age to buy cigarettes until there was, for all practical purposes, a ban on their sale in Hawaii.[/SIZE][/FONT][/FONT][/COLOR]
[CENTER][COLOR=#101010][FONT="]

[/FONT][/CENTER]
[FONT="][FONT=tahoma][SIZE=2]The [URL="https://www.hawaiitribune-herald.com/2019/02/03/hawaii-news/creagan-proposes-cigarette-ban/"]Hawaii Tribune-Herald reports[/URL] Democratic state Rep. Richard Creagan has proposed legislation that aims to make the state the first to prohibit the sale of cigarettes.[/SIZE][/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT=tahoma][SIZE=2]Under his bill, the minimum smoking age would increase to 30 in 2020, 40 in 2021, 50 in 2022, 60 in 2023, and 100 in 2024.[/SIZE][/FONT][/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#101010][FONT="]The measure wouldn't apply to e-cigarettes, cigars or chewing tobacco.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/hawaii-cigarette-sales-ban-bill-would-eventually-institute/

Do you think cigarette sales should be outlawed?[/FONT]

Because it has worked so well with marijuana huh?

No. Its a personal choice.

 

[joko104]

Voted other but am trending towards no.

The issue at hand is the measurable impact cigarettes have on healthcare costs, and that is a distributed platform of dealing with costs that take this "personal choice" and applying the consequences to others. That blurs the lines on a personal choice ending with a personal consequence. So dealing with costs changes the discussion, with healthcare costs it is not voluntary participation anymore.

Are the total costs higher? If cigarette smokers die years early, the means not only other old age healthcare costs, but also no social security payments or other old age costs. Collectively, due to dying younger cigarette smokers may cost less than people who live much longer.

 

[joko104]

By my experience, the most rabid anti-smokers are ex-smokers. If they decided they shouldn't smoke, they sure as hell don't want anyone else smoking.

 

[Fledermaus]

No to the total illegality. The manufacturers should not be allowed to doctor the tobacco by treating it with chemicals to make it burn continuously and not quickly burn out and they also specifically adjust the nicotine levels to maintain a constant "hit" level. I don't know what other additives might be included in contemporary cigarettes.

/

They don't burn continuously as a safety measure.

 

[Helix]

By my experience, the most rabid anti-smokers are ex-smokers.

yeah, that is often the case. i promised myself when i quit that i wouldn't turn into that.

as for making cigarettes illegal, my opinion is that it would just result in a black market. as i say in most smoking threads, the best way to get people to stop smoking is to give them the Allen Carr book. that one freed me from the habit in 2008.

 

[pilot16]

Voted other but am trending towards no.

The issue at hand is the measurable impact cigarettes have on healthcare costs, and that is a distributed platform of dealing with costs that take this "personal choice" and applying the consequences to others. That blurs the lines on a personal choice ending with a personal consequence. So dealing with costs changes the discussion, with healthcare costs it is not voluntary participation anymore.

Okay but there are many things which harm the "public good." Obesity is by far the most dangerous issue we face. Shall we tax fast food? Ban donuts? Ration quantities? I always shudder when I hear these experts say "we must protect the public health." By that measure alcohol and drugs should be up there. It will just lead to prohibition and rampant black market where the poorest will be subject to the law coming after them. Look at that guy in NYC where the police killed him for selling a cigarette outside a convenient store.

 

[Lutherf]

[FONT="][FONT=tahoma][SIZE=2][I]Bill would eventually make Hawaii first state to ban cigarette sales

Hilo, Hawaii --[/I] A Big Island lawmaker has proposed incrementally increasing the minimum age to buy cigarettes until there was, for all practical purposes, a ban on their sale in Hawaii.[/SIZE][/FONT][/FONT][/COLOR]
[CENTER][COLOR=#101010][FONT="]

[/FONT][/CENTER]
[FONT="][FONT=tahoma][SIZE=2]The [URL="https://www.hawaiitribune-herald.com/2019/02/03/hawaii-news/creagan-proposes-cigarette-ban/"]Hawaii Tribune-Herald reports[/URL] Democratic state Rep. Richard Creagan has proposed legislation that aims to make the state the first to prohibit the sale of cigarettes.[/SIZE][/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT=tahoma][SIZE=2]Under his bill, the minimum smoking age would increase to 30 in 2020, 40 in 2021, 50 in 2022, 60 in 2023, and 100 in 2024.[/SIZE][/FONT][/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#101010][FONT="]The measure wouldn't apply to e-cigarettes, cigars or chewing tobacco.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/hawaii-cigarette-sales-ban-bill-would-eventually-institute/

Do you think cigarette sales should be outlawed?[/FONT]

It worked for drugs like cocaine and heroin so what makes you think it won't work for cigarettes? Banning is always the best way to stop people from doing things you don't like.

 

[pilot16]

Are the total costs higher? If cigarette smokers die years early, the means not only other old age healthcare costs, but also no social security payments or other old age costs. Collectively, due to dying younger cigarette smokers may cost less than people who live much longer.

Yet Europeans who have for the most part, single payer systems, smoke like chimneys. They dont seem to be worried about healthcare costs. We still pay way more.

 

[OrphanSlug]

Are the total costs higher? If cigarette smokers die years early, the means not only other old age healthcare costs, but also no social security payments or other old age costs. Collectively, due to dying younger cigarette smokers may cost less than people who live much longer.

I guess that depends on who you listen to, like the AMA, but it would be an incredible argument for you to make that smokers cost less to healthcare.

 

[Mycroft]

[FONT="][FONT=tahoma][SIZE=2][I]Bill would eventually make Hawaii first state to ban cigarette sales

Hilo, Hawaii --[/I] A Big Island lawmaker has proposed incrementally increasing the minimum age to buy cigarettes until there was, for all practical purposes, a ban on their sale in Hawaii.[/SIZE][/FONT][/FONT][/COLOR]
[CENTER][COLOR=#101010][FONT="]

[/FONT][/CENTER]
[FONT="][FONT=tahoma][SIZE=2]The [URL="https://www.hawaiitribune-herald.com/2019/02/03/hawaii-news/creagan-proposes-cigarette-ban/"]Hawaii Tribune-Herald reports[/URL] Democratic state Rep. Richard Creagan has proposed legislation that aims to make the state the first to prohibit the sale of cigarettes.[/SIZE][/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT=tahoma][SIZE=2]Under his bill, the minimum smoking age would increase to 30 in 2020, 40 in 2021, 50 in 2022, 60 in 2023, and 100 in 2024.[/SIZE][/FONT][/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#101010][FONT="]The measure wouldn't apply to e-cigarettes, cigars or chewing tobacco.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/hawaii-cigarette-sales-ban-bill-would-eventually-institute/

Do you think cigarette sales should be outlawed?[/FONT]

If this bill passes, you'll be seeing more of this, I guess.



But hey...that's got to be better than seeing this:

 

[DaveFagan]

They don't burn continuously as a safety measure.

Do your homework.

..-. ..-
\/

 

[Fledermaus]

Do your homework.

..-. ..-
\/

You really didn't know that?

 

[DaveFagan]

You really didn't know that?

I do know that. Why do you thinik that when you set your cigarette down on the ashtray and then pick it up to take another drag, it is still lit. It's treated to continue burning and I think it is treated with salt peter to do that, but I am not certain of the current chemical. Set a reefer joint down in an ashtray and you will ber required to re-light it when you want another drag. Good business for the cigarette companies because once lit they automatically burn continuously and sells more butts.

..-. ..-
\/

 

[WillyPete]

This proposal doesn't even claim to approach the actual problem (nicotine addiction) by leaving chewing tobacco and vapes legal.

This come across as a "keep our breaches clean" sort of law, rather than a public health move. If that's the issue, then patrol the beaches and give out massive fines. Much easier in the long run.

In the past few decades, we've made major advances against tobacco use without criminalizing anything or putting anyone in jail.

This policy would reverse much of that, by creating incentive for a black market for cigarettes.

All we need to do is what we've already been doing (enforced age restriction, sin taxes, education campaigns, advertising limitations) and it will continue to improve.

Also, I'm against the radio ads that have been going out for vapes like Juul. They are certainly a "healthier" way to be a nicotine addict, but I do not believe that justifies the advertising limitations not applying to them.

 

[bongsaway]

It's a smoke screen, pardon the pun. I think all of the Nanny State BS is so the government can grab more money setting up the infrastructure it takes to implement such ideas.

Besides what's up with making smoking pot legal and banning smoking cigarettes?

Florida voted for medical marijuana a few years back. The republican controlled state delayed putting it into effect as long as they could. When they finally settled on how they want to implement the law, they decided you can't smoke bud because smoking is bad for you. Cigarettes, no problem smoke until your lungs fall out. Hypocrites.