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Should churches be tax-exempt?

Should churches be tax-exempt?


  • Total voters
    80
Property taxes for sure!!

Exemptions filling certain criteria of course

Why should the local tax payers pick up there slack?
 
The catholic church making billions upon billions and owning prime real estate all over the world including a palace in the middle of Rome is "non-profit" and tax exempt, but when I simply try to provide food for my family I'm "for-profit" and must be taxed. The catholic church, among others, is a for-profit corporation and should be taxed as any other business.





So all Christian organizations automatically get tax-exempt status by simply being associated with a religion that meets the threshold for charity work, but churches of other smaller religions are shut out? How is that possibly a rational position?

If you really want to run with that idea, make it by church, not by religion. A church from a small religion that does a lot for the community should have a better chance of getting tax-exempt status over a church that does nothing for the community but is part of a big religion.

Well said!!

No way should there be blanket coverage, the loopholes are being exploited, enough so that it deserves serious discussion.
 
How dare people have options!

People are welcome to have opinions, they just have to be intelligent, rational and based on evidence, not wishful thinking.
 
People are welcome to have opinions, they just have to be intelligent, rational and based on evidence, not wishful thinking.

If people had to be intelligent and rational, most of DP's posters would be in jail
 
churches operating a for profit business are taxed on those proceeds.

Profit or no profit let the Holy Rollerz cough up income, property and all other tax like the rest of us.

And charitable outlay may be deductible as it is for the rest of us.
 
I voted no... primarily because I very much respect the notion of there being a separation of church and state.
The Separation of Church and State doctrine is mean only to stipulate
that there is to be no state-sponsored religion, not that religious institutions
should enjoy special privileges such as tax exemption.
 
Churches are a business, and thus they should be taxed as one.

My local church runs a day care at break even, runs a pre-school, and does a lot of other volunteer charities like taking care of yards for senior members that fall behind for whatever reason, provide meeting places for youth organizations, food drives, and have stepped in to help with flood and fire situations etc etc.

They do a lot more than just proselytize. My grandfather was part of the financial committee before his death and I asked him about the church, they keep a small fund but the rest goes to works in my home town. They do a lot of good. I haven't attended since I was in my teens except for weddings and funerals, but I'm guessing my experience differs from a lot of others. Before anyone asks, Lutheran denomination.

Churches that are run in this way are doing a lot for the community, taxing them would just lessen what they are able to do. I guess I just don't understand the hate based upon churches that are not doing such. The correct action would seem to be to take action against unethical churches instead of all of them.
 
My local church runs a day care at break even, runs a pre-school, and does a lot of other volunteer charities like taking care of yards for senior members that fall behind for whatever reason, provide meeting places for youth organizations, food drives, and have stepped in to help with flood and fire situations etc etc.

They do a lot more than just proselytize. My grandfather was part of the financial committee before his death and I asked him about the church, they keep a small fund but the rest goes to works in my home town. They do a lot of good. I haven't attended since I was in my teens except for weddings and funerals, but I'm guessing my experience differs from a lot of others. Before anyone asks, Lutheran denomination.

Churches that are run in this way are doing a lot for the community, taxing them would just lessen what they are able to do. I guess I just don't understand the hate based upon churches that are not doing such. The correct action would seem to be to take action against unethical churches instead of all of them.

And if the services they provide (expenses) expend all of the money they take in (revenues), then they will owe no tax (because they will have net zero income).

It won't effect most of the churches out there...... but it will effect people like....

Elevation Church - Watch Sermons, Get Involved, Give Online
 
My local church runs a day care at break even, runs a pre-school, and does a lot of other volunteer charities like taking care of yards for senior members that fall behind for whatever reason, provide meeting places for youth organizations, food drives, and have stepped in to help with flood and fire situations etc etc.

They do a lot more than just proselytize. My grandfather was part of the financial committee before his death and I asked him about the church, they keep a small fund but the rest goes to works in my home town. They do a lot of good. I haven't attended since I was in my teens except for weddings and funerals, but I'm guessing my experience differs from a lot of others. Before anyone asks, Lutheran denomination.

Churches that are run in this way are doing a lot for the community, taxing them would just lessen what they are able to do. I guess I just don't understand the hate based upon churches that are not doing such. The correct action would seem to be to take action against unethical churches instead of all of them.

What's getting confused here is that churches that operate as charities and churches that operate as businesses are getting lumped into one category, which isn't really fair. As it stands, subsidies go specifically to those parts of a church that operate as charities, and none that practice the proselytism/actual faith part. But regardless of how the church operates, it's treated as tax-exempt, period. While researching this yesterday I saw a long list of all the individual taxes a church is exempt from, and it's just jaw dropping. That there aren't churches operating as money making ventures is just naive in the extreme.

And guess who agrees with me: The Pope.
On the eve of his visit to the United States, Pope Francis blasted religious institutions who are exploiting tax loopholes to make money instead of helping the needy.

In an interview with a Portuguese Catholic broadcaster, the Pope discussed the need for Christians to fight the temptation of the ‘God of money’, into which many religious institutions often fall. He then called out those institutions that have opted to enter into the hospitality industry while exploiting a legal loophole to keep from paying taxes on their business enterprise operating under the guise of doing “God’s work.”

“Some religious orders say ‘No, now that the convent is empty we are going to make a hotel and we can have guests, and support ourselves that way, or make money.’ Well, if that is what you want to do, then pay taxes! A religious school is tax-exempt because it is religious, but if it is functioning as a hotel, then it should pay taxes just like its neighbor. Otherwise it is not fair business.”

Pope Francis Calls for Ending Tax-Exempt Status of Churches That Don't Help the Needy
 
Pick a choice and post if you care to explain

I picked other because I simply am not educated on the subject enough.
The church in this regard should play by the same rules as other orgs. If they can be a non profit and be tax exempt, thats fine by me but being a religious org or church shouldnt play a role in that.
 
What's getting confused here is that churches that operate as charities and churches that operate as businesses are getting lumped into one category, which isn't really fair. As it stands, subsidies go specifically to those parts of a church that operate as charities, and none that practice the proselytism/actual faith part. But regardless of how the church operates, it's treated as tax-exempt, period. While researching this yesterday I saw a long list of all the individual taxes a church is exempt from, and it's just jaw dropping. That there aren't churches operating as money making ventures is just naive in the extreme.

And guess who agrees with me: The Pope.


Pope Francis Calls for Ending Tax-Exempt Status of Churches That Don't Help the Needy

Being very real, I don't think it will matter to some what churches do and how they are run, they dislike what they preach and what they say so they want them taxed as a penalty. There are some posts in this thread that bear this out.

Looking at it more ethically, how do you assign a government agency to investigate the churches that are working as a charity and those that are not? Either way, government is going to look like the bad guy, and its going to cost votes. Not to mention constant religious interference suits, I think that has a lot more to do with why its not looked at more closely.
 
The power to tax is the power to destroy. It should be unconstitutional for the government to tax nonprofit churches.
 
Being very real, I don't think it will matter to some what churches do and how they are run, they dislike what they preach and what they say so they want them taxed as a penalty. There are some posts in this thread that bear this out.

Looking at it more ethically, how do you assign a government agency to investigate the churches that are working as a charity and those that are not? Either way, government is going to look like the bad guy, and its going to cost votes. Not to mention constant religious interference suits, I think that has a lot more to do with why its not looked at more closely.

I'm not basing my argument on whether or not someone is pissed off at them, but whether the church is legitimately acting as a non-profit charity, or whether it's merely hiding behind a 501c(3) tax exempt status in order to cynically make money.

And how do you know if an organization's behavior is kosher or not? You investigate them. As Planned Parenthood should know because it had SUPER motivated investigation panels starting up it's rectum with a microscope, all run by ideologically anti-abortion Republicans, and they still found nothing.
 
The power to tax is the power to destroy. It should be unconstitutional for the government to tax nonprofit churches.

Non-profit churches that are legitimate charities? Sure. But let's not pretend that if an organization is a church, it's automatically doing that. Under the current tax exemption rules, a church is automatically...well...tax exempt.

I'm not interested in "the power to tax is the power to destroy" rhetoric.
 
Non-profit churches that are legitimate charities? Sure. But let's not pretend that if an organization is a church, it's automatically doing that. Under the current tax exemption rules, a church is automatically...well...tax exempt.

I'm not interested in "the power to tax is the power to destroy" rhetoric.

The power to tax is more like the power to control through financial coercion.
 
The power to tax is more like the power to control through financial coercion.

That is correct. Without that coercion, how would I be able to get your money and put it into my welfare check?
 
I'm not basing my argument on whether or not someone is pissed off at them, but whether the church is legitimately acting as a non-profit charity, or whether it's merely hiding behind a 501c(3) tax exempt status in order to cynically make money.

And how do you know if an organization's behavior is kosher or not? You investigate them. As Planned Parenthood should know because it had SUPER motivated investigation panels starting up it's rectum with a microscope, all run by ideologically anti-abortion Republicans, and they still found nothing.

Right, I am saying you have people, even people in this thread, that want taxes levied as a penalty because they don't like what they say and do.

Secondly, potential conflict of interest in government, but it has to be done.
 
That is correct. Without that coercion, how would I be able to get your money and put it into my welfare check?

That's not really what I'm speaking towards. When you tax something you get less of it. This very reality can be used to the advantage of government to control how people behave in the marketplace.
 
Didn't we have a thread on this same topic, in this same forum, less than two weeks ago?

I don't mind redundant threads, per se, but give some time in between... say, a couple months.
 
Right, I am saying you have people, even people in this thread, that want taxes levied as a penalty because they don't like what they say and do.

If someone has an emotional reaction to churches in general, that's their problem, not mine.

Secondly, potential conflict of interest in government, but it has to be done.

And as I said, someone is always going to be pissed off at someone for something. If an organization (such as a church or PP) is cooking their books in some way, an audit will uncover that.
 
That's not really what I'm speaking towards. When you tax something you get less of it. This very reality can be used to the advantage of government to control how people behave in the marketplace.

Please explain to me how I'm going to get your money if you're not being taxed first. I don't have the time to drive to wherever you are and just take it from you. I'm too busy re-watching season 5 of Game of Thrones.
 
If someone has an emotional reaction to churches in general, that's their problem, not mine.

Its everyone's problem. Amendment rights and all that.



And as I said, someone is always going to be pissed off at someone for something. If an organization (such as a church or PP) is cooking their books in some way, an audit will uncover that.

Agreed.
 
Its everyone's problem. Amendment rights and all that.

No, it's up to you to debate them. Since their argument is not my argument, I'm not going to debate it with you as if their position is my own.


Well that's certainly cool, but it really doesn't get to the heart of what we are (or aren't) agreeing on. To be more precise, Planned Parenthood isn't tax exempt because it's Planned Parenthood, it's tax exempt because it's a non-profit offering medical services for low income people. Where churches deviate from that model is that they aren't tax exempt because they're non-profit charities. It's assumed they are, accurately or not. Rather, churches are tax exempt because they're churches. That's the problem, or at least that's the problem that I take issue with.

It's the problem the frigging Pope takes issue with.
 
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