Should chronic self-abusers have access to government health care?

[SixStringHero]

No there doesn't.
Its not a question if the person will stop abusing himself, its a question if other people should be forced to pay the abuse he's already created.


Why should you be forced to pay for my mistakes?

If you were willing to cease 'abusing' yourself and were to agree to some form of rehabilitation then I don't see the problem.

We are already over taxed as it is, and this money could best be used to help people.

If self abusers would sign some kind of legal document this would prevent repeat offenders so to speak because we would know they are making an adamant decision to cease such life threatening activities.

 

[M14 Shooter]

If self abusers would sign some kind of legal document this would prevent repeat offenders so to speak because we would know they are making an adamant decision to cease such life threatening activities.

Yes...
So, I sign the agreement and get the taxpayer-provided health care.
I go back to my old habits and require more health care.
Then what?

And you still arent addressing the question:
Why are you responsible for my screw-ups?

 

[kal-el]

Your next door neighbor has lung cancer from smoking, heart disease from over-eating, HIV from IV drug use, and has literally been grafted to his couch because all he does is watch TV.

Should taxpayers pay for his health care costs?



IMHO, heath problems caused by people deliberatly abusing themselves shoud not be covered by public heath care. There's no reason I should be forced to pay for your poor choices.

It's a rare occasion, but I actaully agree with you. I don't see why I must pay for someone that deliberately runs their body into the ground; but chronic illnesses that they can't control, yes I do think we should take care of them. It's just like you see someone at the supermarket, get in line with spare ribs, turkeys, the works, etc, at least $200 in food, and they flip out an acess card, that really ticks me off. These people are living like kings with multiple necklaces around their necks, and if you notice, the vast majority aren't skinny. I wouldn't skip any meals either if the government paid the bill.

 

[Caine]

Have you people considered the old people who got hooked on cigarettes when Joe Cool Cigarette man were around and nobody was smart enough to figure out that smoking was bad for you?

And, in the case of people who smoke and eat, etc.
What about the people who eat unhealthy foods, but not over-eating, and these unhealthy foods caused them to have heart problems? The guy who loved steaks, but still stayed in shape, but now he has heart problems caused by cholesterol that was hereditary and popped up when he got too old to continue to exercise. His eating habits still caused his own bad health.

As another person in this thread has already said, this situation is FAR from black and white.

This is a ridiculous poll, im going to vote YES.

 

[Caine]

It's a rare occasion, but I actaully agree with you. I don't see why I must pay for someone that deliberately runs their body into the ground; but chronic illnesses that they can't control, yes I do think we should take care of them. It's just like you see someone at the supermarket, get in line with spare ribs, turkeys, the works, etc, at least $200 in food, and they flip out an acess card, that really ticks me off. These people are living like kings with multiple necklaces around their necks, and if you notice, the vast majority aren't skinny. I wouldn't skip any meals either if the government paid the bill.

Umm... how do we determine that it was caused by, as you put it, DELIBERATE intent?

Who 'deliberately' runs themselves in to the ground?

Mr. Joe Cool says, "I just love smoking and drinking and eating straight lard. Im not addicted to cigarettes or alcohol, but I just want to deliberately ruin my health, so others can pay for my healthcare! Hardy Har Har Har!"

 

[kal-el]

Umm... how do we determine that it was caused by, as you put it, DELIBERATE intent?

Who 'deliberately' runs themselves in to the ground?

Mr. Joe Cool says, "I just love smoking and drinking and eating straight lard. Im not addicted to cigarettes or alcohol, but I just want to deliberately ruin my health, so others can pay for my healthcare! Hardy Har Har Har!"

When I say deliberate, I mean someone that let's say knowingly has a bad liver, and continues to indulge in intoxiction everyday. And someone that smoked for 20+ years, and has trouble breathing then.

 

[Thorgasm]

Wow, I wonder how far you are willing to go with this "reckless behavior" victims don't deserve public health care. How about people who don't wear seat belts? How about people who join the military voluntarily and perform mercenary missions that really don't protect the homeland?

 

[Caine]

When I say deliberate, I mean someone that let's say knowingly has a bad liver, and continues to indulge in intoxiction everyday. And someone that smoked for 20+ years, and has trouble breathing then.

Alcohol Withdrawl
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/000764.htm

These symptoms can really keep people from quitting "own thier own" some of them are pretty severe, which for the heavy alcoholic, could mean the difference from QUITTING and Trying to quit but not being able to.
Medical Help is avaliable, but not if they can't afford it. And if they can't afford it, and they use government health care, why shouldn't government health care help them out?

 

[Conflict]

Based upon the official response to the poll it seems to be a good question. THe answers in this poll thus far have proven to hold no political bias. That's when you know you have asked a good question.

I am undecided on the issue.

I tend to think that if people know they are dying... and they are not willing to do anything to help themselves.... then perhaps they should not receive any type of financial or governmental support.

However... at the same time I am at odds with a goverment who is selective in their willingness to offer treatment to citizens who may have underlying mental health issues that have not been properly addressed.

I think as a general rule we should give the priority to those who seem capable of being resilient...those who seem to have the motive to change their ways to survive.

That doesn't mean we should neglect the issues of those who are in despair.

 

[kal-el]

Wow, I wonder how far you are willing to go with this "reckless behavior" victims don't deserve public health care.

I would hardly call them victims, maybe victims of their own behavior. They knew the consequences, yet they continue to indulge in either smoking or drinking. Why should we be obligated to pay for these sloths?

How about people who don't wear seat belts?

That's up in the air, I would probably say no, they new the consequence of not wearing a seat belt.

How about people who join the military voluntarily and perform mercenary missions that really don't protect the homeland?

Sure, of course they do indeed know the consequences of engaging in combat, but the job of a solider is to protect America from all threats, foreign and domestic, if it weren't for the soliders, we wouldn't be having this conversation. So we must take care of them. We owe them that much.

 

[Caine]

Wow, I wonder how far you are willing to go with this "reckless behavior" victims don't deserve public health care. How about people who don't wear seat belts? How about people who join the military voluntarily and perform mercenary missions that really don't protect the homeland?

I recently ETSed from the US Army.

During that time I was a Paratrooper with the 82nd at Ft. Bragg, on a training mission at Ft. Bragg, I exited the aircraft and floated on top of the parachute of a guy below me. I kicked away, tried to push myself off of the top of his canopy, but to no avail. While trying to do this I couldn't see the ground coming (it was a night jump). During one of the times I was trying to push myself off of the top of the canopy of the guy below me, I landed on the one foot that I had extended to push away with. Since this isn't the proper Parachute Landing Fall position, I fractured some toes and the ankle on that foot. I was on a medical profile for 4 months because of this.

Should I have recieved free medical care from the government?

 

[kal-el]

Alcohol Withdrawl
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/000764.htm

These symptoms can really keep people from quitting "own thier own" some of them are pretty severe, which for the heavy alcoholic, could mean the difference from QUITTING and Trying to quit but not being able to.
Medical Help is avaliable, but not if they can't afford it. And if they can't afford it, and they use government health care, why shouldn't government health care help them out?

Why should we help people that aren't willing to help themselves? But I see what you are saying, if they are trying to quit, an honest attempt, yea I guess we should help them, if they are trying.

 

[Caine]

Why should we help people that aren't willing to help themselves? But I see what you are saying, if they are trying to quit, an honest attempt, yea I guess we should help them, if they are trying.

Now, does the government have the resources or manpower to spy on Americans to determine whether or not they are making an honest attempt?

Do doctors have the time to act as the government agents in determining whether or not someone is making an honest attempt?

Wouldn't this sort of program create unnecessary spending?

 

[vergiss]

1. Should someone who accidentally drives his car into a tree have access to government health care?

2. Should a teenage girl who slit her wrists open have access to government health care?

3. Should a baby with disabilities which the parents refused to abort have access to government health care?

etc.

:roll:

 

[MrFungus420]

Skydiving...

Mountain climbing...

Driving a car...

Mountain biking...

Skateboarding...

Playing contact sports...

All dangerous, voluntary activities, so, according to your premise, they shouldn't have access to the public health care system either, right?

If people pay taxes, then they should get the full benefit of the money that the government has taken from them.

 

[Caine]

Skydiving...

Mountain climbing...

Driving a car...

Mountain biking...

Skateboarding...

Playing contact sports...

All dangerous, voluntary activities, so, according to your premise, they shouldn't have access to the public health care system either, right?

If people pay taxes, then they should get the full benefit of the money that the government has taken from them.

Yep Yep Yep Yep!!!!

'Nuff Said! :2wave:

 

[Thorgasm]

I recently ETSed from the US Army.

During that time I was a Paratrooper with the 82nd at Ft. Bragg, on a training mission at Ft. Bragg, I exited the aircraft and floated on top of the parachute of a guy below me. I kicked away, tried to push myself off of the top of his canopy, but to no avail. While trying to do this I couldn't see the ground coming (it was a night jump). During one of the times I was trying to push myself off of the top of the canopy of the guy below me, I landed on the one foot that I had extended to push away with. Since this isn't the proper Parachute Landing Fall position, I fractured some toes and the ankle on that foot. I was on a medical profile for 4 months because of this.

Should I have recieved free medical care from the government?

I forgot to mention that I answered yes to the poll. Yes you should have received free medical care. I just wonder where people would draw the line.

 

[kal-el]

Now, does the government have the resources or manpower to spy on Americans to determine whether or not they are making an honest attempt?

I think you know as much as I do that they have the resources and manpower. Why are you giving me a trick question? To force me to answer on this big brother business?

Do doctors have the time to act as the government agents in determining whether or not someone is making an honest attempt?

Nope, I see what you are getting at. It's either all or nothing, right. We either help everybody or nobody.

Wouldn't this sort of program create unnecessary spending?

Of course it would.

 

[kal-el]

Caine did George Bush really spew this? Haha

"I don't know that atheists should be considered citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God." -George H.W. Bush

 

[Caine]

Caine did George Bush really spew this? Haha

Its on a website of quotes from the "American Taliban" that I dug up.

I haven't thought of going through everything to see if its real, but there are many on there that I DO know are real.

So I don't see why they would make up some and not others.

There is one on the website where it is talking about President Bush "Dubya" where he said "I don't think that witchcraft is a religion. I wish the military would rethink this decision."
I looked it up, I guess the military okayed troops practicing the religion of Wicca, and Dubya had to go and show his Christian intolerance of other religions.

There is a long list of them here....
http://www.reandev.com/taliban/

 

[Caine]

Even though this is off topic, this should be intresting to you Kal-el

http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/news/file004.html

 

[The Real McCoy]

Skydiving...

Mountain climbing...

Driving a car...

Mountain biking...

Skateboarding...

Playing contact sports...

All dangerous, voluntary activities, so, according to your premise, they shouldn't have access to the public health care system either, right?

If people pay taxes, then they should get the full benefit of the money that the government has taken from them.

You're comparing recreational activites with unhealthy, bad habits.. 2 very different types of behavior.

With the possible exception of driving a car, anyone injured while engaged in one of those sports/activites should be required to foot a portion of the medical bills.

 

[Thorgasm]

This one kills me!

"Evolution is a bankrupt speculative philosophy, not a scientific fact. Only a spiritually bankrupt society could ever believe it...Only atheists could accept this Satanic theory."- Jimmy Swaggert

Someone tell him atheists don't believe in Satan. :rofl

 

[MrFungus420]

You're comparing recreational activites with unhealthy, bad habits.. 2 very different types of behavior.

How? I would say jumping out of a perfectly good airplane, climbing up a cliff-face, riding a bicycle down a mountainside, or balancing on a little board with 4 wheels should all be considered "unhealthy, bad habits"

With the possible exception of driving a car, anyone injured while engaged in one of those sports/activites should be required to foot a portion of the medical bills.

Why only a portion? They knowingly and voluntarily engaged in risky behaviour. Why should we have to pay for that sort of stupidity.

 

[alphieb]

How does that address the question?
Because he HAS paid for others does not mean he SHOULD pay for others (or that others should pay for him).

That is the whole point of taxing.