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Should businesses be forced to serve customers?

csbrown28

csbrown28

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Most of you are aware of the case about the Christian shop owners that didn't want to server the gay couple on religious grounds, but for those that support the idea that people shouldn't be allowed to discriminate based on gender preference, is there any justification in your mind for turning away a paying customer?

What if the shop owners were Jewish cake makers and they were asked to bake a cake celebrating the anniversary of the holocaust? I mean certainly, while a vile thing to do, is still protected under law. Should the shop owners, in this case, be forced to bake the cake?

The reason I ask the question isn't meant to support what I believe, but to provoke thought.

Honestly I'm most interested in those that think the answer to the religious example is yes, but of course everyone is welcome to answer.
 
that chocolate icing on the cake would be made of X-Lax

but how difficult is it to come up with a reason not to serve a customer other than because of their age, gender, marital status, sexual orientation, race, religion, or disability

in your example, sorry mr stormfront but we are back ordered and cannot have your cake available by thus and so date that you need it


the prospective customer is in no position to document the actual reason his request is denied, so he has to get back in his mom's car and return to the basement empty handed
 
The clear and unsubtle difference between your example and the wedding cake example is that one involves discrimination, the other one doesn't. It is not discrimination if the shop owners offer their assortment of cakes to all customers regardless of race, gender, sexual orientation, etc. If the shop doesn't offer a "Holocaust celebration cake" then that's that, end of story. There is nothing in the law that compels the shop to offer a particular product that it doesn't sell, or want to sell, to begin with. But the products that it does offer should be available to all unless the customer is being violent or disruptive.
 
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csbrown28 said:
Most of you are aware of the case about the Christian shop owners that didn't want to server the gay couple on religious grounds, but for those that support the idea that people shouldn't be allowed to discriminate based on gender preference, is there any justification in your mind for turning away a paying customer?

What if the shop owners were Jewish cake makers and they were asked to bake a cake celebrating the anniversary of the holocaust? I mean certainly, while a vile thing to do, is still protected under law. Should the shop owners, in this case, be forced to bake the cake?

The reason I ask the question isn't meant to support what I believe, but to provoke thought.

Honestly I'm most interested in those that think the answer to the religious example is yes, but of course everyone is welcome to answer.
Click to expand...

Well, honestly I can't imagine anyone that would be celebrating the Holocaust would want a Jew to bake a cake for them. Remember - they felt that Jews were beneath them.

But for the question as a whole, no you should not be able to discriminate, for any reason. If you open your doors to the public, you open your doors to the public, no matter who they are. The only reason you could refuse service would be if they were being disruptive or causing problems. But race? Ethnicity? Sexual orientation? No, shouldn't be allowed to discriminate at all.
 
StillBallin75 said:
The clear and unsubtle difference between your example and the wedding cake example is that one involves discrimination, the other one doesn't. It is not discrimination if the shop owners offer their assortment of cakes to all customers regardless of race, gender, sexual orientation, etc. If the shop doesn't offer a "Holocaust celebration cake" then that's that, end of story. There is nothing in the law that compels the shop to offer a particular product that it doesn't sell, or want to sell, to begin with. But the products that it does offer should be available to all unless the customer is being violent or disruptive.
Click to expand...

So you agree that a bakery should not be forced to make a wedding cake that symbolizes a so-called same-sex-marriage? Or are you just being hypocritical?
 
csbrown28 said:
Most of you are aware of the case about the Christian shop owners that didn't want to server the gay couple on religious grounds, but for those that support the idea that people shouldn't be allowed to discriminate based on gender preference, is there any justification in your mind for turning away a paying customer?

What if the shop owners were Jewish cake makers and they were asked to bake a cake celebrating the anniversary of the holocaust? I mean certainly, while a vile thing to do, is still protected under law. Should the shop owners, in this case, be forced to bake the cake?

The reason I ask the question isn't meant to support what I believe, but to provoke thought.

Honestly I'm most interested in those that think the answer to the religious example is yes, but of course everyone is welcome to answer.
Click to expand...


godwin'd by the OP. nice.
 
StillBallin75 said:
The clear and unsubtle difference between your example and the wedding cake example is that one involves discrimination, the other one doesn't. It is not discrimination if the shop owners offer their assortment of cakes to all customers regardless of race, gender, sexual orientation, etc. If the shop doesn't offer a "Holocaust celebration cake" then that's that, end of story. There is nothing in the law that compels the shop to offer a particular product that it doesn't sell, or want to sell, to begin with. But the products that it does offer should be available to all unless the customer is being violent or disruptive.
Click to expand...




a coherent, cogent, well thought out post. unfortunately lacking in emotion and vitriol; your point won't be observed.
 
To answer the OP: obviously businesses shouldn't be forced to produce products which they do not want to produce. This is fundamentally different from not wanting to sell the products one does produce to a customer because of the gender, race, or other characteristics of that person.

Example: A bakery should not be forced to produce a different sort of wedding cake than the ones they produce regularly and on their own initiative. They can however not refuse to sell one of those wedding cakes to a customer because they don't approve of the customer's life style.
 
LeoVlaming said:
Example: A bakery should not be forced to produce a different sort of wedding cake than the ones they produce regularly and on their own initiative. They can however not refuse to sell one of those wedding cakes to a customer because they don't approve of the customer's life style.
Click to expand...


What about customer's skin color?
 
It is typical of the irrational and blind intolerance surrounding the debate about so-called same-sex marriage that people lose the ability to see the difference between refusing to sell a wedding cake to a gay customer (denial of service) and refusing to make a cake that shows a same-sex couple (freedom of a business to determine its own product line).
 
LeoVlaming said:
I actually said quite the opposite. Can you read?
Click to expand...

what am I supposed to read?
you said exactly that?


SF7OwkE.png
 
SlevinKelevra said:
what am I supposed to read?
you said exactly that?


SF7OwkE.png
Click to expand...

I guess English is too difficult for you. What about the sentence "they can however not refuse to sell ..." don't you understand? Maybe the word not has a different meaning for you than the one I attribute to it.
 
LeoVlaming said:
I guess English is too difficult for you. What about the sentence "they can however not refuse to sell ..." don't you understand? Maybe the word not has a different meaning for you than the one I attribute to it.
Click to expand...

LMAO @ you pretending your typo changes the meaning/content of your post.

Why would you post that message --- at all--- if that's what you meant?
 
SlevinKelevra said:
LMAO @ you pretending your typo changes the meaning/content of your post.

Why would you post that message --- at all--- if that's what you meant?
Click to expand...

What "typo"? I can't help it if you completely misread what I wrote.
 
LeoVlaming said:
What "typo"? I can't help it if you completely misread what I wrote.
Click to expand...


alright, time to clear the air

yes, or no


should a business be allowed to refuse service to someone based on their sexual orientation?

should a business be allowed to refuse service to someone based on their skin color?

should a business be allowed to refuse service to someone based on their gender?

should a business be allowed to refuse service to someone based on their religion?
 
SlevinKelevra said:
alright, time to clear the air

yes, or no


should a business be allowed to refuse service to someone based on their sexual orientation?

should a business be allowed to refuse service to someone based on their skin color?

should a business be allowed to refuse service to someone based on their gender?

should a business be allowed to refuse service to someone based on their religion?
Click to expand...

I already very clearly wrote in this thread that a business should not be allowed to refuse the regular service it provides to customers based on race, gender, sexual orientation, political beliefs, religion, what have you.

Just as I clearly wrote that businesses should not be forced to provide a specific new product just because a customer wants that product.
 
LeoVlaming said:
I already very clearly wrote in this thread that a business should not be allowed to refuse the regular service it provides to customers based on race, gender, sexual orientation, political beliefs, religion, what have you.

Just as I clearly wrote that businesses should not be forced to provide a specific new product just because a customer wants that product.
Click to expand...




and where did you write that?
 
LeoVlaming said:
To answer the OP: obviously businesses shouldn't be forced to produce products which they do not want to produce. This is fundamentally different from not wanting to sell the products one does produce to a customer because of the gender, race, or other characteristics of that person.

Example: A bakery should not be forced to produce a different sort of wedding cake than the ones they produce regularly and on their own initiative. They can however not refuse to sell one of those wedding cakes to a customer because they don't approve of the customer's life style.
Click to expand...



so does your "example" extend to 'customer's ethnic predilections' ?
 
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