Should Bush take over New Orleans (1 Viewer)

[Stinger]

The authorities and health care officials have stated New Orleans is not safe and is not habitable. There is no running water in most places and where it is running it is not safe, not even to touch. There are no hospitals, there is no 911, there is no food, no gas, no electricity no police protection there is no fire department.

Nagin is urging people to return in spite of what FEMA and all the authorities are telling him. He declared the admiral must have named himself the Royal Federal Governor.

So I'd like to here from all the people who blame Bush for not taking over before and just after the Katrina hit. Should he remove Nagin from power under the Insurrection Act and place a Federal official in charge of the whole city? What if Blanco objects and orders the State Troopers to hold them off? What if the local Sheriff refuses? What if Nagin refuses to honor thier authority?

 

[ALiberalModerate]

The authorities and health care officials have stated New Orleans is not safe and is not habitable. There is no running water in most places and where it is running it is not safe, not even to touch. There are no hospitals, there is no 911, there is no food, no gas, no electricity no police protection there is no fire department.

Nagin is urging people to return in spite of what FEMA and all the authorities are telling him. He declared the admiral must have named himself the Royal Federal Governor.

So I'd like to here from all the people who blame Bush for not taking over before and just after the Katrina hit. Should he remove Nagin from power under the Insurrection Act and place a Federal official in charge of the whole city? What if Blanco objects and orders the State Troopers to hold them off? What if the local Sheriff refuses? What if Nagin refuses to honor thier authority?

What is the source to all of this?

 

[Stinger]

What is the source to all of this?

Just about any news source you can turn to. Get back to me when you are up to speed. FWIW the video of Nagin about the federal govenor was played repeatedly on FOX yesterday and last night.

 

[Old and wise]

The authorities and health care officials have stated New Orleans is not safe and is not habitable. There is no running water in most places and where it is running it is not safe, not even to touch. There are no hospitals, there is no 911, there is no food, no gas, no electricity no police protection there is no fire department.

Nagin is urging people to return in spite of what FEMA and all the authorities are telling him. He declared the admiral must have named himself the Royal Federal Governor.

So I'd like to here from all the people who blame Bush for not taking over before and just after the Katrina hit. Should he remove Nagin from power under the Insurrection Act and place a Federal official in charge of the whole city? What if Blanco objects and orders the State Troopers to hold them off? What if the local Sheriff refuses? What if Nagin refuses to honor thier authority?

No, Bush should not take over New Orleans. He screws up everything he gets involved in and he had his chance to do something right before the hurricane hit. Keep him out of it (and lard ass Cheney also).

 

[Stinger]

No, Bush should not take over New Orleans. He screws up everything he gets involved in and he had his chance to do something right before the hurricane hit. Keep him out of it (and lard ass Cheney also).

So if he "screws up everything he gets into" then surely you are glad he didn't use "his chance to do something right before the hurricane hit", yes?

And what exactly was it he was suppose to do but didn't?

 

[cnredd]

So if he "screws up everything he gets into" then surely you are glad he didn't use "his chance to do something right before the hurricane hit", yes?

And what exactly was it he was suppose to do but didn't?

I was thinking the exact same thing....

"Bush shouldn't get involved"...next breath..."Bush should've gotten involved...:roll:

Just look at the "lard-ass" comment and we see the true intentions...:shrug:

 

[mixedmedia]

I have a novel idea! Let's let good sense dictate when folks should be allowed to return to New Orleans. If Mayor Nagin is acting in a foolhardy manner then obviously someone needs to step in for the sake of public safety. This whole partisan catfight over New Orleans is getting a little tiresome. And frankly its disrespectful to the folks, republicans and democrats, who have lost so much. I am not inclined to believe that anyone's politics was responsible for this disaster nor should anyone's politics decide who should fix it.

 

[Stinger]

I have a novel idea! Let's let good sense dictate when folks should be allowed to return to New Orleans. If Mayor Nagin is acting in a foolhardy manner then obviously someone needs to step in for the sake of public safety. This whole partisan catfight over New Orleans is getting a little tiresome. And frankly its disrespectful to the folks, republicans and democrats, who have lost so much. I am not inclined to believe that anyone's politics was responsible for this disaster nor should anyone's politics decide who should fix it.

So you are saying Bush, the republican President, should step in an usurp the authority of the elected Democrat government in Louisiana including but not limited to the Govenor and the Mayor of New Orleans? And if they resist he should do what?

 

[mixedmedia]

So you are saying Bush, the republican President, should step in an usurp the authority of the elected Democrat government in Louisiana including but not limited to the Govenor and the Mayor of New Orleans? And if they resist he should do what?

I believe the Bush administration and the representatives of the state of Louisiana should negotiate the ideal solution for the citizens of New Orleans and leave politics out of it. And I trust that that is what will happen. I don't see any benefit in dramatic speculation - as the folks in our news media LOVE to do. If the experts agree that New Orleans is unsafe then the governor and mayor should respect that consensus. I myself don't know anything about this situation as it is developing right now, so I cannot speak definitively on any of the details. It just seems to me that both sides, left and right, are way too eager to jump on any move that either side makes - it doesn't make for wise decision-making. It is my suspicion though, that the folks that matter, the president, the governor, the mayor, the LA reps, will be able to rise above the fray and make the right decisions for the people of Louisiana.

Of course, I could be completely wrong. It's been known to happen.

 

[mixedmedia]

I believe the Bush administration and the representatives of the state of Louisiana should negotiate the ideal solution for the citizens of New Orleans and leave politics out of it. And I trust that that is what will happen. I don't see any benefit in dramatic speculation - as the folks in our news media LOVE to do. If the experts agree that New Orleans is unsafe then the governor and mayor should respect that consensus. I myself don't know anything about this situation as it is developing right now, so I cannot speak definitively on any of the details. It just seems to me that both sides, left and right, are way too eager to jump on any move that either side makes - it doesn't make for wise decision-making. It is my suspicion though, that the folks that matter, the president, the governor, the mayor, the LA reps, will be able to rise above the fray and make the right decisions for the people of Louisiana.

Of course, I could be completely wrong. It's been known to happen.

Okay, I have educated myself a little more about this now. I will say that in my own completely unauthoritative opinion it is too soon to allow residents back into New Orleans, even though the areas being opened up are high-lying areas that did not flood. Do I think the federal government should intercede and wrest control from Mayor Nagin? I don't know. Perhaps if it came to that, but I still have faith that it will not. I have faith that everyone involved truly wants what is best for the people of New Orleans and will come to a solution and/or compromise that will be acceptable. In a perfect world I would say that everyone (together) should work quickly to restore vital services to the area as soon as possible so that people can come back safely. I understand the urgency people must feel to return to their homes. I would imagine that is at least part of what has spurred Mayor Nagin's haste - responding to his constituency.

But anyway, since there is another hurricane on its way that could possibly cause NO to backtrack some in its recovery, I guess this question is pushed back a week or so regardless.

 

[wxcrazytwo]

So, what is the point of this thread. There is a little known amendment to the constitution providing separation between the feds and the states. Bush is the last person you want taking over anything..

 

[Stinger]

So, what is the point of this thread. There is a little known amendment to the constitution providing separation between the feds and the states. Bush is the last person you want taking over anything..

The point is Democrats and leftist have critized Bush and the Federal Government for not "moving in sooner" after Katrina hit. So why are they not insisiting. or were not at this point since Nagin backed down, they take over when Nagin was letting people back in to such a dangerous evironment that all the authorities said should not be occupied yet?

I agree the law prevent Bush from taking over after Katrina unless he invoked the Insurrection Act and I can well imagine the very same people who now say he should have sent in federal troops would be the same people complaining he took over.

 

[cnredd]

The point is Democrats and leftist have critized Bush and the Federal Government for not "moving in sooner" after Katrina hit. So why are they not insisiting. or were not at this point since Nagin backed down, they take over when Nagin was letting people back in to such a dangerous evironment that all the authorities said should not be occupied yet?

I agree the law prevent Bush from taking over after Katrina unless he invoked the Insurrection Act and I can well imagine the very same people who now say he should have sent in federal troops would be the same people complaining he took over.

The crux of the biscuit...

Left - "It's Bush's fault!"
Anyone else - "What did he do?"
Left - "I don't know yet...but it'll be the wrong thing to do!"

 

[mixedmedia]

The point is Democrats and leftist have critized Bush and the Federal Government for not "moving in sooner" after Katrina hit. So why are they not insisiting. or were not at this point since Nagin backed down, they take over when Nagin was letting people back in to such a dangerous evironment that all the authorities said should not be occupied yet?

I agree the law prevent Bush from taking over after Katrina unless he invoked the Insurrection Act and I can well imagine the very same people who now say he should have sent in federal troops would be the same people complaining he took over.

Well, you know you are absolutely right. And you know, it would be absolutely the same if the political roles in this situation were reversed.

I don't know why it is so hard for both sides to admit that everyone shares in the blame for this tragedy. And why it is so hard for everyone to accept that no one wanted things to happen this way. I will hand it to President Bush for one thing - stepping up and taking the blame. Whether he truly deserved it or not, I think it shows that he at least is aware we need to get past this. I also applaud his acknowledgement of the unchecked poverty that still exists in America and in particular in the deep south. I sent the man a thank-you note. I feel he needs all the encouragement he can get.

 

[Stinger]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stinger
The point is Democrats and leftist have critized Bush and the Federal Government for not "moving in sooner" after Katrina hit. So why are they not insisiting. or were not at this point since Nagin backed down, they take over when Nagin was letting people back in to such a dangerous evironment that all the authorities said should not be occupied yet?

I agree the law prevent Bush from taking over after Katrina unless he invoked the Insurrection Act and I can well imagine the very same people who now say he should have sent in federal troops would be the same people complaining he took over.

Well, you know you are absolutely right. And you know, it would be absolutely the same if the political roles in this situation were reversed.

I certainly have no reason to believe that assertion.

I don't know why it is so hard for both sides to admit that everyone shares in the blame for this tragedy.

Because not everyone shares blame many deserve our hardy THANKS. Why is it so difficult for people to say THANKS?

And why it is so hard for everyone to accept that no one wanted things to happen this way.

Well because you have the media out there giving credence to such claims as the Guard was sent in to kill blacks, that the levies were blown up to kill blacks, that Bush held back aid because they were black and all sorts of nonsense.

I will hand it to President Bush for one thing - stepping up and taking the blame.

And what specifically do you "blame" him for?

Whether he truly deserved it or not, I think it shows that he at least is aware we need to get past this.

Personally I think it would do the country well if we got over this notion that if anyone suffers anything then there is a cord connecting them to someone else who is to "blame". The important thing is to look at what worked and what didn't and build upon those things that did and improve those that didn't.

I also applaud his acknowledgement of the unchecked poverty that still exists in America

You weren't aware of it before? You seriously don't believe he did?

and in particular in the deep south. I sent the man a thank-you note. I feel he needs all the encouragement he can get.

I would rather send him an thank-you note for his economic policies that created jobs and give people opportunity than for just acknowledging something.

 

[mixedmedia]

I certainly have no reason to believe that assertion.

Oh really? That's one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard.

Because not everyone shares blame many deserve our hardy THANKS. Why is it so difficult for people to say THANKS?

So no one at the federal level deserves any blame? Give me a break.

Well because you have the media out there giving credence to such claims as the Guard was sent in to kill blacks, that the levies were blown up to kill blacks, that Bush held back aid because they were black and all sorts of nonsense.

What media is giving credence to such claims? You mean the fantasyland paranoia media circus going on inside your head? Give me one example of an established media source giving credence to such ridiculous notions. And talking head guests on CNN or FOX don't count. I mean journalists reporting from the scene or anchoring giving credence to your claims.

And what specifically do you "blame" him for?

Well if you stopped long enough to really read my post you would see that I don't blame him. But as far as I can tell there is no governmental agency faultless in this situation.

Personally I think it would do the country well if we got over this notion that if anyone suffers anything then there is a cord connecting them to someone else who is to "blame". The important thing is to look at what worked and what didn't and build upon those things that did and improve those that didn't.

Jeesh, unbelievable. So republicans are never ones to point fingers and throw blame around. Give me a ****ing break. You're not yourself here on this very thread trying to place blame?

You weren't aware of it before? You seriously don't believe he did?

Well, he was probably aware of it, but he never mentioned it. I have always been aware of it. You know, I can tell you're trying to pick a fight with me, but you're wasting your time.

I would rather send him an thank-you note for his economic policies that created jobs and give people opportunity than for just acknowledging something.

[/QUOTE]

Whatever, buddy. Go right ahead.

 

[Stinger]

Well, you know you are absolutely right. And you know, it would be absolutely the same if the political roles in this situation were reversed.

Me>
Quote:
I certainly have no reason to believe that assertion.

You>>

Oh really? That's one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard.

Oh really, why do you find it ridiculous that I don't accept your baseless assertion as factual?

My Quote:
Because not everyone shares blame many deserve our hardy THANKS. Why is it so difficult for people to say THANKS?

You

So no one at the federal level deserves any blame? Give me a break.

Well who at what for, and then while your at it do you believe no one at the federal level deserves thanks?

What media is giving credence to such claims? You mean the fantasyland paranoia media circus going on inside your head? Give me one example of an established media source giving credence to such ridiculous notions. And talking head guests on CNN or FOX don't count. I mean journalists reporting from the scene or anchoring giving credence to your claims.

Everytime the poll about it, everytime they put Sharpton or Farrakhan on an allow them to make such statments without challenge, everytime they allow Democrats to spout such vicious baseless claims without challenge.

Well if you stopped long enough to really read my post you would see that I don't blame him. But as far as I can tell there is no governmental agency faultless in this situation.

Fault for what and be specific.

My Quote:
Personally I think it would do the country well if we got over this notion that if anyone suffers anything then there is a cord connecting them to someone else who is to "blame". The important thing is to look at what worked and what didn't and build upon those things that did and improve those that didn't.

Jeesh, unbelievable. So republicans are never ones to point fingers and throw blame around. Give me a ****ing break. You're not yourself here on this very thread trying to place blame?

So this is more about blame and payback?

Well, he was probably aware of it, but he never mentioned it. I have always been aware of it. You know, I can tell you're trying to pick a fight with me, but you're wasting your time.

So you're making the factual statement that Bush has never mentioned, never discussed poverty? Is that your position?
Quote:
I would rather send him an thank-you note for his economic policies that created jobs and give people opportunity than for just acknowledging something.

Whatever, buddy. Go right ahead.[/quote]

For some reason I just seem to believe it's more important do to constructive things rather than just attempt to gain political points by blaming

 

[kal-el]

Should he remove Nagin from power under the Insurrection Act[ /QUOTE]

No,he should do the honorable thing and resign.:smile:

 

[mixedmedia]

Stinger,
I'm not sure exactly what your beef is with me. Is it just because no one else is talking on this thread? Republicans blame, Democrats blame, everyone blames. Here I am, saying that no one is fully to blame. You are the one implying that there is only one political group to blame. Then you have the audacity to say that you think people need to get past blaming. Good grief.

You are not able to give credence to your claims that extremist notions are being given journalistic integrity in the media. So Farakhan has some explosive things to say? Well wow, big surprise there. Now Louis Farakhan is the voice of liberal America? Give me a quote from Al Sharpton saying that the Bush administration sent the National Guard to LA specifically to shoot black people. To be truthful, I have not heard or read anything from Al Sharpton since Katrina and I will believe that he has some strong and possibly controversial opinions but you will have to prove to me that he is contending conspiracies on a par with Louis Farakhan. Al Sharpton is a black man and he is old enough to remember our racist heyday here in America. Can you really blame him and others so much for seeing racist elements in this tragedy? Can you say with complete honesty that you would not have the same or similar feelings or even suspicions if the situation were reversed? I don't believe that the reaction to Katrina was slow due to racism because of my heart. My head tells me that it could have been at the very least on an unconscious level. Now by saying that I don't refer specifically to any political party or governmental entity. In fact, I would be just as likely to suspect it in the Blanco administration as in the Bush administration. I'm just saying that I have lived in the South all my life and I see racism at work. I lived in LA for a couple of years and anyone who says there is not racism there has to be blind ignorant. Racial bias still colors our relations with each other, just in a different, and less ugly way than it did before.

Getting back to the media, was Louis Farakhan actually on a major news network, or were they just reporting on what he said? There's a big difference, isn't there? And regardless, folks like Sharpton and Jackson are giving their opinons, not reporting news. And the right is given plenty of equal "blowhard time" to bandy their incendiary tripe around on our nation's airwaves. Just like they did for eight frigging years with their "opinions" on every *******ed thing that Bill Clinton ever did.

Speaking of Bill Clinton, did you send him a note to thank him for all he did for the US economy? Since it's so important to you. Probably not, eh?

 

[Stinger]

Should he remove Nagin from power under the Insurrection Act[ /QUOTE]

No,he should do the honorable thing and resign.:smile:

Nagin? How about Blanco, she has done nothing to protect the people or stop Nagin from piling them back in.

 

[kal-el]

Nagin? How about Blanco, she has done nothing to protect the people or stop Nagin from piling them back in.

Relax Dude, I didn't say Bush is totally at fault.

 

[Stinger]

Relax Dude, I didn't say Bush is totally at fault.

What is he partially at fault for, Dude? And you didn't answer my previous question, Dude.

 

[kal-el]

What is he partially at fault for, Dude? And you didn't answer my previous question, Dude.

As to your first question, sure Nagin should be held responsible, But on the other hand, Bush is the President, he can basically do anything he wants. Like I said before, if Malibu or Beverly Hills got hit, Bush would be helping them out in a hurry, not 4 days after.

 

[cnredd]

As to your first question, sure Nagin should be held responsible, But on the other hand, Bush is the President, he can basically do anything he wants. Like I said before, if Malibu or Beverly Hills got hit, Bush would be helping them out in a hurry, not 4 days after.

You got proof of that?...Or is this a baseless opinion 'cause you don't like the guy?:roll:

I think if Malibu or Beverly Hills got hit, Bush's blame would be just as irrelevant...These places don't have a Mayor Nagin, which means their emergency plans would be more efficient...If Bush asked if they needed help, I wouldn't be surprised if they said "No thanks...we got it under control ourselves...We don't want federal government interference"

 

[kal-el]

You got proof of that?...Or is this a baseless opinion 'cause you don't like the guy?:roll:

Of course not, because they weren't hit.But it is indeed factual that Bush favors the weathly; hence the tax cuts.

I think if Malibu or Beverly Hills got hit, Bush's blame would be just as irrelevant...These places don't have a Mayor Nagin, which means their emergency plans would be more efficient...If Bush asked if they needed help, I wouldn't be surprised if they said "No thanks...we got it under control ourselves...We don't want federal government interference"

I doubt they would say that if they got hit with a category 4 or higher storm.