Should atheists, agnostics and non-Christians be required to swear an oath to God?

[Peter King]

If you want to register to vote in Alabama, you must read and sign a declaration that concludes with " so help me God. "

At this time, Alabama is the only state which requires this affirmation for voter registration. Under Alabama state law, you are not allowed to black out the words because the registration would then be deemed invalid.

Although several states still have laws requiring this allegiance to God on the books, few of them now require it at this time.

Hell NO.

 

[Peter King]

Atheists don't feel bound to oaths so why bother?

Utter nonsense of course, atheists feel just as bound to oaths as they swear to as "religious people".

 

[TypicalRussian]

If you want to register to vote in Alabama, you must read and sign a declaration that concludes with " so help me God. "

At this time, Alabama is the only state which requires this affirmation for voter registration. Under Alabama state law, you are not allowed to black out the words because the registration would then be deemed invalid.

Although several states still have laws requiring this allegiance to God on the books, few of them now require it at this time.

yes you should, we need a state religion

 

[Somerville]

Is there an atheist that lives in Alabama somewhere? I never would have guessed.

There is at least one atheist living in Alabama which is why the FFRF has filed a lawsuit

FFRF challenges religious voter oath requirement in Alabama

The lead plaintiff, an atheist, Randal Cragun, has sought to register to vote in Alabama since November 2019, using a mail-in form downloaded from the secretary of state’s website. The bottom of the voter declaration section warns, “Read and sign under penalty of perjury,” and adds: “If you falsely sign this statement, you can be convicted and imprisoned for up to five years.” Voters submitting this registration form in Alabama must sign the voter declaration, beginning “I solemnly swear or affirm” and concluding with “so help me God.”

Cragun contacted the secretary of state’s office to ask about the process to register to vote without swearing an oath reading, “so help me God.” The following day, the director of elections informed him, “There is no legal mechanism to register to vote in AL without signing the oath as it is stated.” He continued, “If you cross out a portion, the board of registrars in your county will reject the application and ask you to resubmit.”

The secretary of state maintains that the registration forms are “prescribed by statute” and “that any changes would require legislative action.” FFRF’s lawsuit points out that the secretary of state has the authority to create and amend voter registration forms.

 

[devildavid]

The quick and simple answer: NO.

 

[Yasureoktoo]

Is there an atheist that lives in Alabama somewhere? I never would have guessed.

He was captured in Ill. and is being held prisoner in the basement of a southern Baptist church untill he repents.

 

[bongsaway]

If you want to register to vote in Alabama, you must read and sign a declaration that concludes with " so help me God. "

At this time, Alabama is the only state which requires this affirmation for voter registration. Under Alabama state law, you are not allowed to black out the words because the registration would then be deemed invalid.

Although several states still have laws requiring this allegiance to God on the books, few of them now require it at this time.

Tell us atheists the story of Christianity under attack again. We like that one.

 

[Dogger807]

Once again rapid territory marking christians are attempting to pee on the carpet. No matter how many times they get whacked by the Constitution, they never learn.

 

[MikePrime]

No but they as I must understand that the our country is founded on the idea of god given rights and they should at least agree to those natural rights to have a peaceful nation. You don't have to be Christian but our are ideas are certainty rooted in it. I don't think the pledge of allegiance should have god it in as it was added in 1945.

 

[Yasureoktoo]

No but they as I must understand that the our country is founded on the idea of god given rights and they should at least agree to those natural rights to have a peaceful nation. You don't have to be Christian but our are ideas are certainty rooted in it. I don't think the pledge of allegiance should have god it in as it was added in 1945.

Actually the country was founded on freedom of different types of the Christian religion, with no quarter given to Jews, hindu, etc.
If they actually knew what Islam was all about, they certainly would have bashed it in the writings, probably making it illegal in the states.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Surely ah honest atheist would be completely indifferent to swearing an oath to God, since there is no God the oath carries no actual obligation so the decision would be based purely on what benefit can be obtained in taking said oath.

 

[Somerville]

Surely an honest Christian would be outraged if they knew of an atheist who swore an oath affirming their honesty by mentioning a deity the atheist knows doesn't exist. Surely an honorable person would view the action of the atheist as a denigration of the deity.

One might see the words of the Xtian as saying they are fine with a person committing perjury as long as the person uses the name of God in an oath.

 

[southwest88]

Actually the country was founded on freedom of different types of the Christian religion, with no quarter given to Jews, hindu, etc.
If they actually knew what Islam was all about, they certainly would have bashed it in the writings, probably making it illegal in the states.

See https://debatepolitics.com/threads/non-separation-of-church-and-state.377894/page-8#post-1072731266

, entry #191. Jefferson was well aware of Islam & the issue of non-Christians in the US, which likely reinforced his preference for a secular US government.

& of course no quarter given means non-Christians would have been slain out of hand. A complete non-starter, that didn't happen, TMK. Perhaps you meant no consideration?

 

[Yasureoktoo]

See https://debatepolitics.com/threads/non-separation-of-church-and-state.377894/page-8#post-1072731266

, entry #191. Jefferson was well aware of Islam & the issue of non-Christians in the US, which likely reinforced his preference for a secular US government.

& of course no quarter given means non-Christians would have been slain out of hand. A complete non-starter, that didn't happen, TMK. Perhaps you meant no consideration?

I can accept your point of a missuse of words, but please tell me about how Jefferson knew about Islam, other than it was just another religion.

 

[southwest88]

I can accept your point of a missuse of words, but please tell me about how Jefferson knew about Islam, other than it was just another religion.

See the post I noted above - there's a book on the subject. Jefferson read widely, he bought copies of the Koran, he studied Islam religion, government, history, maybe the language itself. I don't remember if he tracked down Islamics to talk with them about their religion & culture. He likely corresponded with their foreign ministers (there was trade with several North African Islamic states, as I recall - Mostly British, but some colonial trade. & Jefferson had spent some time in France - he might have had French naval/sailing contacts who could have made introductions for him to the Islamic states.)

 

[Yasureoktoo]

See the post I noted above - there's a book on the subject. Jefferson read widely, he bought copies of the Koran, he studied Islam religion, government, history, maybe the language itself. I don't remember if he tracked down Islamics to talk with them about their religion & culture. He likely corresponded with their foreign ministers (there was trade with several North African Islamic states, as I recall - Mostly British, but some colonial trade. & Jefferson had spent some time in France - he might have had French naval/sailing contacts who could have made introductions for him to the Islamic states.)

sorry, All we know is he had a Qur'an, the first English translation, and not an accredited one.
Yes, he met with Mideast leaders, and if he discussed the religion at all, he got their version, or what they wanted to tell him.
You can't learn much about Islam by reading the Qur'an, in fact, if you don't know the proper way to read it, much of what you read is wrong.
He had no way of knowing.
He had no way of learning about Muhammed, remember him, he is not in the Qur'an, mention only 4 times, but nothing about him.
Muhammeds Biography was not translated into English untill 1955.

Remember, a Muslim is obligated to lie to the Kafir about the intents of the religion. ( Taquyyia).

And much easier to lie about Islam 200 years ago than it is now.

 

[southwest88]

sorry, All we know is he had a Qur'an, the first English translation, and not an accredited one.
Yes, he met with Mideast leaders, and if he discussed the religion at all, he got their version, or what they wanted to tell him.
You can't learn much about Islam by reading the Qur'an, in fact, if you don't know the proper way to read it, much of what you read is wrong.
He had no way of knowing.
He had no way of learning about Muhammed, remember him, he is not in the Qur'an, mention only 4 times, but nothing about him.
Muhammeds Biography was not translated into English untill 1955.

Remember, a Muslim is obligated to lie to the Kafir about the intents of the religion. ( Taquyyia).

And much easier to lie about Islam 200 years ago than it is now.

You underestimate Jefferson considerably. He was brilliant, learned languages just to read in them, & carried out a massive worldwide correspondence.

From the book I noted above:

"Summary
 "In this original and illuminating book, Denise A. Spellberg reveals a little-known but crucial dimension of the story of American religious freedom-- a drama in which Islam played a surprising role. In 1765, eleven years before composing the Declaration of Independence, Thomas Jefferson bought a Qur'an. This marked only the beginning of his lifelong interest in Islam, and he would go on to acquire numerous books on Middle Eastern languages, history, and travel, taking extensive notes on Islam as it relates to English common law. Jefferson sought to understand Islam notwithstanding his personal disdain for the faith, a sentiment prevalent among his Protestant contemporaries in England and America. But unlike most of them, by 1776 Jefferson could imagine Muslims as future citizens of his new country. Based on groundbreaking research, Spellberg compellingly recounts how a handful of the Founders, Jefferson foremost among them, drew upon Enlightenment ideas about the toleration of Muslims (then deemed the ultimate outsiders in Western society) to fashion out of what had been a purely speculative debate a practical foundation for governance in America. In this way, Muslims, who were not even known to exist in the colonies, became the imaginary outer limit for an unprecedented, uniquely American religious pluralism that would also encompass the actual despised minorities of Jews and Catholics. The rancorous public dispute concerning the inclusion of Muslims, for which principle Jefferson's political foes would vilify him to the end of his life, thus became decisive in the Founders' ultimate judgment not to establish a Protestant nation, as they might well have done." -- From publisher's web site."

(My emphasis - more @ the URL cited in the post above)

See also https://www.newsweek.com/jefferson-...unding-fathers-defense-muslims-matters-619541

"By this he meant that religious liberty and political equality would not be exclusively Christian. For Jefferson asserted in his autobiography that his original legislative intent had been "to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mahometan [Muslim], the Hindoo, and Infidel of every denomination."

"By defining Muslims as future citizens in the 18th century, in conjunction with a resident Jewish minority, Jefferson expanded his "universal" legislative scope to include every one of every faith.

"Ideas about the nation's religiously plural character were tested also in Jefferson's presidential foreign policy with the Islamic powers of North Africa. President Jefferson welcomed the first Muslim ambassador, who hailed from Tunis, to the White House in 1805. Because it was Ramadan, the president moved the state dinner from 3:30 p.m. to be "precisely at sunset," a recognition of the Tunisian ambassador's religious beliefs, if not quite America's first official celebration of Ramadan."

(My emphasis - more @ the URL)

That pretty much covers it, yes?

 

[Yasureoktoo]

There are too many things about Islam that are simply not mentioned in the reviews i just read, so i ordered the book.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Surely an honest Christian would be outraged if they knew of an atheist who swore an oath affirming their honesty by mentioning a deity the atheist knows doesn't exist. Surely an honorable person would view the action of the atheist as a denigration of the deity.

One might see the words of the Xtian as saying they are fine with a person committing perjury as long as the person uses the name of God in an oath.

Not me, couldn't care less what the atheist does, they're often an irrational lot anyway so nothing would surprise me.

 

[Somerville]

Not me, couldn't care less what the atheist does, they're often an irrational lot anyway so nothing would surprise me.

Then you believe that atheists and agnostics can't be real American citizens? Nice way to disenfranchise approximately 10% of the population, a percentage which has doubled in the past 10 years.
Personally, I find that many of those who call themselves "evangelicals" are far more irrational but that's just my opinion as I am familiar with Christians who disagree with the evangelicals and with you.

 

[Bleeding Head Ken]

Although several states still have laws requiring this allegiance to God on the books, few of them now require it at this time.

Didn't Jesus say something about swearing no oaths, as in, they are pretty much pointless? You either do what you say you are going to do or you don't; making some sort of committal statement about it doesn't change what you do in the future or the divine retribution for your actions.

 

[HonestJoe]

Didn't Jesus say something about swearing no oaths, as in, they are pretty much pointless? You either do what you say you are going to do or you don't; making some sort of committal statement about it doesn't change what you do in the future or the divine retribution for your actions.

That does kind of raise the aspect of this missed by the OP question; Should Christians be required by government to swear an oath to God for a purely secular purpose?

 

[zyzygy]

But most of all, my brothers and sisters, never take an oath, by heaven or earth or anything else. Just say a simple yes or no, so that you will not sin and be condemned. James 5:12

 

[Yasureoktoo]

Another point about Jefferson.
He had no way of knowing about Chronology.\
Muhammeds hadieths about breaking oaths, making the new one the valid one.
No way of knowing which verses in the Qur'an were valid
Meccan and Medina Qur'ans.
Nothing about Muhammeds life of rob, rape, and kill.
Questionable what parts of sharia, which changed with the sects anyways.

 

[LouC]

Nobody should EVER be forced to swear an oath.

If one is forced to make oath then it is a false oath and a lie.

Why would anyone want folks to lie?