Should America pay to fix its bridges?

[mmi]

Re: Should America pay to fix its bridges?[

it is possible to work on that infrastructure without it having to be a "stimulus", AKA deficit spending.

Sure. But it's not as cost-effective, and it's more difficult politically.

I was being sarcastic. That is what MMI believes.

Hey, do me a big favour and don't try to speak for me. I do NOT believe we'll get the money from the tooth fairy, and I do NOT support "printing more money that will lead to inflation."

>>I think we should start working on the infrastructure but do it without increased deficit spending.

Yeah, probably by cutting supplemental nutrition programs. "Let them eat asphalt."

>>The whole thread was just a backhanded way of saying we should deficit spend to fix our infrastructure. MMI was not honest about that.

The rules of decorum prevent me from responding to that … honestly. I'll simply say that yer description of my motive is entirely incorrect. And please don't call me a liar.

 

[earthworm]

All bridges should have a toll, and only those rich enough should use the bridges .. and the same with the streets and roads .. ..yes .. as it was , "few years ago'' . Private ownership of everything ..the people be damned ..

 

[earthworm]

We should force Mexico to pay for them. "Make America Great Again"

Mexico will simply buy the bridges and then charge high tolls for us to use them ..The similar has happened before.

 

[Bodi]

Re: Should America pay to fix its bridges?[

I was being sarcastic. That is what MMI believes. I think we should start working on the infrastructure but do it without increased deficit spending. The whole thread was just a backhanded way of saying we should deficit spend to fix our infrastructure. MMI was not honest about that.

But printing money leads to inflation and that is a bad idea in today's economic climate...

 

[Moderate Right]

Re: Should America pay to fix its bridges?[

But printing money leads to inflation and that is a bad idea in today's economic climate...

That's where the sarcasm comes in! I don't want to print money any more than you do.

 

[Bodi]

Re: Should America pay to fix its bridges?[

That's where the sarcasm comes in! I don't want to print money any more than you do.

You agreed with his position quite plainly... playing it off as sarcasm now doesn't work.

 

[grip]

Re: Should America pay to fix its bridges?[

I already paid for bridges and roads to be fixed. Anymore is exorbitant.

 

[Moderate Right]

Re: Should America pay to fix its bridges?[

You agreed with his position quite plainly... playing it off as sarcasm now doesn't work.

Oh jeeeeeeeeeeez. Check out all of my posts in the MMT threads. I rail against printing money all the time. Sorry you misunderstood.

 

[Bodi]

Re: Should America pay to fix its bridges?[

Oh jeeeeeeeeeeez. Check out all of my posts in the MMT threads. I rail against printing money all the time. Sorry you misunderstood.

Looks like I out-sarcasm'd you...

 

[Bodi]

Re: Should America pay to fix its bridges?[

I already paid for bridges and roads to be fixed. Anymore is exorbitant.

Exorbinant... and then who do you expect to pay for the upkeep then? We can't just print more money... that leads to inflation.

 

[grip]

Re: Should America pay to fix its bridges?[

Exorbinant... and then who do you expect to pay for the upkeep then? We can't just print more money... that leads to inflation.

Print some for me and I'll show you the opposite of inflation.

 

[Gaztopian]

Re: Should America pay to fix its bridges?[

If a country is unwilling to invest in its infrastructure, it's not the bridges that are decaying; it's the state. It's nothing short of insanity that the richest country on the face of the earth is having a hard time allocating trifles to maintain its decaying infrastructure.

 

[PirateMk1]

Re: Should America pay to fix its bridges?[

There are about 600K bridges in the US, and about ten percent are structurally deficient. We currently spend around $10-12 billion annually on bridge maintenance. To fix the ones with serious problems, we'd need to spend something like eight billion more. Should we tell Congress to find the money?

Did you know there is supposed to be a highway trust fund funded from all the taxes you pay on your automobile to keep the roads maintained the United States has one as does every state in the union and likely or local municipality. The problem is the twits in charge keep stealing it. So there is no money in the various trusts that are meant to fix such things. I am in the transportation business and this is a pet peeve of mine. If the money was used as it is supposed to be used and somewhat reasonably, we would have smooth well maintained roads and bridges with little problem. They would be some of the best in the world. Now in California, if you hop the border into Mexico the likelihood is you will find better maintained roads. But the twits keep stealing the money for other projects. Apparently bike paths and railroad tracks and other like crap is considered road funding.

 

[cabse5]

Re: Should America pay to fix its bridges?[

Elect Trump. He'll make Mexico pay for it.

At least, Trump will find ways to make it cost less.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Re: Should America pay to fix its bridges?[

Did you know there is supposed to be a highway trust fund funded from all the taxes you pay on your automobile to keep the roads maintained the United States has one as does every state in the union and likely or local municipality. The problem is the twits in charge keep stealing it. So there is no money in the various trusts that are meant to fix such things. I am in the transportation business and this is a pet peeve of mine. If the money was used as it is supposed to be used and somewhat reasonably, we would have smooth well maintained roads and bridges with little problem. They would be some of the best in the world. Now in California, if you hop the border into Mexico the likelihood is you will find better maintained roads. But the twits keep stealing the money for other projects. Apparently bike paths and railroad tracks and other like crap is considered road funding.

stealing money? how so? The Federal Highway Trust fund can only be used to fund roadway improvements. It simply doesn't have enough money, see the federal gasoline tax hasn't been raised since 1993. They've consistently raised the taxes on diesel fuel because the largest number of voters don't drive diesel vehicles, and since the majority of road users burn gas, driving up diesel taxes won't fix problems forever.

 

[Russell797]

Re: Should America pay to fix its bridges?[

At least, Trump will find ways to make it cost less.

Slave labor maybe? Non-union workers? Migrant workers from Mexico? Use less quality materials? It's not just bridges either or at just the federal level. Roads, bridges, electrical grid, sewer, water, environmental clean up and more. We don't have the money. Then we will have to build sea walls to hold back sea level rise. We don't have the money. Storm damage increasingly an expensive problem. We don't have the money.

 

[mmi]

Re: Should America pay to fix its bridges?[

Did you know there is supposed to be a highway trust fund

Yes, and it actually exists, not just "supposedly."

>>The problem is the twits in charge keep stealing it.

No, the problem is that we're having difficulty generating revenues for it. Fuel efficiency has increased substantially over the years, and people are driving less.

About twenty percent of $40 billion expended through the fund annually goes to mass transit (light rail, subways, bus systems, etc). Like everyone else, I see the stories about money from the Fund being used for things like bike paths, scenic viewing areas, and the conversion of abandoned railroad routes into pedestrian paths. I looked around briefly, but couldn't find a dollar amount. I'll bet it's very small.

>>Apparently bike paths and railroad tracks and other like crap is considered road funding.

I'd say it's "transportation." Mass transit and bike riders help limit road congestion (I know I could do without sitting in traffic jams on the highway), and they have a less destructive impact on the environment. They also generate less damage to our road system and may thereby actually reduce the need to spend money on road maintenance.

Congress needs to find more money to support our surface transportation network. We're all familiar with the way things like that go.

+++++

We might also benefit from focusing more on maintenance and repair as opposed to building new rods.

 

[PirateMk1]

Re: Should America pay to fix its bridges?[

stealing money? how so? The Federal Highway Trust fund can only be used to fund roadway improvements. It simply doesn't have enough money, see the federal gasoline tax hasn't been raised since 1993. They've consistently raised the taxes on diesel fuel because the largest number of voters don't drive diesel vehicles, and since the majority of road users burn gas, driving up diesel taxes won't fix problems forever.

This is something I am an something of an expert on.
First of all there is more than one fund, each state and a lot of municipalities have one as well as the US.
Secondly those funds are funded through a variety of taxes of which the gasoline tax is only one of several. Heavy vehicles and the new parts used to repair them are charged a 12% excise tax on top of any other taxes collected.
Thirdly those funds were specifically instituted in almost all cases for first maintenance of the existing system and improvements as needed.

Current Federal gas tax is 18.4 cents a gallon. The tax on diesel is 24.4 cents per gallon. That does not include any other taxes including sales or state taxes or local taxes. Example California typical taxes for 2.70 a gallon would break down to as follows for gasoline 18.4 cents federal, 39 cents state excise, 24 cents on a state average sales tax of 9 percent, 10 cents minimum for cap and trade taxes a (California exclusive), plus whatever the locals add on. The bare minimum tax on gasoline in the state of California is 91.7 cents a gallon so your actual gas cost at $2.70 a gallon would be $1.783 The typical gas station profit on gas is about 10% so they make 17.83 cents per gallon at that price. California gets 91.7 cents out of a gallon of gas, the gas station owner gets 17.83 cents a gallon of gas. Is that even fair??? How much gas is used and sold in this country? Just gasoline, not diesel. I am in the trucking/ transportation/ logistics business its gets worse on the commercial side with lots of fees and things cars owners don't deal with and they still claim we don't pay our fair share. We pay more per gallon in tax, we use far more fuel per mile of road and we have more and steeper taxes besides. Don't get me started on the bull**** on the commercial side.

There is no reason ANY of the highway funds should be underfunded except for one, misappropriation. The money was stolen out of the funds by your elected leaders to use on purposes other than roads and bridges. There should be plenty of money for the road system. Every year the highway fund should have more than enough money to fix EVERY pothole and maintain or improve roads as necessary.

Bottom line I and everyone who drives pays damn good money to have the roads maintained there is absolutely NO excuse. NONE ZERO ZIP.

 

[PirateMk1]

Re: Should America pay to fix its bridges?[

Yes, and it actually exists, not just "supposedly."

>>The problem is the twits in charge keep stealing it.

No, the problem is that we're having difficulty generating revenues for it. Fuel efficiency has increased substantially over the years, and people are driving less.

About twenty percent of $40 billion expended through the fund annually goes to mass transit (light rail, subways, bus systems, etc). Like everyone else, I see the stories about money from the Fund being used for things like bike paths, scenic viewing areas, and the conversion of abandoned railroad routes into pedestrian paths. I looked around briefly, but couldn't find a dollar amount. I'll bet it's very small.

>>Apparently bike paths and railroad tracks and other like crap is considered road funding.

I'd say it's "transportation." Mass transit and bike riders help limit road congestion (I know I could do without sitting in traffic jams on the highway), and they have a less destructive impact on the environment. They also generate less damage to our road system and may thereby actually reduce the need to spend money on road maintenance.

Congress needs to find more money to support our surface transportation network. We're all familiar with the way things like that go.

+++++

We might also benefit from focusing more on maintenance and repair as opposed to building new rods.

I am going to put this politely. My business uses public highways, I know what I am talking about. This my livelihood and pet peeve. This subject pisses me off to no end. Believe me when I say YOU as a driver pay dearly to maintain those roads. That money is being stolen. Pure and simple. Post 68 breaks down your typical gas taxes. Just the typical gas taxes YOU pay. That does NOT include all of the other taxes you pay on your automobile to drive. That breakdown is not what I pay as a commercial user of the highway system. Mines a tich steeper. Take a look some time at the highway fund revues and then look at what those funds are spent on. More than half the fund EVERY year is spent on things other than roads or bridges. You would be pissed off too. The difference between you and I is I have to keep an eye on these things and pay money to my lobbing groups to keep as much of the fund to repairing highways as I can. Bad ill repaired highways effect my bottom line with more frequent and sever repairs and maintenance of equipment.

 

[mmi]

Re: Should America pay to fix its bridges?[

I am going to put this politely.

I appreciate that. I hope I deserve it.

>>Take a look some time at the highway fund revues and then look at what those funds are spent on.

I just did, in response to yer post.

>>More than half the fund EVERY year is spent on things other than roads or bridges.

Can you offer evidence to support that? The material I looked at say the figure is twenty percent, last year eight out of forty billion dollars.

Fwiw, I strongly support adequate road and bridge maintenance. Seems like common sense to me. That's why I started this thread. I'd say the problem is that revenues for the HTF are inadequate, not that they're being (mis)directed to build bike paths.

 

[PirateMk1]

Re: Should America pay to fix its bridges?[

I appreciate that. I hope I deserve it.

>>Take a look some time at the highway fund revues and then look at what those funds are spent on.

I just did, in response to yer post.

>>More than half the fund EVERY year is spent on things other than roads or bridges.

Can you offer evidence to support that? The material I looked at say the figure is twenty percent, last year eight out of forty billion dollars.

Fwiw, I strongly support adequate road and bridge maintenance. Seems like common sense to me. That's why I started this thread. I'd say the problem is that revenues for the HTF are inadequate, not that they're being (mis)directed to build bike paths.

I presume you read post 68 on the gas tax break down?

Unfortunately you have to go into the weeds to sus out what is really going on. IE go into individual appropriations. If you really want I can get the materials that OOIDA, NASTC and couple of other associations have for me and try break out some specific numbers, programs, appropriations ect. but I am going to have to go digging for it. That may take some time to roust.

Remember also the Federal government is just part of it. California where I am from has a far larger excise tax alone than the Feds. There is a lot of bull**** hanky panky going on with it. Then there are the states, some worse than others.

You are paying something on the order of at least 75 cents a gallon of gas alone in tax ro state feds and local. How much in DMV fees and taxes do you pay. Tolls?? There is a lot of money generated by the road you drive for government.

 

[Bodi]

Re: Should America pay to fix its bridges?[

Print some for me and I'll show you the opposite of inflation.

I loaned my money printing press to a friend and never got it back... otherwise I would.

 

[cabse5]

Re: Should America pay to fix its bridges?[

Slave labor maybe? Non-union workers? Migrant workers from Mexico? Use less quality materials? It's not just bridges either or at just the federal level. Roads, bridges, electrical grid, sewer, water, environmental clean up and more. We don't have the money. Then we will have to build sea walls to hold back sea level rise. We don't have the money. Storm damage increasingly an expensive problem. We don't have the money.

Infrastructure spending takes high priority. Some other spending will have to go. That's the job for the current and future governments. Hypothetically, who has the better handle on cutting spending? Trump or Hillary?

 

[radcen]

Re: Should America pay to fix its bridges?[

Infrastructure spending takes high priority. Some other spending will have to go. That's the job for the current and future governments. Hypothetically, who has the better handle on cutting spending? Trump or Hillary?

I see President Hillary increasing spending on social programs, and infrastructure investment will be left behind... again.

 

[Moderate Right]

Re: Should America pay to fix its bridges?[

I'm not so sure why it is the fed's responsibility to do this infrastructure spending anyway. The way I understand it the fed's are responsible for interstate highways, bridges, etc. while it is the state's responsibility for state roads, bridges, etc. Probably at least 50% of infrastructure spending should be at the state level.