Should all currently standing border walls be demolished?

[Josie]

Maybe when your side finally tires of accusing liberals of "wanting open borders", we'll be able to have a rational discussion.
But this stupid Trump wall is a dick measuring contest, and there are, as illustrated, lots of better ways to combat illegal immigration, and we already have laws on the books that we're not enforcing strictly enough anyway.

I'm a liberal, and I am in favor of a more "merit based" approach, I am in favor of increased border security, and as a Californian, I am even in favor of making several major adjustments to our so called "sanctuary cities" laws to take into account the fact that criminals are slipping through the cracks when they shouldn't.

But you guys go ahead and keep up with the nonsense, and Josie and the rest of you can keep putting up stupid polls as a "gotcha!" and celebrate it. Meanwhile, let's not lose sight of the fact that this wall was supposed to be PAID FOR BY MEXICO.

Remember? Of course not.

Cue Trumpian excuses, dodging, goalpost moving, deflection and projection in 3--2--1....

Uh, guy. I've been saying from the beginning that Trump was full of it on the wall - especially the stupid "Mexico will pay for it" idiocy.

Also, note how I voted in this poll. I'm not for spending millions of dollars on a wall. The laws already on the books need to be enforced and companies need to pay penalties out the wazoo for hiring illegal immigrants.

 

[JasperL]

Do you feel the same way about the lock on your front door?

I do! That lock (at least for my house) is a minor nuisance, not a barrier. Anyone acting with purpose would be in my house in 10 seconds or less. The lock might deter kids....

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Uh, guy. I've been saying from the beginning that Trump was full of it on the wall - especially the stupid "Mexico will pay for it" idiocy.

Also, note how I voted in this poll. I'm not for spending millions of dollars on a wall. The laws already on the books need to be enforced and companies need to pay penalties out the wazoo for hiring illegal immigrants.

I didn't even look at the poll because it was set up as a "GOTCHA!".

Glad to hear you have reasonable positions on the matter but your poll choices don't reflect them even remotely. I'd almost credit Grokmaster with the poll choices, but I don't want to insult you.

Still, the poll wasn't even worth looking at, so I didn't.

 

[Nickyjo]

If it were being enforced, we wouldn't have an issue and wouldn't be talking about this.
Obama's inflated deportation numbers had more to do with a definition change than anything else.

Fair enough about Obama stats as I have heard that before, but he enforced the border as has every president. The issue is not enforcement, but how. Calling Mexican migrants rapists, insisting on my way or the highway with the wall with no analysis, no studies or evidence of its possible effectiveness as compared to other strategies, lying about and flagrantly breaking the law with respect to asylum seekers, etc., is not the way to get comprehensive immigration reform.

Trump's party controls the government. If the GOP thought the wall was a a dandy idea, they would have done something in the past couple of years. It is Trump's fault to have tied his reputation to the wall.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

I do! That lock (at least for my house) is a minor nuisance, not a barrier. Anyone acting with purpose would be in my house in 10 seconds or less. The lock might deter kids....

Re locks, the way I look at it is, the lock deters them temporarily, my Taurus pistol deters them permanently.
Hopefully they observe the little "We don't dial 9-1-1" sticker on the door and get the hint.

And I'm a California bleeding heart libtard, go figure.

 

[Rogue Valley]

Do you feel the same way about the lock on your front door?

Yes, and anyone that bets his health or treasure exclusively on a front door lock is a fool.

 

[Josie]

I didn't even look at the poll because it was set up as a "GOTCHA!".

Explain how this is a “gotcha” poll.

Glad to hear you have reasonable positions on the matter but your poll choices don't reflect them even remotely. I'd almost credit Grokmaster with the poll choices, but I don't want to insult you.

Still, the poll wasn't even worth looking at, so I didn't.

Oh? Please list what the poll options should’ve been.

 

[JasperL]

Re locks, the way I look at it is, the lock deters them temporarily, my Taurus pistol deters them permanently.
Hopefully they observe the little "We don't dial 9-1-1" sticker on the door and get the hint.

And I'm a California bleeding heart libtard, go figure.

The sticker might be better than a lock!

I feel roughly the same way, but what we rely on are noisy dogs, which are also excellent deterrents. Although one died just before Thanksgiving and the other is old and doesn't hardly bark.... Guess we need another dog. I have several guns, but don't bother keeping a loaded on in the bedroom. We're lucky to live in a pretty safe area - although petty crime isn't rare. A few months ago, a neighbor lady got home from the store, took some groceries into the house and a crook stole her purse in that 10-20 seconds or so she was inside.... Someone that would do that isn't worried about locks.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Explain how this is a “gotcha” poll.



Oh? Please list what the poll options should’ve been.

I wouldn't have used a poll at all.
I'd much rather just have a discussion.
Hey, don't take this so personally. I just think that the poll choices felt gotcha-like. Your mileage may vary.
Polls are blunt tools when it comes to complex issues, and the immigration issue is a complex issue.

Maybe the poll should have just been
"Are you in favor of Trump's wall - - YES/NO"

 

[Josie]

I wouldn't have used a poll at all.
I'd much rather just have a discussion.
Hey, don't take this so personally. I just think that the poll choices felt gotcha-like. Your mileage may vary.
Polls are blunt tools when it comes to complex issues, and the immigration issue is a complex issue.

Maybe the poll should have just been
"Are you in favor of Trump's wall - - YES/NO"

Explain how the choices are “gotcha-like” and your idea of a “yes or no” poll isn’t.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Explain how the choices are “gotcha-like” and your idea of a “yes or no” poll isn’t.

1. Yes, all border walls should be demolished
2. No, leave the current border walls up
3. No, the entire border should have a wall

Where are the choices for:

1. Keep the current walls, but stop tying wall funding to CR's and other budget bills
3. No more walls, keep the current ones that work but we don't need additional walls
5. We need more enforcement of existing laws, not walls

Also, a simple YES/NO poll isn't a gotcha because people can explain their reasoning in the post areas.
Again, I personally wouldn't have even used a poll at all, first choice.
But that's just me, I guess.

 

[Josie]

1. Yes, all border walls should be demolished
2. No, leave the current border walls up
3. No, the entire border should have a wall

Where are the choices for:

1. Keep the current walls, but stop tying wall funding to CR's and other budget bills
3. No more walls, keep the current ones that work but we don't need additional walls
5. We need more enforcement of existing laws, not walls

Dude - you are the one who just told me the poll answers should’ve been “yes” or “no”. LOL!

Edit after your edit - anyone can explain further in their reply in any poll.

 

[Taylor]

Trump's party controls the government. If the GOP thought the wall was a a dandy idea, they would have done something in the past couple of years. It is Trump's fault to have tied his reputation to the wall.

Yes, I and others have commented in this thread that most of the people in power on both sides don't seem to really want to address this meaningfully. Trump's sudden reversal this week is the result of direct pressure from voters, not the GOP.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Dude - you are the one who just told me the poll answers should’ve been “yes” or “no”. LOL!

Edit after your edit - anyone can explain further in their reply in any poll.

"Maybe if" it had just been YES/NO
Your mileage may vary.

Look, maybe I'm just weary of there being so many gotcha polls.
If yours wasn't, I'll take your word for it

 

[Taylor]

Maybe when your side finally tires of accusing liberals of "wanting open borders", we'll be able to have a rational discussion.
But this stupid Trump wall is a dick measuring contest, and there are, as illustrated, lots of better ways to combat illegal immigration, and we already have laws on the books that we're not enforcing strictly enough anyway.

Yup, methods that require constant funding and political willpower have a history of failure. And now you're recommending more of the same.

 

[JasperL]

Yup, methods that require constant funding and political willpower have a history of failure. And now you're recommending more of the same.

That's the thing, though - the wall will also require constant funding and political willpower. Without a robust presence of people, border agents, all long the new wall, it will fail to do much if anything. And the 1,100 mile wall (I think that's the latest) will require constant maintenance over time as motivated people dig under, or find ways through, the wall (and over of course, but that doesn't require maintenance).

And that ignores that some large majority of current 'illegals' get here legally and are therefore not deterred or even inconvenienced by a wall.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Yup, methods that require constant funding and political willpower have a history of failure. And now you're recommending more of the same.

That's your take on it. By the way, walls require constant funding and have a history of failure, and a nation with crumbling bridges and roads shouldn't be ga-ga to start on a wall when you can't even depend on the bridges to hold up.

 

[Taylor]

That's your take on it. By the way, walls require constant funding

Less so than other methods, I expect. There's a reason we have so much of it already in place.

a nation with crumbling bridges and roads shouldn't be ga-ga to start on a wall when you can't even depend on the bridges to hold up.

I don't see that one has much to do with the other. It's not an either/or.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Less so than other methods, I expect. There's a reason we have so much of it already in place.


I don't see that one has much to do with the other. It's not an either/or.

You guys want Democrats to enable your stupid ideas. Well, it's not going to happen, particularly after TEN years of listening to you Trumpians browbeat us nonstop.
What do WE get out of the deal?
Oh, the government stays open?
Yeah right, once we cave on this, hostage taking will be Trump's new toy, and he will use it at every opportunity.

No...no way. No way in Hell, and the shutdown is on Trump and every last one of his supporters.
It's not going to happen. Democrats are not going to help Herr Trump with his agenda, because it's poisonous.

 

[Fledermaus]

Get real. As noted, Obama was referred to as the “deporter in chief” by immigrant advocates. Yes, democrats will not call immigrants names or spread false info about their behavior because of their Latino constituency, but the border has been enforced by both parties.

I remember that...

 

[DiAnna]

There is a large component missing from those options.

Between "No, leave the current border walls up" and "No, the entire border should have a wall" should be the option "No, new border walls should be added where illegal immigration is a large problem, and where landowners request the assistance of such walls to protect themselves and their property".

 

[Taylor]

You guys want Democrats to enable your stupid ideas. Well, it's not going to happen, particularly after TEN years of listening to you Trumpians browbeat us nonstop.
What do WE get out of the deal?
Oh, the government stays open?
Yeah right, once we cave on this, hostage taking will be Trump's new toy, and he will use it at every opportunity.

No...no way. No way in Hell, and the shutdown is on Trump and every last one of his supporters.
It's not going to happen. Democrats are not going to help Herr Trump with his agenda, because it's poisonous.

Yes, we all know how this works. I agree. I don't expect the Dems to do much of anything to help the country for the next two years.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Yes, we all know how this works. I agree. I don't expect the Dems to do much of anything to help the country for the next two years.

The overwhelming majority of Americans aren't interested in a wall, and they think it's a stupid idea, so your definition of "helping the country" need remedial attention.

 

[Grand Mal]

The only border walls that should be destroyed are the ones Trump put up or wants to put up. The ones that were there before him and the ones that go up after him are fine.

X Factor? Is that you?

 

[SDET]

The notion of border security is a joke. America has thousands of miles of borders and coastline. The idea that we could ever come close to stopping people from entering the country illegally is delusional. Not to mention the reality that 75% of undocumented immigrants come to the country legally on work visas and student visas and simply overstay the visas. A wall can't stop that.

And then there is, of course, the most obvious reality that immigration is actually a good thing. Even the illegal kind is beneficial to our overall economy. Immigrants generate significantly more wealth than they use up.

So, I get it! Hiring people without a background check is a bad idea only if they are US born. Glad you cleared that up!