Should all cars sold in the United States be forced to do so through a dealership?

[Imnukingfutz]

Re: Should all cars sold in the United States be forced to do so through a dealership

But didn't you then say you can't buy directly from the manufacturer? It's not like there are only 1 or 2 factory direct stores, there are hundreds to choose from.

No, I did not say you cant, I DID say there are exceptions and those exceptions are far and few in between. The exception with outlet stores is that outlet stores can only sell over stocked items, refurbished items irregulars etc.

And yes, there are quite a few outlet stores, but you arent getting the most recent stuff...its stuff they couldnt sell to the distributors.

 

[Imnukingfutz]

Re: Should all cars sold in the United States be forced to do so through a dealership

Buying raw materials and/or components, then manufacturing and/or assembling them into final products, is common in many industries. The final product doesn't exist until finished, i.e.; McDs, Tonka trucks, Dell computers, whatever.

Now you are just trying to be difficult...throwing a burger on a bun, plopping some condiments on it and wrapping it up is not buying factory direct.

 

[radcen]

Re: Should all cars sold in the United States be forced to do so through a dealership

Now you are just trying to be difficult...throwing a burger on a bun, plopping some condiments on it and wrapping it up is not buying factory direct.

Oh. You didn't like my answer. A restaurant is not a "food factory"?

McD's buys buns and lettuce from suppliers and builds you a hamburger, and often sells it direct to you through their own stores. Dell computers buys components from suppliers and builds you a computer and often sells it direct to you through their own website. What's the difference?

You never really did cite any sources as I had previously requested, ya know. All you did was throw out some vague statement about varying by state, etc.

 

[Imnukingfutz]

Re: Should all cars sold in the United States be forced to do so through a dealership

Oh. You didn't like my answer. A restaurant is not a "food factory"?

McD's buys buns and lettuce from suppliers and builds you a hamburger, and often sells it direct to you through their own stores. Dell computers buys components from suppliers and builds you a computer and often sells it direct to you through their own website. What's the difference?

You never really did cite any sources as I had previously requested, ya know. All you did was throw out some vague statement about varying by state, etc.

Yea OK sure...when you buy a burger from McDonalds you are buying factory direct, thanks for sharing.

Did you bother to read the two links I provided? There are lists & links to laws there, it tells why they are in place and if they are Federal or state laws. I am sure it does not cover all the laws that exist to this topic but they are a good start....especially for someone that thinks a fast food restaurant is a factory.

 

[Helix]

Re: Should all cars sold in the United States be forced to do so through a dealership

Car companies should be allowed to sell vehicles however they wish. The sales model should not be controlled by the state.

 

[Heebie Jeebie]

Re: Should all cars sold in the United States be forced to do so through a dealership

No, I did not say you cant, I DID say there are exceptions and those exceptions are far and few in between. The exception with outlet stores is that outlet stores can only sell over stocked items, refurbished items irregulars etc.

And yes, there are quite a few outlet stores, but you arent getting the most recent stuff...its stuff they couldnt sell to the distributors.

The point is you are allowed to buy direct from the manufacturer so what makes a car special? There are plenty places to buy direct from and it's not just seconds or discontinued items. You can buy flooring, windows, food, electronics and all sorts of stuff direct.

 

[Imnukingfutz]

Re: Should all cars sold in the United States be forced to do so through a dealership

The point is you are allowed to buy direct from the manufacturer so what makes a car special? There are plenty places to buy direct from and it's not just seconds or discontinued items. You can buy flooring, windows, food, electronics and all sorts of stuff direct.

Im sure if you wanted to buy scratch & dent, irregulars or overstocked merchandise they cant sell to distributors you could, or if you wanted to buy 300 of them at one time...if they had a retail outlet center to sell those things.

And unfortunately you cant buy factory direct unless they have a retail outlet. You can buy a DELL computer from DELL through their retail outlet center, you can but an LG TV through LG retail outlet center.

We have a Frito Lay plant here where I live, we cant go to the factory and purchase a bag of Doritos but we can go to their outlet store and buy one, same building different entrance. The retail outlet is a state certified (licensed) retail store capable of collecting sales tax where the factory is not.

I guess it all breaks down to...does the factory have a state licensed retail outlet center capable of collecting sales tax. The second question for that would be...does the factory want to bother opening a retail outlet or is it better for them to sell to other retail establishments and get their product to more people.

 

[Heebie Jeebie]

Re: Should all cars sold in the United States be forced to do so through a dealership

Im sure if you wanted to buy scratch & dent, irregulars or overstocked merchandise they cant sell to distributors you could, or if you wanted to buy 300 of them at one time...if they had a retail outlet center to sell those things.

And unfortunately you cant buy factory direct unless they have a retail outlet. You can buy a DELL computer from DELL through their retail outlet center, you can but an LG TV through LG retail outlet center.

We have a Frito Lay plant here where I live, we cant go to the factory and purchase a bag of Doritos but we can go to their outlet store and buy one, same building different entrance. The retail outlet is a state certified (licensed) retail store capable of collecting sales tax where the factory is not.

I guess it all breaks down to...does the factory have a state licensed retail outlet center capable of collecting sales tax. The second question for that would be...does the factory want to bother opening a retail outlet or is it better for them to sell to other retail establishments and get their product to more people.

Every Dell I've bought has been direct from Dell, it's how they do business.

I can order windows and flooring direct from a manufacturer. I can buy food direct from the grower. Heck my company will sell direct if there is no local distributor in your area. There are tons of website where you can buy direct but apparently cars are somehow different. I don't get it.

 

[fmw]

Re: Should all cars sold in the United States be forced to do so through a dealership

I don't get it.

Sure you do. Politics and an efffectively strong lobby. In our state it is illegal for a car dealer to be open on Sunday. Dealers wanted a day off but didn't want their competitors to have an advantage. They lobbied the state government. Stupid law. Most of them are because they are based on politics and power rather than on the common good.

 

[Heebie Jeebie]

Re: Should all cars sold in the United States be forced to do so through a dealership

Sure you do. Politics and an efffectively strong lobby. In our state it is illegal for a car dealer to be open on Sunday. Dealers wanted a day off but didn't want their competitors to have an advantage. They lobbied the state government. Stupid law. Most of them are because they are based on politics and power rather than on the common good.

It's the same with liquor here but it also applies to businesses. You have to go through a liquor distributor to purchase any booze.

 

[Imnukingfutz]

Re: Should all cars sold in the United States be forced to do so through a dealership

Every Dell I've bought has been direct from Dell, it's how they do business.

I can order windows and flooring direct from a manufacturer. I can buy food direct from the grower. Heck my company will sell direct if there is no local distributor in your area. There are tons of website where you can buy direct but apparently cars are somehow different. I don't get it.

You buy from their retail outlets not the manufacturer itself, they are capable of collecting sales tax when necessary.

I was re-reading my posts throughout this thread and I never said it but I am against the laws and such that prohibit the free market...capitalism. I really think it is done to ensure that government - Federal, state & local gets its portions of the product via taxation...both as sales tax and again as income tax.

 

[Heebie Jeebie]

Re: Should all cars sold in the United States be forced to do so through a dealership

You buy from their retail outlets not the manufacturer itself, they are capable of collecting sales tax when necessary.

It's still the manufacturer. When I pull up to a road side stand and buy tomatoes from a farmer I'm buying direct. When I order a computer from Dell I'm buying direct from Dell, just like everyone else in the country is. If you want to try and split hairs by saying I'm ordering from customer service not the manufacturer go ahead.

 

[Imnukingfutz]

Re: Should all cars sold in the United States be forced to do so through a dealership

It's still the manufacturer. When I pull up to a road side stand and buy tomatoes from a farmer I'm buying direct. When I order a computer from Dell I'm buying direct from Dell, just like everyone else in the country is. If you want to try and split hairs by saying I'm ordering from customer service not the manufacturer go ahead.

I am not twisting words, when you buy from the roadside farmer..OK you are buying factory direct...or grower direct.

But you are not when you are buying a Dell (your example)

Dell, Inc. (Dell) is a global information technology company that offers its customers a range of solutions and services delivered directly by Dell and through other distribution channels. Dell is a holding company that conducts its business worldwide through its subsidiaries. The Company operates in four segments: Large Enterprise, Public, Small and Medium Business, and Consumer. Its Large Enterprise customers include global and national corporate businesses. Its Public customers, which include educational institutions, government, health care, and law enforcement agencies, operate in their own communities. Its SMB segment is focused on helping small and medium-sized businesses by offering products, services, and solutions. Its Consumer segment is focused on delivering technology experience of entertainment, mobility, gaming, and design. In December 2012, it acquired Credant Technologies. In May 2013, it announced the acquisition of Enstratius.

They manufacture the computer in one of their companies, sell it to another one of their companies and they in turn sell it to you....all under the DELL name. You are not buying "factory direct" when you purchase from Dell....legally speaking.

Pay attention to how companies play within the law to skirt the law.

Buying from a company owned store to you and me is buying factory direct, but legally that store is a separate entity to be compliant to laws.

 

[Heebie Jeebie]

Re: Should all cars sold in the United States be forced to do so through a dealership

I am not twisting words, when you buy from the roadside farmer..OK you are buying factory direct...or grower direct.

But you are not when you are buying a Dell (your example)

Dell, Inc. (Dell) is a global information technology company that offers its customers a range of solutions and services delivered directly by Dell and through other distribution channels. Dell is a holding company that conducts its business worldwide through its subsidiaries. The Company operates in four segments: Large Enterprise, Public, Small and Medium Business, and Consumer. Its Large Enterprise customers include global and national corporate businesses. Its Public customers, which include educational institutions, government, health care, and law enforcement agencies, operate in their own communities. Its SMB segment is focused on helping small and medium-sized businesses by offering products, services, and solutions. Its Consumer segment is focused on delivering technology experience of entertainment, mobility, gaming, and design. In December 2012, it acquired Credant Technologies. In May 2013, it announced the acquisition of Enstratius.

They manufacture the computer in one of their companies, sell it to another one of their companies and they in turn sell it to you....all under the DELL name. You are not buying "factory direct" when you purchase from Dell....legally speaking.

Pay attention to how companies play within the law to skirt the law.

Buying from a company owned store to you and me is buying factory direct, but legally that store is a separate entity to be compliant to laws.

Whether it's a separate entity or not is irrelevant, they are owned by the same company unlike car dealerships or manufacturers distributors. When I order from Dell, Dell builds it, ships it and bills me for it. Whether they are different divisions that do the different tasks doesn't change the fact that they are owned by the same company.

"NOTE: These U.S. Consumer Terms of Sale apply to direct purchases made from Dell by phone, the internet or the Dell Direct store.

These Terms of Sale ("Agreement") apply to your purchase of products and/or services and support ("Product") sold in the United States by Dell, including its affiliates or subsidiaries."

http://www.dell.com/learn/us/en/uscorp1/terms-of-sale-consumer?c=us&l=en&s=corp&cs=uscorp1

 

[radcen]

Re: Should all cars sold in the United States be forced to do so through a dealership

Whether it's a separate entity or not is irrelevant, they are owned by the same company unlike car dealerships or manufacturers distributors. When I order from Dell, Dell builds it, ships it and bills me for it. Whether they are different divisions that do the different tasks doesn't change the fact that they are owned by the same company.

"NOTE: These U.S. Consumer Terms of Sale apply to direct purchases made from Dell by phone, the internet or the Dell Direct store.

These Terms of Sale ("Agreement") apply to your purchase of products and/or services and support ("Product") sold in the United States by Dell, including its affiliates or subsidiaries."

Consumer | Dell

Bingo. They're only "split" for their own internal reasons and convenience... and are still fully within the law. It's still the same people/company.

 

[Campbell]

Re: Should all cars sold in the United States be forced to do so through a dealership

When's the last time you ever bought a car direct from the manufacturer?

LOL....surely you jest. With 500 companies making money off of sick people in the U S and America still being rated 37th in the world in general health and longevity the idea that a rich man would give any of us an even break tears up any thought of a fair deal. Just an observation.

 

[radcen]

Re: Should all cars sold in the United States be forced to do so through a dealership

LOL....surely you jest. With 500 companies making money off of sick people in the U S and America still being rated 37th in the world in general health and longevity the idea that a rich man would give any of us an even break tears up any thought of a fair deal. Just an observation.

Could somebody please decode this post for me? :shrug:

 

[Campbell]

Re: Should all cars sold in the United States be forced to do so through a dealership

Could somebody please decode this post for me? :shrug:

It means if an individual seller will take less for a vehicle than a goddamned profit oriented company they should be able to sell it any way they choose. The 500 companies should forfeit their right to charge anything they want to charge for health care which is exactly what's going on in America. Big business rules. They have the politicians in their pockets so ordinary Americans will have to get used to getting ****ed.

A minimum wage which is less than $10.00 an hour is a damned rich man's dream and it should be outlawed. Anyone who works over 40 hours a week should be paid at a rate 1 1/2 times their normal pay for the extra hours and any working American should be granted health care and a month's vacation each year. The rich in this country have tripled their incomes since Reagan assumed the white house while ordinary workers have seen their wages totally flat after adjusted for taxes and inflation. We're headed for a Republican's dream...a Lord/Serf society.

 

[obvious Child]

Re: Should all cars sold in the United States be forced to do so through a dealership

When's the last time you ever bought a car direct from the manufacturer?

When was the last time they let you?

I see no reason though to prohibit buying directly from the manufacturer.

 

[Imnukingfutz]

Re: Should all cars sold in the United States be forced to do so through a dealership

Whether it's a separate entity or not is irrelevant, they are owned by the same company unlike car dealerships or manufacturers distributors. When I order from Dell, Dell builds it, ships it and bills me for it. Whether they are different divisions that do the different tasks doesn't change the fact that they are owned by the same company.

"NOTE: These U.S. Consumer Terms of Sale apply to direct purchases made from Dell by phone, the internet or the Dell Direct store.

These Terms of Sale ("Agreement") apply to your purchase of products and/or services and support ("Product") sold in the United States by Dell, including its affiliates or subsidiaries."

Consumer | Dell

It may be the very same company, true, but they jumped through the hoops to get a retail portion so they can sell the goods to you legally and be compliant with the law. You are still buying from a retail outlet - legally speaking - you are not buying factory direct. You can purchase the same XPS laptop at Best Buy for the same price you can from DELL's website.

Its stupid that we can not buy straight from manufacturers without going through a retail center.

Chrysler has manufacturer owned dealerships - Motor Village LA was one of them, recently sold to New Century Automotive Group.
Ford had its "auto collection" - a group of Company owned dealerships - 3 in Michigan, 1 in NY & 1 in Tenn - http://fordland.com/fl-dealerships.html

By your logic and your argument about DELL, You can buy automobiles "factory Direct"

 

[Heebie Jeebie]

Re: Should all cars sold in the United States be forced to do so through a dealership

Could somebody please decode this post for me? :shrug:

Just wait, I'm sure he will post a chart that has nothing to do with the subject to help you understand him.

 

[Heebie Jeebie]

Re: Should all cars sold in the United States be forced to do so through a dealership

It may be the very same company, true, but they jumped through the hoops to get a retail portion so they can sell the goods to you legally and be compliant with the law. You are still buying from a retail outlet - legally speaking - you are not buying factory direct. You can purchase the same XPS laptop at Best Buy for the same price you can from DELL's website.

How they set their business up to comply with the law is irrelevant. They are the same company and when you buy from Dell you are buying from the manufacturer. What other retail stores sell the product for is their decision.

Try buying an Ferrari Enzo and let me know who you would buy it from

 

[Imnukingfutz]

Re: Should all cars sold in the United States be forced to do so through a dealership

How they set their business up to comply with the law is irrelevant. They are the same company and when you buy from Dell you are buying from the manufacturer. What other retail stores sell the product for is their decision.

Try buying an Ferrari Enzo and let me know who you would buy it from

By your logic, you can purchase automobiles directly from the manufacturer...manufacturers own their own retail outlets centers, so buy from there...after all its the same company, it doesnt matter how they set it up to comply with the law right? So by your logic the whole OP point is moot because you can purchase automobiles directly from the manufacturer.

Thank you for clearing that up for us :2wave:

 

[Captain Adverse]

Re: Should all cars sold in the United States be forced to do so through a dealership

I ran across this new report today that among other things, reported that in Texas its illegal for Americans to buy cars directly from the manufacturer. A third-party dealership MUST be used in auto sales in Texas, which of course, will drive up the cost to consumers? Is it the government's business to force car buyers and sellers they must have a middle-man in their transaction? Is it appropriate for the government to step in an help "maintain a level playing field" so that all cars are bought and sold under identical conditions? If and when government steps in in such cases, does that disrupt the free market and restrict pricing models that ultimately harm consumers? Should the same automobile sales model apply to all auto purchases in the interest of fairness? If yes, should similar sales models apply to all consumer purchases such as a requirement to buy electronics from an electronics store and never online unless the seller also has brick and mortar stores in the same sales region?

I voted "OTHER" because while I like free enterprise I also like to SEE major items before I buy them.

I don't mean "see it on a video" either, I mean touch it, open the hood, do a test drive, ask questions...all BEFORE I decide to spend $60,000 on it.

I'm amazed at how many people have bought into this internet shopping deal. Maybe for small items that you don't mind wasting money on. However, for major items like electronics, appliances and CARS...don't you want to see what the friking thing can do BEFORE you buy it??? :twocents:

 

[radcen]

Re: Should all cars sold in the United States be forced to do so through a dealership

I voted "OTHER" because while I like free enterprise I also like to SEE major items before I buy them.

I don't mean "see it on a video" either, I mean touch it, open the hood, do a test drive, ask questions...all BEFORE I decide to spend $60,000 on it.

I'm amazed at how many people have bought into this internet shopping deal. Maybe for small items that you don't mind wasting money on. However, for major items like electronics, appliances and CARS...don't you want to see what the friking thing can do BEFORE you buy it??? :twocents:

I'm with you in that I would need to see it and try it before I buy, too. Especially at that price.

But, if, say, I had three friends who each had one, and I got to check their's out, that might be good enough.