Should all cars sold in the United States be forced to do so through a dealership?

[radcen]

Re: Should all cars sold in the United States be forced to do so through a dealership

The amount of hassle has to do with how many lawsuits will be filed in federal court over crappy warranty service.

I would imagine this would be contract law for not honoring a warranty, but at the same time a company is not required to offer a warranty at all if they choose not to.

 

[Dittohead not!]

Re: Should all cars sold in the United States be forced to do so through a dealership

I don't know the history in great detail, but I'd be willing to bet that in the early days of automobile manufacturing that many were available through mail order and/or catalog order... some probably exclusively... and there wasn't an official service facility within 500 miles of the buyer.

I'd also bet that the laws regarding dealership requirements were actually protectionist laws lobbied for by groups of dealers and/or some manufacturers under the guise of a level playing field, but really solely to keep their foot in the market by restricting other more efficient competition.

Pretty much all you needed to service the old cars was a crescent wrench, a pair of pliers, a screwdriver, and perhaps some bailing wire. Today's cars are a bit more complex.

But I'm pretty sure you're right that laws against buying directly from the manufacturer are actually protectionist laws lobbied for by groups of dealers.

 

[Fisher]

Re: Should all cars sold in the United States be forced to do so through a dealership

No it doesn't. As long as you fix them following the procedure in your warranty policy there is no problem.

I have known lots of car dealers who thought that was true too, and I have known some of them who had to pay out a ton of money because of that belief. :2wave:

 

[Fisher]

Re: Should all cars sold in the United States be forced to do so through a dealership

I would imagine this would be contract law for not honoring a warranty, but at the same time a company is not required to offer a warranty at all if they choose not to.

Well that is the rub. If they do not, then most people won't buy from them to begin with.

 

[Heebie Jeebie]

Re: Should all cars sold in the United States be forced to do so through a dealership

I have known lots of car dealers who thought that was true too, and I have known some of them who had to pay out a ton of money because of that belief. :2wave:

None of them got sued because it was a 'hassle' to follow a published warranty policy. They may have gotten sued because they couldn't fix the problem but not because of any 'hassle' in the policy.

 

[Fisher]

Re: Should all cars sold in the United States be forced to do so through a dealership

None of them got sued because it was a 'hassle' to follow a published warranty policy. They may have gotten sued because they couldn't fix the problem but not because of any 'hassle' in the policy.

No, because there are implied warranties and Courts do not like fine print and if you throw 100 counts at them in federal and state law, one will stick. :shock:

 

[Heebie Jeebie]

Re: Should all cars sold in the United States be forced to do so through a dealership

No, because there are implied warranties and Courts do not like fine print and if you throw 100 counts at them in federal and state law, one will stick. :shock:

There is nothing in law that requires a warranty to be 'hassle' free. For example it is not required that a car company give you a loaner car under their warranty policy or that they come and get your car if it breaks down. And there is nothing that requires a company to have local warranty service. Now a company offering these things has a big advantage over those who don't but it is up to each company to decide what their warranty covers and as long as it is plainly stated there is very little you can do after the fact to challenge it.

 

[Fisher]

Re: Should all cars sold in the United States be forced to do so through a dealership

There is nothing in law that requires a warranty to be 'hassle' free. For example it is not required that a car company give you a loaner car under their warranty policy or that they come and get your car if it breaks down. And there is nothing that requires a company to have local warranty service. Now a company offering these things has a big advantage over those who don't but it is up to each company to decide what their warranty covers and as long as it is plainly stated there is very little you can do after the fact to challenge it.

Strange that there is an attorney in my town who sued car dealerships exclusively and was so successful at it that they all turned around and basically paid him off to be their lawyer because they were tired of dropping buckets full of money into his lap. It is cheaper to buy him off than to continue paying his clients a hell of a lot more. It always starts as a warranty issue, but one form filled out incorrectly in the purchase, then there is a whole new can of worms you have opened up. Add into that a multitude of other laws dealing with consumer protection and credit protection, and there is the ball game. He was winning even when there was no warranty and it was stated that there was no warranty in big old print in all the paperwork. Sad thing is he is a really crappy lawyer but found his niche.

 

[Heebie Jeebie]

Re: Should all cars sold in the United States be forced to do so through a dealership

Strange that there is an attorney in my town who sued car dealerships exclusively and was so successful at it that they all turned around and basically paid him off to be their lawyer because they were tired of dropping buckets full of money into his lap. It is cheaper to buy him off than to continue paying his clients a hell of a lot more. It always starts as a warranty issue, but one form filled out incorrectly in the purchase, then there is a whole new can of worms you have opened up. Add into that a multitude of other laws dealing with consumer protection and credit protection, and there is the ball game. He was winning even when there was no warranty and it was stated that there was no warranty in big old print in all the paperwork. Sad thing is he is a really crappy lawyer but found his niche.

None of that has anything to do with a 'hassle' free warranty. If Tesla has a warranty that says the car must be shipped back to the factory at the customers expense for warranty evaluation and no loaner vehicle is supplied then that is their warranty and it cannot be challenged simply for what it is as it doesn't effect fitness of use or merchantability of the product or any other implied warranty. I don't see why the government feels the need to tell people they can't buy a car from a manufacturer just because there is no local service.

 

[Fisher]

Re: Should all cars sold in the United States be forced to do so through a dealership

None of that has anything to do with a 'hassle' free warranty. If Tesla has a warranty that says the car must be shipped back to the factory at the customers expense for warranty evaluation and no loaner vehicle is supplied then that is their warranty and it cannot be challenged simply for what it is as it doesn't effect fitness of use or merchantability of the product or any other implied warranty. I don't see why the government feels the need to tell people they can't buy a car from a manufacturer just because there is no local service.

It has everything to with with your assertion that all they need to do is put it into the warranty and they can do whatever they want. They cannot. As for Tesla, who gives a crap. They are probably on the ropes behind closed doors considering their golden boy is already looking for his next flash in the pan project.

 

[radcen]

Re: Should all cars sold in the United States be forced to do so through a dealership

Well that is the rub. If they do not, then most people won't buy from them to begin with.

Oh, no doubt, but the point is that enforcement of the warranty is a civil contractual issue, not a government mandate per se.

 

[Heebie Jeebie]

Re: Should all cars sold in the United States be forced to do so through a dealership

It has everything to with with your assertion that all they need to do is put it into the warranty and they can do whatever they want. They cannot. As for Tesla, who gives a crap. They are probably on the ropes behind closed doors considering their golden boy is already looking for his next flash in the pan project.

No it doesn't. The warranty does not have to make for no inconvenience to the customer. It just has to be honored the way it is stated. The problems usually occur in interpretation of what is covered when say wear parts are excluded or if record keeping is onerous or the item needs to be repeated repaired for the same problem.

 

[Heebie Jeebie]

Re: Should all cars sold in the United States be forced to do so through a dealership

Oh, no doubt, but the point is that enforcement of the warranty is a civil contractual issue, not a government mandate per se.

Yes. If you had to buy only where there was local service then most companies would be out of business. For example Sony has 4 warranty centers in the country, that ain't local service.

 

[Mason66]

Re: Should all cars sold in the United States be forced to do so through a dealership

Yes. If you had to buy only where there was local service then most companies would be out of business. For example Sony has 4 warranty centers in the country, that ain't local service.

While that may be true, you can't send a car to the service center using Priority mail.

 

[Heebie Jeebie]

Re: Should all cars sold in the United States be forced to do so through a dealership

While that may be true, you can't send a car to the service center using Priority mail.

You don't send a 72" flat screen that way either.

 

[Mason66]

Re: Should all cars sold in the United States be forced to do so through a dealership

You don't send a 72" flat screen that way either.

SO how do people get service on a 72" flat screen if there is no local service in their area?

 

[Heebie Jeebie]

Re: Should all cars sold in the United States be forced to do so through a dealership

SO how do people get service on a 72" flat screen if there is no local service in their area?

Good question. But they are allowed to buy it, unlike a car.

 

[radcen]

Re: Should all cars sold in the United States be forced to do so through a dealership

While that may be true, you can't send a car to the service center using Priority mail.

There are vehicle shipping companies all over the country. Might not be viable for a Kia owner, but I'd bet that most Tesla buyers could afford it.

Also, manufacturers could, if they so chose, contract with service companies in a similar way that many extended warranties do. Have the vehicle serviced/repaired at a local privately owned facility and paid for by the manufacturer or the manufacturer's insurance company.

 

[Dittohead not!]

Re: Should all cars sold in the United States be forced to do so through a dealership

I wonder just where you do take a Tessla for service and repair? Beyond brakes and tires, which have to be similar to other vehicles, working on them must be outside the experience of most auto technicians.

 

[Heebie Jeebie]

Re: Should all cars sold in the United States be forced to do so through a dealership

I wonder just where you do take a Tessla for service and repair? Beyond brakes and tires, which have to be similar to other vehicles, working on them must be outside the experience of most auto technicians.

Maybe they send someone to you?

 

[Dittohead not!]

Re: Should all cars sold in the United States be forced to do so through a dealership

Maybe they send someone to you?

Maybe.
That sounds like a pretty inefficient way to do it. Why not send that expert to train other technicians, so that there are people who actually know how to work on your car?

 

[Heebie Jeebie]

Re: Should all cars sold in the United States be forced to do so through a dealership

Maybe.
That sounds like a pretty inefficient way to do it. Why not send that expert to train other technicians, so that there are people who actually know how to work on your car?

Depends on how intensive the training is. It may not be practical training 100's of mechanics all over the place when there aren't a lot of vehicles to be worked on. You could send a mechanic to diagnose the problem and they could either fix it or arrange for shipment somewhere to be fixed. A lot of companies do that. Back in the days of the printing press I knew a guy who did that full time, he made great money doing it even if he did live out of a suitcase. He would fly to the customers facility, diagnose the problem and have parts sent in to repair the problem. Sometime the parts included extra labor!

 

[Dittohead not!]

Re: Should all cars sold in the United States be forced to do so through a dealership

Depends on how intensive the training is. It may not be practical training 100's of mechanics all over the place when there aren't a lot of vehicles to be worked on. You could send a mechanic to diagnose the problem and they could either fix it or arrange for shipment somewhere to be fixed. A lot of companies do that. Back in the days of the printing press I knew a guy who did that full time, he made great money doing it even if he did live out of a suitcase. He would fly to the customers facility, diagnose the problem and have parts sent in to repair the problem. Sometime the parts included extra labor!

Sounds like a good job for someone who likes to travel.
It also sounds like any vehicle that doesn't have local, factory trained mechanics will be extremely expensive to work on.

 

[Heebie Jeebie]

Re: Should all cars sold in the United States be forced to do so through a dealership

Sounds like a good job for someone who likes to travel.
It also sounds like any vehicle that doesn't have local, factory trained mechanics will be extremely expensive to work on.

It's like the old saying, if you are worried about the price of gas you can't afford a Rolls Royce! It also depends on how reliable the car is. If they don't fail then you don't need a lot of warranty guys eh?

 

[thinkforyoursel]

Re: Should all cars sold in the United States be forced to do so through a dealership

I heard about this and at the time three question came to mind:

1) Why didn't we see this long ago

2) Why aren't the right wing and tea party irate over this? Isn't this what free-market is all about?

3) I understand the people getting paid by the right defend this attempt to stifle competition. But the right wingers on this board aren't getting paid ....so why are they not irate over this?

This is exactly why people should reject the phony economic theories from the right. Imagine if Obama was trying this ....anybody think there wouldn't be outrage and anger ginned up on Fox news?