Should a person have the right* to know if they're on the "no fly" list?

[jet57]

Should a person have the right* to know if they're on the "no fly" list?

In other words, should an individual be able to call or somehow submit a request to find out if they're on the list and have it answered honestly? (And in a timely manner, of course.)

The questions regards the list in general, not specifically or limited to the current debate relating to guns, etc.

*- Or, legal ability, if you want to quibble over the word "right".

Absolutely. The government should be charged with notifying anybody placed on that list.

 

[Patrickt]

I think the government should post the lists of "No-Fly" folks so that A) they can challenge the ban if they wish, and B) I'll know if Harry who drives our car pool is on the No-Fly list.

 

[matchlight]

Did the government hinder these people from going about their daily business simply because they were on said list?

I am presuming you are not speaking of Japanese internment, btw.

Robert Oppenheimer was one of the people on the custodial detention list, included because he and his wife were both members of the Communist Party USA in the early 1940's. The FBI knew that from intercepted phone conversations between CPUSA officials in Oakland, in which they discussed the need to keep mum about his party membership because of the secret defense work he was then starting. Didn't ever seem to hinder his movements or his work on the Manhattan Project. Whether he was ever disloyal is unknown. It was necessary to accept the risk of that during the war, when his help in developing the atomic bomb was so important. But years after the war, when the Soviet Union had become our enemy, the Eisenhower administration finally decided Oppenheimer should no longer hold a job that gave him access to the most secret information related to nuclear weapons.

I fully support the Japanese internment. Thousands of those people had not clearly stated their loyalty to this country, even though they were living here. Being a citizen of both Japan and the U.S. when the two nations were at war obviously cast doubt on their loyalty. So did the "Niihau Incident," in which a Japanese couple living on a remote Hawaiian plantation island took up arms to help the escape of a pilot who had crash-landed there on Dec. 7 after attacking Pearl Harbor. One of the Hawaiians killed the pilot with a knife as he was waving his pistol around threatening people, and the husband who had thrown in with him then turned his shotgun on himself.

 

[celticwar17]

They should have the right to publicly access the information, Not for them to necessarily come tell you directly.

 

[Cephus]

They do have a right. Try to get on a plane. If they don't let you, you know you're on the list. What you're asking is should people be informed that they are and I don't know that it matters. Do we honestly need more people working for the government calling people on the phone to tell them that they're on the list? Most of those people already know.

 

[Crovax]

So driving is a privilege; flying on a plane is a privilege; taking a boat, bus, or train is a privilege; buying a pair of shoes, a motorcycle, or a bike is a privilege.... I guess if you want to exercise your right to travel in this country from, say, Los Angeles to New York you'd better have a solid set of gams or be handy with tools so you can make yourself a covered wagon.

Run Forest run

 

[Crovax]

It is a definite downside. But I am saying the government shouldn't greatly inconvenience law abiding citizens in the name of security either. A little inconvenience might be justifiable, but as we have said before, missing a flight can be more than just a little inconvenience.

But how many on the list are false positives? 1%? That's 1,000 people. A thousand people "greatly inconvenienced" in a country of 330 million, not too bad of a trade off. Since even if they could call and find out they were on the no fly list they wouldn't be able to get off of it in time to make the flight anyways.

 

[Ahlevah]

Run Forest run

Okay, so there's no right to "fly on a plane," as you say. I can't go to Delta, for example, and demand that they fly me to Jamaica. I agree with that. But remember that the Constitution was never meant to enumerate all of the rights citizens possess. One of the most fundamental rights there is is freedom of movement, and I would think that any broad governmental action to restrict that would require due process.

 

[Grand Mal]

Should a person have the right* to know if they're on the "no fly" list?

In other words, should an individual be able to call or somehow submit a request to find out if they're on the list and have it answered honestly? (And in a timely manner, of course.)

The questions regards the list in general, not specifically or limited to the current debate relating to guns, etc.

*- Or, legal ability, if you want to quibble over the word "right".

Dumb question.
Yes, of course. Why on earth should it be a secret?

 

[Kal'Stang]

Should a person have the right* to know if they're on the "no fly" list?

In other words, should an individual be able to call or somehow submit a request to find out if they're on the list and have it answered honestly? (And in a timely manner, of course.)

The questions regards the list in general, not specifically or limited to the current debate relating to guns, etc.

*- Or, legal ability, if you want to quibble over the word "right".

If they're American Citizens yes. All info that the government has on individuals should always be allowed to be accessed by those individuals. I once thought that that was the way it actually happened in real life. Then I grew up and found out the truth. Frankly I was surprised and disgusted by it.

 

[Dittohead not!]

Okay, so there's no right to "fly on a plane," as you say. I can't go to Delta, for example, and demand that they fly me to Jamaica. I agree with that. But remember that the Constitution was never meant to enumerate all of the rights citizens possess. One of the most fundamental rights there is is freedom of movement, and I would think that any broad governmental action to restrict that would require due process.

The founding fathers could not possibly have foreseen any need for a "no fly" list. Everyone was on a no fly list at that time. They did write in the Declaration, "...among these rights..." and not "...here's a list of all of the rights...."

 

[Deuce]

The founding fathers could not possibly have foreseen any need for a "no fly" list. Everyone was on a no fly list at that time. They did write in the Declaration, "...among these rights..." and not "...here's a list of all of the rights...."

Also:

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

 

[apdst]

Of course.
and the right to challenge it.
and the right to sue if it's based on false information.

I have a better idea: let's protect their civil rights and not put them on a no fly list.

 

[apdst]

The founding fathers could not possibly have foreseen any need for a "no fly" list. Everyone was on a no fly list at that time. They did write in the Declaration, "...among these rights..." and not "...here's a list of all of the rights...."

The Founders obviously envisioned some clowns showing up at some point who wanted to convict people without a trial.

 

[Dittohead not!]

The Founders obviously envisioned some clowns showing up at some point who wanted to convict people without a trial.

That, they did, and they tried to protect us from those clowns.
Then, came the no fly list, indefinite detention without trial, and the right to kill, all in the name of the "war on terror."

 

[imagep]

try to board a plane
you'll find out

That's how I found out. Sucks being pulled out of line by airport security.

 

[imagep]

It can cost an innocent person their job, or a new job, or a serious financial opportunity, if they get caught up in that web.

Or cause them to miss their flight, being stuck in a foreign airport til the next flight, which may not be anytime soon.

 

[_Sal]

Part of preventing criminal activity is ensuring the potential criminal knows you are aware of them and their activities

 

[imagep]

But how many on the list are false positives? 1%? That's 1,000 people. A thousand people "greatly inconvenienced" in a country of 330 million, not too bad of a trade off. Since even if they could call and find out they were on the no fly list they wouldn't be able to get off of it in time to make the flight anyways.

Generally when someone is wrongly identified as being on the no fly list, the matter is cleared up in less than half an hour. It can take longer, but they are getting better at it.

 

[earthworm]

try to board a plane
you'll find out

That is a hell of a way to treat an individual .. .. maybe the or one root cause of why we are hated so by Islam .

 

[Deuce]

That is a hell of a way to treat an individual .. .. maybe the or one root cause of why we are hated so by Islam .

We aren't hated by Islam. The Quran doesn't mention the United States.

We are hated by people who are upset that we've been ****ing around in what they perceive to be their turf for decades.

 

[Goshin]

Should a person have the right* to know if they're on the "no fly" list?

In other words, should an individual be able to call or somehow submit a request to find out if they're on the list and have it answered honestly? (And in a timely manner, of course.)

The questions regards the list in general, not specifically or limited to the current debate relating to guns, etc.

*- Or, legal ability, if you want to quibble over the word "right".

You didn't have an option for "HELL yes, this is America not the USSR dammit!!!"

 

[MACS-24]

Should a person have the right* to know if they're on the "no fly" list?

In other words, should an individual be able to call or somehow submit a request to find out if they're on the list and have it answered honestly? (And in a timely manner, of course.)

The questions regards the list in general, not specifically or limited to the current debate relating to guns, etc.

*- Or, legal ability, if you want to quibble over the word "right".

Haven't voted but as laid out in OP would have to say can't decide:
Because, If the person is a USA citizen then they should not even be on any list without due process. Then with due process they would know.

 

[justabubba]

Haven't voted but as laid out in OP would have to say can't decide:
Because, If the person is a USA citizen then they should not even be on any list without due process. Then with due process they would know.

but we impose travel restrictions on others who have not been adjudged
a suspect, awaiting trial, is often required to surrender their passport. sometimes there is a travel restriction imposed within the borders of the USA
while a suspect, that person has not been found guilty of whatever law has been violated
and yet we deprive that person of the freedom of movement
how is the no fly restriction any different than the travel restrictions that have been in use

 

[MACS-24]

but we impose travel restrictions on others who have not been adjudged
a suspect, awaiting trial, is often required to surrender their passport. sometimes there is a travel restriction imposed within the borders of the USA
while a suspect, that person has not been found guilty of whatever law has been violated
and yet we deprive that person of the freedom of movement
how is the no fly restriction any different than the travel restrictions that have been in use

Sorry, I cannot take this post seriously.

The similarities are as close as Earth is to Pluto.