Shop that sold Newtown massacre guns had its license revoked

[apdst]

Looks like an overreaching and out of control government in action.  If the ATF had leagal grounds to revoke LaGuercia's license, then they shouldn't have a problem saying why they did it.  Right?<BR><BR>

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) has pulled the firearms license from a gun store in East Windsor, Connecticut, that sold the gun used in the Newton, Connecticut massacre that killed 26 people, including 20 children, at Sandy Hook Elementary School...

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/04/05/shop-that-sold-newtown-massacre-guns-had-its-license-revoked/

 

[ttwtt78640]

Looks like an overreaching and out of control government in action.* If the ATF had leagal grounds to revoke LaGuercia's license, then they shouldn't have a problem saying why they did it.* Right?<BR><BR>

If the owner had any logical reason to defend keeping that license he would be screaming out why as well. There is simply nothing to go on presented in the OP link, or its source link, to make a decision one way or the other. Perhaps it was simply shoddy record keeping, thus both were OK with the decision. ATF for (correctly) saying that the owner failed to do the paperwork "properly" and the owner deciding it is more bother (to do ATF required paperwork) than it is worth to him in gun sales profits.

As long as no criminal charges are involved, what difference does it make to anyone else? Business licenses are removed all of the time, sometimes we are told why and other times we are not. Until some facts are presented (on either "side") it is a non-story.

 

[zhak]

Store that sold gun used in Sandy Hook shooting loses license - CNN.com

 

[apdst]

If the owner had any logical reason to defend keeping that license he would be screaming out why as well. There is simply nothing to go on presented in the OP link, or its source link, to make a decision one way or the other. Perhaps it was simply shoddy record keeping, thus both were OK with the decision. ATF for (correctly) saying that the owner failed to do the paperwork "properly" and the owner deciding it is more bother (to do ATF required paperwork) than it is worth to him in gun sales profits.

As long as no criminal charges are involved, what difference does it make to anyone else? Business licenses are removed all of the time, sometimes we are told why and other times we are not. Until some facts are presented (on either "side") it is a non-story.

Funny that they didn't go after him until AFTER the Sandy Hook shooting. Eh?

 

[Arbo]

If it was bad record keeping, then it's a very odd coincidence that they pulled the license 6 days after the shooting. To me that sounds more like about the amount of time it would take them to figure out where the guns came from.

More info needed of course, but the ATF's record of abuse is considerable.

 

[Fisher]

If it was bad record keeping, then it's a very odd coincidence that they pulled the license 6 days after the shooting. To me that sounds more like about the amount of time it would take them to figure out where the guns came from.

More info needed of course, but the ATF's record of abuse is considerable.

well they probably went looking for the records and found the violations though the guns were purchased 2 years prior to the shooting and the store had a horrible record keeping per local police cited in the CNN article linked above.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Funny that they didn't go after him until AFTER the Sandy Hook shooting. Eh?

That is probably part of all "high profile" shooting investigations, to determine the pedigree of the gun(s) used. I still suspect that a record keeping "lapse" is the cause for the license revokation. There are about 2,500 BATFE field agents and about 264,000 FFL dealers, thus it is doubtfull that they are monitored at all "without cause".

 

[MaggieD]

Store that sold gun used in Sandy Hook shooting loses license - CNN.com

According to police, on December 15 -- a day after the Sandy Hook shooting -- a man was arrested at Riverview Gun Sales for stealing a .50-caliber firearm. Upon investigation, authorities learned the man allegedly stole a Wyndham firearm from the same shop four days earlier; in fact, he'd been arrested in June 2011 for allegedly stealing nine firearms from the store.

Afterward, authorities told Riverview Gun Sales' owner David LaGuercia of the December arrest and checked surveillance images. LaGuercia was not aware multiple thefts had taken place.

"The owner is nonchalant. He is a very non-caring gun owner, very lax in his paperwork," said Carl, the East Windsor detective. "He was eventually closed for hundreds and hundreds of federal and state law violations."

Sounds like what should have happened actually happened. When you aren't aware that a couple (or more) guns have been stolen from your store? You don't deserve to be in business.

 

[Arbo]

well they probably went looking for the records and found the violations though the guns were purchased 2 years prior to the shooting and the store had a horrible record keeping per local police cited in the CNN article linked above.

A spokesman said 'probably'? That is meaningless. They shut down a pawn shop an hour away from here for 'bad record keeping', and they said in the press that was what it was for. If that's the reason, they state it, not hint around the corners. And the 'bad record keeping' of the one up the road was literally about 30-40 applications where they put 'CO' instead of 'Colorado' and other minor details. Was all in the news, admitted by the ATF.

Unless they come out with full details, the shutdown in the OP is a bit sketchy.

 

[Fisher]

A spokesman said 'probably'? That is meaningless. They shut down a pawn shop an hour away from here for 'bad record keeping', and they said in the press that was what it was for. If that's the reason, they state it, not hint around the corners. And the 'bad record keeping' of the one up the road was literally about 30-40 applications where they put 'CO' instead of 'Colorado' and other minor details. Was all in the news, admitted by the ATF.

Unless they come out with full details, the shutdown in the OP is a bit sketchy.

Did you read the CNN article. It is pretty clear this was the issue. "Probably" is my opinion of how they came into looking at the shop. Kind of like the IRS, it doesn't matter how wrong you are doing things, it isn't until they look at you in an audit that they notice and then they nail you to the cross and audit you year after year after year.

 

[Arbo]

Did you read the CNN article.

Yes. It is still a lot of 'this person said' stuff. Just because one is an LEO, doesn't give them 100% credibility in my book. Even more so seeing how many have stood for oppression of citizens in various ways. They are human after all and just as prone to bias and agenda.

 

[Surtr]

If the owner had any logical reason to defend keeping that license he would be screaming out why as well. There is simply nothing to go on presented in the OP link, or its source link, to make a decision one way or the other. Perhaps it was simply shoddy record keeping, thus both were OK with the decision. ATF for (correctly) saying that the owner failed to do the paperwork "properly" and the owner deciding it is more bother (to do ATF required paperwork) than it is worth to him in gun sales profits.

As long as no criminal charges are involved, what difference does it make to anyone else? Business licenses are removed all of the time, sometimes we are told why and other times we are not. Until some facts are presented (on either "side") it is a non-story.

And for using your brain, instead of declaring "omfg, evil government we should rampage", you will now be regarded as a gun banner by certain members for the duration of the thread.

 

[Pilot]

Sounds like what should have happened actually happened. When you aren't aware that a couple (or more) guns have been stolen from your store? You don't deserve to be in business.

Missing multiple guns and lax on the paper work? That doesn't seem like an honest mistake. Looks more like he had a "side business" going on.

 

[ttwtt78640]

And for using your brain, instead of declaring "omfg, evil government we should rampage", you will now be regarded as a gun banner by certain members for the duration of the thread.

Not if they have read my other posts on the matter, or have even see my profile page picture.

I have owned guns for four decades.

 

[BMCM]

Yes. It is still a lot of 'this person said' stuff. Just because one is an LEO, doesn't give them 100% credibility in my book. Even more so seeing how many have stood for oppression of citizens in various ways. They are human after all and just as prone to bias and agenda.

Maybe they are investigating other things that went on at this store and can't talk about it yet.

 

[apdst]

That is probably part of all "high profile" shooting investigations, to determine the pedigree of the gun(s) used. I still suspect that a record keeping "lapse" is the cause for the license revokation. There are about 2,500 BATFE field agents and about 264,000 FFL dealers, thus it is doubtfull that they are monitored at all "without cause".

But, we still don't KNOW. If ATF had a legit reason, they shouldn't have a problem saying what that is.

 

[ttwtt78640]

But, we still don't KNOW. If ATF had a legit reason, they shouldn't have a problem saying what that is.

Have you read the CNN article posted in #3 above? It seems to back up my hunch quite well.

 

[Surtr]

Not if they have read my other posts on the matter, or have even see my profile page picture.

That doesn't matter, you disagree with the extremes of the pro gun side in a sensationalist thread and boom, you're magically a gun banning lefty.

I have owned guns for four decades.

To quote one of the folks here when I said the same thing "sure you are". lol. Folks get mad.

 

[ttwtt78640]

That doesn't matter, you disagree with the extremes of the pro gun side in a sensationalist thread and boom, you're magically a gun banning lefty.


To quote one of the folks here when I said the same thing "sure you are". lol. Folks get mad.

I disaggree with many extremes, yet also despise compromise when no federal gov't action at all is usually the best "solution". To err is simply human, to really mess things up requires a federal gov't program.

 

[apdst]

Have you read the CNN article posted in #3 above? It seems to back up my hunch quite well.

But, it's still just a hunch. If you're correct, then why doesn't ATF say why they revoked the guy's license? Simple enough. Yes?

 

[Surtr]

I disaggree with many extremes, yet also despise compromise when no federal gov't action at all is usually the best "solution". To err is simply human, to really mess things up requires a federal gov't program.

Same here, if it isn't going to do anything, and is borne of ignorance, there's no way I'm going to support it.

As for these crazy borderline conspiracy theories, and the rants of how DHS and the rest of the government is going to go door to door to confiscate all of our guns, I call bull****. Because I, and some others don't jump on the bandwagon with others, the extremists automatically assume that said person is anti gun, regardless of prior posts. The conditioning is strong in them.

 

[Pilot]

But, it's still just a hunch. If you're correct, then why doesn't ATF say why they revoked the guy's license? Simple enough. Yes?

There was only one instance where an ATF spokeswoman declined to comment. It's hardly a conspiracy. Why don't you file a FOIA Request?

 

[apdst]

There was only one instance where an ATF spokeswoman declined to comment. It's hardly a conspiracy. Why don't you file a FOIA Request?

How about we loosen the regulations on gun stores that require them to register the guns wer purchase?

 

[Pilot]

How about we loosen the regulations on gun stores that require them to register the guns wer purchase?

Well, if you insist on changing the topic...

I agree with you on the registration, but it is still a serious issue for a FFL to have no idea that several guns have been stolen. IMO, not noticing that is reason enough to have your license pulled.

 

[apdst]

Well, if you insist on changing the topic...

I agree with you on the registration, but it is still a serious issue for a FFL to have no idea that several guns have been stolen. IMO, not noticing that is reason enough to have your license pulled.

The guy didn't know that several guns had been stolen? Or, he didn't report them?