Shocking video of children in Philadelphia Muslim Society: 'We will chop off their heads' for Allah

[dixon01767]

My apologies for using the incredibly complex and intellectually obscure "If A, then B." formulation which you appear never to have encountered before.

I was referring to your use of quotation marks around

..."convert the heathen by death".....

Which isnt an "If A, then B." formulation. And even if it was, you wouldn't put quotation marks around them unless you were quoting the formulation from another source. I'll interpret your silence and your dodge to be a resounding answer of yes

Citing specific passages (as well as providing links to the source for those passages) is generally considered to be much more intellectually effective in convincing other people that what you say in rebuttal should be accepted that merely saying "nonsense".

Why don't you try it?

I alread have. You should probably stick to fabricating quotes.

They are Islamic views, written in the Koran and Hadiths, followed by many muslims.

[2.191] And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.

[2.193] And fight with them until there is no persecution, and religion should be only for Allah...

2.216] Fighting is enjoined on you, and h is an object of dislike to you; and it may be that you dislike a thing while it is good for you, and it may be that you love a thing while it is evil for you, and Allah knows, while you do not know.

[2.244] And fight in the way of Allah,...

[2.246] ...May it not be that you would not fight if fighting is ordained for you? They said: And what reason have we that we should not fight in the way of Allah, and we have indeed been compelled to abandon our homes and our children. But when fighting was ordained for them, they turned back, except a few of them, and Allah knows the unjust.

[3.151] We will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve, because they set up with Allah that for which He has sent down no authority, and their abode is the fire, and evil is the abode of the unjust.

[3.169] And reckon not those who are killed in Allah's way as dead; nay, they are alive (and) are provided sustenance from their Lord;

[4.74] Therefore let those fight in the way of Allah, who sell this world's life for the hereafter; and whoever fights in the way of Allah, then be he slain or be he victorious, We shall grant him a mighty reward.

[4.76] Those who believe fight in the way of Allah, and those who disbelieve fight in the way of the Shaitan. Fight therefore against the friends of the Shaitan; surely the strategy of the Shaitan is weak.

[9.5] So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

[9.29] Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.

[9.111] Surely Allah has bought of the believers their persons and their property for this, that they shall have the garden; they fight in Allah's way, so they slay and are slain;

[9.123] O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil).

[47.4] So when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them,

 

[dixon01767]

Because their violence is in spite of their Christianity, in contrast to Islamic terrorists who act in accordance with their Islamic faith.

"We shall not rest until we raise the flag of Islam over the White House.....Today, in every country we look at worldwide, we see that the love of martyrdom is spreading like wildfire every day",; Ali Shirazi, Supreme Leader Ali Khameneis representative on the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps

"It is the nature of Islam to dominate, not to be dominated, to impose its laws on all nations and extend its power to the entire planet."
Hassan al-Banna founder of the Muslim Brotherhood

Hamas Charter
The Islamic Resistance Movement is one of the wings of the Muslim

Brothers in Palestine. The Muslim Brotherhood Movement is a world

organization, the largest Islamic Movement in the modern era. It is

characterized by a profound understanding, by precise notions and by a

complete comprehensiveness of all concepts of Islam in all domains of

life: views and beliefs, politics and economics, education and society,

jurisprudence and rule, indoctrination and teaching, the arts and

publications, the hidden and the evident, and all the other domains of life.

Number 25:
Narrated Abu Huraira:

Allah's Apostle was asked, "What is the best deed?" He replied, "To believe in Allah and His Apostle (Muhammad). The questioner then asked, "What is the next (in goodness)? He replied, "To participate in Jihad (religious fighting) in Allah's Cause."

............................

 

[dixon01767]

So I guess that you are now interpreting my statement as a resounding answer of NO.

PS - Isn't it strange that you interpreted my "silence" AFTER I had responded?

Nope, my post at

Today, 09:27 AM

would be before you responded at .

Today, 09:30 AM

Perhaps you were not aware that the forum displays the posts in the order they were received so everyone can see how full of it you are.

 

[ataraxia]

Certainly not a problem with todays islamic terrorists who have 1300 years of Islams 1387 years of history of context of Islamic Caliphates applying Islamic doctrine as law and the faithful willing to wage jihad against the unbelievers to establish, expand and defend the empire. Sunnis call the first 4 caliphates as "Rightly guided" and to be emmulated. First action of the first caliphate was to wage the wars of apostasy against their fellow Muslims who stopped paying tribute to Mecca when Muhammad died. Within 80 years of his death they were waging violent Jihad in Spain to the West and Afghanistan to the East to expand the empire.

If you want to look at sheer volume, though, it doesn't hold a candle to Christian war efforts, colonialism and imperialism, exploitation of slavery, attempts at mass conversion of natives, etc... all that started to go away in the west only as the influence of Christianity began to wane after the European enlightenment.

IOW, the west's more tolerant and less violent views are not because of Christianity, but because of secularization and enlightenment. Of course now those are all under siege even here in the west- and not by Muslims or foreigners, but by Christians.

 

[dixon01767]

If you want to look at sheer volume, though, it doesn't hold a candle to Christian war efforts,......

Irrelevant to my point in that those Christian efforts were in spite of the Christian Doctrine while the Islamic Fundamentalist efforts are according to their doctrine. Back in the 90s we had a guy name David Koresh, leader of the Branch Davidians who claimed to be Christians. David preached that he was Jesus Christ and therefore he was the only man at the compound who could have sex with the other mens wives and young girls who lived at the compound. I dont blame Christianity because David Koresh just made that **** up.

colonialism and imperialism, exploitation of slavery, attempts at mass conversion of natives, etc... all that started to go away in the west only as the influence of Christianity began to wane after the European enlightenment.

The enlightenment, more specifically the Protestant reformation used the text of the bible to demonstrate the illigitimacy of the divine rule of the Catholic Church. Thomas Pain used christian doctrine to demonstrate the iligitimacy of the divine rule of Monarchs ordained by the church and to demonstrate the legitimacy of government, of, by and for the people in his widely published in Colonial America Pamphlett, "Common Sense". John Locke was one of the authors of the enlightenment, who wrote "The Reasonableness of Christianity"

Sayiid Qutb was one of the leading Islamic scholars. Frequently cited by members of the Muslim Brotherhood, the largest political group in the islamic world who wrote-

Islam is not merely a belief, so that it is enough merely to preach it. Islam, which is a way of life, takes practical steps to organize a movement for freeing man. Other societies do not give it any opportunity to organize its followers according to its own method, and hence it is the duty of Islam to annihilate all such systems, as they are obstacles in the way of universal freedom. ...
This religion is really a universal declaration of the freedom of man from servitude to other men and from servitude to his own desires, which is also a form of human servitude; it is a declaration that sovereignty belongs to God alone and that He is the Lord of all the worlds. It means a challenge to all kinds and forms of systems which are based on the concept of the sovereignty of man; in other words, where man has usurped the Divine attribute. Any system in which the final decisions are referred to human beings, and in which the sources of all authority are human, deifies human beings by designating others than God as lords over men.
This declaration means that the usurped authority of God be returned to Him and the usurpers be thrown out-those who by themselves devise laws for others to follow, thus elevating themselves to the status of lords and reducing others to the status of slaves. In short, to proclaim the authority and sovereignty of God means to eliminate all human kingship and to announce the rule of the Sustainer of the universe over the entire earth. ...
After annihilating the tyrannical force, whether it be in a political or a racial form, or in the form of class distinctions within the same race, Islam establishes a new social, economic and political system, in which the concept of the freedom of man is applied in practice
Sayyid Qutb

Or Maqdisi,

Their fascination was arisen after the defenders of democracy and the
defenders of other such false ideologies (who have no religion) defended democracy simply for the sake of it, and they mixed the falsehood with the Truth.
..... They distort the Truth with Falsehood, and mix the Light with the Darkness, and the Polytheism of democracy with the Monotheism of Islam. But we, with the help of Allah, replied to all of these fallacies, and showed that democracy is a religion. But it is not Allah’s religion. It is not the religion of monotheism, and its parliamentary councils are just places of polytheism, and safe havens for paganistic beliefs. All of these must be avoided to achieve monotheism, which is Allah’s right upon His servants. We must destroy those who follow democracy, and we must take their followers as enemies - hate them and wage a great Jihad against them.
Abu Muhammad 'Aasim al-Maqdisi


religions are virtually polar opposites of each other.

Number 25:Narrated Abu Huraira:
Allah's Apostle was asked, "What is the best deed?" He replied, "To believe in Allah and His Apostle (Muhammad). The questioner then asked, "What is the next (in goodness)? He replied, "To participate in Jihad (religious fighting) in Allah's Cause."

...36"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" 37Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.

 

[ataraxia]

Irrelevant to my point in that those Christian efforts were in spite of the Christian Doctrine while the Islamic Fundamentalist efforts are according to their doctrine.

According to you. Because that's what you like to believe, so you are now "properly interpreting" Christian scripture, skipping over or explaining away stuff you don't like, and cherry picking stuff you do, to have it come out supporting your most current beliefs and values. That has been done by Christians from Mother Teresa to the KKK. Why do you think you are the one who finally has it right?

Look at these God-fearing Christians using the same text as you to justify human chattel slavery.

"[Slavery] was established by decree of Almighty God...it is sanctioned in the Bible, in both Testaments, from Genesis to Revelation...it has existed in all ages, has been found among the people of the highest civilization, and in nations of the highest proficiency in the arts." Jefferson Davis, President of the Confederate States of America, 1861

"There is not one verse in the Bible inhibiting slavery, but many regulating it. It is not then, we conclude, immoral." Rev. Alexander Campbell

"The right of holding slaves is clearly established in the Holy Scriptures, both by precept and example." Rev. R. Furman, D.D., Baptist, of South Carolina

Thomas Pain used christian doctrine to demonstrate the iligitimacy of the divine rule of Monarchs ordained by the church and to demonstrate the legitimacy of government, of, by and for the people in his widely published in Colonial America Pamphlett, "Common Sense".

Wait, are you talking about THIS Thomas Paine?

“Of all the systems of religion that ever were invented, there is no more derogatory, more unedifying to man, more repugnant to reason, and more contradictory to itself than this thing called Christianity. Too absurd for belief, too impossible to convince, and too inconsistent for practice, it renders the heart torpid or produces only atheists or fanatics. As an engine of power, it serves the purpose of despotism, and as a means of wealth, the avarice of priests, but so far as respects the good of man in general it leads to nothing here or hereafter.”
-Thomas Paine

"All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian, or Turkish (Muslim), appear to me no other than human inventions set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit.”
― Thomas Paine

Or perhaps you were thinking of these enlightenment age thinkers:

"During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity, in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution... In some instances they have been seen to erect a spiritual tyranny on the ruins of the Civil authority; in many instances they have been seen upholding the thrones of political tyranny: in no instance have they been seen the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wished to subvert the public liberty, may have found an established Clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just Government instituted to secure & perpetuate it needs them not."
-James Madison

“But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legends have been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed?”
– John Adams, letter to FA Van der Kamp, December 27, 1816.

"They [the Christian clergy] believe that any portion of power confided to me, will be exerted in opposition to their schemes. And they believe rightly; for I have sworn upon the altar of god, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. But this is all they have to fear from me: and enough, too, in their opinion."

-Thomas Jefferson to Dr. Benjamin Rush, Sept. 23, 1800

Reformation and "protestant enlightenment", indeed.

 

[ataraxia]

Number 25:Narrated Abu Huraira:
Allah's Apostle was asked, "What is the best deed?" He replied, "To believe in Allah and His Apostle (Muhammad). The questioner then asked, "What is the next (in goodness)? He replied, "To participate in Jihad (religious fighting) in Allah's Cause."

...36"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" 37Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.

Regarding the first quote, you do know, I am sure, that many non-violent and more progressive Muslims "interpret" the word Jihad to mean "spiritual war", as in conquering your lusts, greed, and materialistic urges to become a more spiritual person and closer to God?

See It's all in how you interpret it.

And as far as "Christian love" second quote above, check out this Christian pastor talking about how he uses "Christian love" to talk about a sharia-style takeover of American secular government, with the ultimate ambition of taking over the world:

"Christians have an obligation, a mandate, a commission, a holy responsibility to reclaim the land for Jesus Christ-to have dominion in the civil structures, just as in every other aspect of life and godliness.

But it is dominion that we are after. Not just a voice.

It is dominion we are after. Not just influence.

It is dominion we are after. Not just equal time.

It is dominion we are after.

World conquest. That’s what Christ has commissioned us to accomplish. We must win the world with the power of the Gospel. And we must never settle for anything less.

If Jesus Christ is indeed Lord, as the Bible says, and if our commission is to bring the land into subjection to His Lordship, as the Bible says, then all our activities, all our witnessing, all our preaching, all our craftsmanship, all our stewardship, and all our political action will aim at nothing short of that sacred purpose.

Thus, Christian politics has as its primary intent the conquest of the land – of men, families, institutions, bureaucracies, courts, and governments for the Kingdom of Christ. It is to reinstitute the authority of God’s Word as supreme over all judgments, over all legislation, over all declarations, constitutions, and confederations."

-George Grant, Coral Ridge Ministries

I mean, man! Talk about narcissism!

So like I said, it's all in how you interpret it. Religion and religious scripture are like those Rorschach tests psychologists use to figure out what's in their patient's head. There's nothing those ink blot patterns are really "supposed" to be. They are just randomly generated. But what people tell you they are is just a reflection of what's in their head. Religion is just a mirror, or a window, not a guide. Religious people just think that because they look in that mirror and see a picture of their own latest opinions which they like so much, everyone else is supposed to see the same thing when they look. They don't. Hence all the religious warfare.

Look, I don't want to look like I am praising Islam and bashing Christianity. As an agnostic with an atheist bent, I don't have a dog in that fight. I just don't like such rank hypocrisy and fear/hate-mongering. Surely we can agree that's not very Christian.

 

[ataraxia]

Religion is just a mirror of people's latest opinions and ideas, not a guide:

"Intellectually, religious emotions are not creative but conservative. They attach themselves readily to the current view of the world and consecrate it. They steep and dye intellectual fabrics in the seething vat of emotions; they do not form their warp and woof. There is not, I think, an instance of any large idea about the world being independently generated by religion. "
-John Dewey

 

[dixon01767]

According to you.

??? No, according to those Islamic fundamentalist who wage violent jihad, according to Qutb and Maqdisi the scholars I quoted and according to me who can read all the verses in the koran calling for the believers to "fight", "kill', "slay' and "smite the necks" of the unbelievers "until.... religion should only be for Allah"

Because that's what you like to believe, so you are now "properly interpreting" Christian scripture, skipping over or explaining away stuff you don't like, and cherry picking stuff you do, to have it come out supporting your most current beliefs and values.

No, I simply don't ignore the new testament. A plain literal interpretation leads to the conclusion that Christian doctrine doesn't require stoning adulterers to death because the old testament says so.

 

[dixon01767]

Regarding the first quote, you do know, I am sure, that many non-violent and more progressive Muslims "interpret" the word Jihad to mean "spiritual war",.

Yes. But I can read the first 23 of 52 uses of the term Jihad in the Bukhari Hadiths to see that it involves fighting holy battles, reward, or booty (if he survives) or will be admitted to Paradise (if he is killed in the battle as a martyr), armor, horses and conquest.

Volume 1, Book 2, Number 25:
Allah's Apostle was asked, "What is the best deed?" He replied, "To believe in Allah and His Apostle (Muhammad). The questioner then asked, "What is the next (in goodness)? He replied, "To participate in Jihad (religious fighting) in Allah's Cause."

Volume 1, Book 2, Number 25:
The Prophet said, "The person who participates in (Holy battles) in Allah's cause and nothing compels him to do so except belief in Allah and His Apostles, will be recompensed by Allah either with a reward, or booty (if he survives) or will be admitted to Paradise (if he is killed in the battle as a martyr). Had I not found it difficult for my followers, then I would not remain behind any sariya going for Jihad and I would have loved to be martyred in Allah's cause and then made alive, and then martyred and then made alive, and then again martyred in His cause."

Volume 1, Book 10, Number 505:
I asked the Prophet "Which deed is the dearest to Allah?" He replied, "To offer the prayers at their early stated fixed times." I asked, "What is the next (in goodness)?" He replied, "To be good and dutiful to your parents" I again asked, "What is the next (in goodness)?" He replied, 'To participate in Jihad (religious fighting) in Allah's cause."

 

[dixon01767]

Volume 2, Book 15, Number 86:
The Prophet said, "No good deeds done on other days are superior to those done on these (first ten days of Dhul Hijja)." Then some companions of the Prophet said, "Not even Jihad?" He replied, "Not even Jihad, except that of a man who does it by putting himself and his property in danger (for Allah's sake) and does not return with any of those things."

Volume 2, Book 24, Number 547:
Allah's Apostle (p.b.u.h) ordered (a person) to collect Zakat, and that person returned and told him that Ibn Jamil, Khalid bin Al-Walid, and Abbas bin 'Abdul Muttalib had refused to give Zakat." The Prophet said, "What made Ibn Jamll refuse to give Zakat though he was a poor man, and was made wealthy by Allah and His Apostle ? But you are unfair in asking Zakat from Khalid as he is keeping his armor for Allah's Cause (for Jihad).

Volume 2, Book 26, Number 594:
The Prophet was asked, "Which is the best deed?" He said, "To believe in Allah and His Apostle." He was then asked, "Which is the next (in goodness)?" He said, "To participate in Jihad in Allah's Cause."

Volume 3, Book 29, Number 84:
I said, "O Allah's Apostle! Shouldn't we participate in Holy battles and Jihad along with you?" He replied, "The best and the most superior Jihad (for women) is Hajj which is accepted by Allah.

Volume 3, Book 31, Number 121:
...So, whoever was amongst the people who used to offer their prayers, will be called from the gate of the prayer; and whoever was amongst the people who used to participate in Jihad, will be called from the gate of Jihad;

Volume 3, Book 46, Number 724:
Allah's Apostle said, "A pious slave gets a double reward." Abu Huraira added: By Him in Whose Hands my soul is but for Jihad (i.e. holy battles),

Volume 4, Book 51, Number 33:
When 'Umar got a piece of land in Khaibar, he came to the Prophet saying, "I have got a piece of land, better than which I have never got. So what do you advise me regarding it?" The Prophet said, "If you wish you can keep it as an endowment to be used for charitable purposes." So, 'Umar gave the land in charity (i.e. as an endowments on the condition that the land would neither be sold nor given as a present, nor bequeathed, (and its yield) would be used for the poor, the kinsmen, the emancipation of slaves, Jihad, and for guests and travelers; and its administrator could eat in a reasonable just manner, and he also could feed his friends without intending to be wealthy by its means."

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 41:
I asked Allah's Apostle, "O Allah's Apostle! What is the best deed?" He replied, "To offer the prayers at their early stated fixed times." I asked, "What is next in goodness?" He replied, "To be good and dutiful to your parents." I further asked, what is next in goodness?" He replied, "To participate in Jihad in Allah's Cause." I did not ask Allah's Apostle anymore and if I had asked him more, he would have told me more.

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 42:
Allah's Apostle said, "There is no Hijra (i.e. migration) (from Mecca to Medina) after the Conquest (of Mecca), but Jihad and good intention remain; and if you are called (by the Muslim ruler) for fighting, go forth immediately.

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 43:
(That she said), "O Allah's Apostle! We consider Jihad as the best deed. Should we not fight in Allah's Cause?" He said, "The best Jihad (for women) is Hajj-Mabrur (i.e. Hajj which is done according to the Prophet's tradition and is accepted by Allah)."

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 44:
A man came to Allah's Apostle and said, "Instruct me as to such a deed as equals Jihad (in reward)." He replied, "I do not find such a deed." Then he added, "Can you, while the Muslim fighter is in the battle-field, enter your mosque to perform prayers without cease and fast and never break your fast?" The man said, "But who can do that?" Abu- Huraira added, "The Mujahid (i.e. Muslim fighter) is rewarded even for the footsteps of his horse while it wanders bout (for grazing) tied in a long rope."

 

[dixon01767]

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 56:
,,,Later on it happened that she went out in the company of her husband 'Ubada bin As-Samit who went for Jihad and it was the first time the Muslims undertook a naval expedition led by Mu awiya.
Volume 4, Book 52, Number 79:
On the day of the Conquest (of Mecca) the Prophet said, "There is no emigration after the Conquest but Jihad and intentions. When you are called (by the Muslim ruler) for fighting, go forth immediately." (See Hadith No. 42)
Volume 4, Book 52, Number 81:
In the life-time of the Prophet, Abu Talha did not fast because of the Jihad, but after the Prophet died I never saw him without fasting except on 'Id-ul-Fitr and 'Id-ul-Aclha.
Volume 4, Book 52, Number 85:
....He told us that Zaid bin Thabit had told him that Allah's Apostle had dictated to him the Divine Verse:
"Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and those who strive hard and fight in the Cause of Allah with their wealth and lives.' (4.95)
Zaid said, "Ibn-Maktum came to the Prophet while he was dictating to me that very Verse. On that Ibn Um Maktum said, "O Allah's Apostle! If I had power, I would surely take part in Jihad."
Volume 4, Book 52, Number 87:
Allah's Apostle went towards the Khandaq (i.e. Trench) and saw the Emigrants and the Ansar digging in a very cold morning as they did not have slaves to do that for them. When he noticed their fatigue and hunger he said, "O Allah! The real life is that of the Here-after, (so please) forgive the Ansar and the Emigrants." In its reply the Emigrants and the Ansar said, "We are those who have given a pledge of allegiance to Muhammad that we will carry on Jihad as long as we live."
Volume 4, Book 52, Number 88:
The Emigrants and the Ansar started digging the trench around Medina carrying the earth on their backs and saying, "We are those who have given a pledge of allegiance to Muhammad that we will I carry on Jihad as long as we live."
Volume 4, Book 52, Number 104:
The Prophet said, "Good will remain (as a permanent quality) in the foreheads of horses (for Jihad) till the Day of Resurrection, for they bring about either a reward (in the Hereafter) or booty (in this world."
Volume 4, Book 52, Number 112:
The one for whom they are a source of reward, is he who keeps a horse for Allah's Cause (i.e. Jihad)

For a Sunni male of fighting age Jihad means holy war.

 

[dixon01767]

And as far as "Christian love" second quote above, check out this Christian pastor talking about how he uses "Christian love" to talk about a sharia-style takeover of American secular government, with the ultimate ambition of taking over the world:.

Notice how he doesn't quote the bible. And I can to show hes making the stuff up. .

13 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.

"My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jewish leaders. But now my kingdom is from another place."

Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and unto God the things that are God's.

Christianity doesn't even concern itself with governance and the laws to be applied. Whereas 1300 years of Islams 1387 years of existence was characterized by an Islamic Caliphate applying Islamic doctrine as law. Muhammad waged war and within his life expanded the Islamic empire from one town on the Arabian Peninsula to the entire Peninsula. First action of the first Caliphate following Muhammads death was to wage the wars of apostasy against their fellow Muslims who stopped paying Zakat to Mecca when Muhammad died. Within 80 years of his death they were waging violent Jihad in Spain to the West and Afghanistan to the East to further expand the rule of Islam.

You can look at the first 300 years of Christianity and the religion encircled the Mediterranean sea, opposed every step of the way by the governing authorities, spread simply by the word of mouth. As the bible instructs. Christians are supposed to emulate Jesus. Muslims are supposed to emulate Muhammad. The first four Caliphates are regarded by the Sunnis as the rightly guided Caliphates that are to be emulated today. Alqaeda and Isis used the same methods called for in the written Islamic doctrine of the koran and hadiths.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

I was referring to your use of quotation marks around


Which isnt an "If A, then B." formulation. And even if it was, you wouldn't put quotation marks around them unless you were quoting the formulation from another source. I'll interpret your silence and your dodge to be a resounding answer of yes

You can interpret anything you want in any manner you want to interpret it.

I'll stick with the level of English vocabulary, grammar, and punctuation which was taught when I graduated from High School (1961) and as modified by more than 10 years of post-secondary education.

I alread have.

Really? The only ones of your cites that does not refer to "Allah" are the first and last ones.

The first cite refers to "unbelievers" and that refers to the "idolators" that do not believe in YWHW/Abba/Allah. You do know what YWHW/Abba/Allah refers to, don't you?

Lumping all of the rest except for the last into one, they refer to "Allah" and that is the same "Allah" as you find in YWHW/Abba/Allah. You do know what YWHW/Abba/Allah refers to, don't you?

As for the last one, see my first comment regarding "unbelievers".

You should probably stick to fabricating quotes.

Nah, I'll stick to using the same level of ordinary English that I use every day and actually knowing what I am talking about.

 

[dixon01767]

According to you. Because that's what you like to believe, so you are now "properly interpreting" Christian scripture, skipping over or explaining away stuff you don't like, and cherry picking stuff you do, to have it come out supporting your most current beliefs and values. That has been done by Christians from Mother Teresa to the KKK. Why do you think you are the one who finally has it right?

Nope, just the one using a literal interpretation. I dont blame christian doctrine for tortured and twisted interpretsations of those doctrines.

Wait, are you talking about THIS Thomas Paine?.

Yeah, even a likely atheist can use the Christian doctrine to demonstrate the legitimacy of government of, by and for the people.

 

[dixon01767]

You can interpret anything you want in any manner you want to interpret it.

I'll stick with the level of English vocabulary, grammar, and punctuation which was taught when I graduated from High School (1961) and as modified by more than 10 years of post-secondary education..

English vocabulary didnt teach you to fabricate quotes or place quotation marks around statements you just made up.

 

[JustHanging]

he one for whom they are a source of reward, is he who keeps a horse for Allah's Cause (i.e. Jihad)

For a Sunni male of fighting age Jihad means holy war.

And as I've pointed out over and over again Christian loonies, like Muslim loonies, can use their holy book to support their violent behavior towards others.

Deuteronomy 13:7-12
If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst.

Deuteronomy 17:2-5
Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death.


And of course, according to Jesus, the OT laws still apply:

Matthew 5:18: "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled"


I know you don't agree with Jesus, so why not finally answer the question you keep dodging? Was Jesus lying when he said this? Was Jesus confused when he said this? Or?????

 

[JustHanging]

Religion is just a mirror of people's latest opinions and ideas, not a guide:

Exactly.

They ignore what they don't like, and say an imaginary magical being OKed their behavior when it's something they like.

For example, dixon01767 excuses everything in the OT because it doesn't fit his narrative of Muslims bad, Christians good.


And when I quote Jesus directly stating that the OT laws still apply:

Matthew 5:18: "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled"


He runs off to other chapters, and sections, making excuses for the bible. So I ask if Jesus was lying that day, or confused, or ???? and he keeps dodging, over and over and over, refusing to answer.

 

[dixon01767]

And as I've pointed out over and over again Christian loonies, like Muslim loonies, can use their holy book to support their violent behavior towards others.

Deuteronomy 13:7-12............

Christians have the New Testament. But thats precisely why you go to the old.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

English vocabulary didnt teach you to fabricate quotes or place quotation marks around statements you just made up.

I'd suggest that you look up the actual uses of "quotation marks", but it would be a waste of time because I doubt that you'd ever believe that they are used for anything other than indicating direct transliterations of actual statements.

 

[JustHanging]

Christians have the New Testament. But thats precisely why you go to the old.

Oh quit being so ridiculous, nobody is buying your nonsense. Christians still believe in the OT, the Ten Commandments are a good example.


Let's see if this time you will behave in an honourable fashion and finally answer th question you keep dodging: Was Jesus lying, or just confused when he said:

Matthew 5:18: "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled"


It seems you can't come up with a believable excuse, you've certainly had enough time and opportunities.

 

[JustHanging]

I'd suggest that you look up the actual uses of "quotation marks", but it would be a waste of time because I doubt that you'd ever believe that they are used for anything other than indicating direct transliterations of actual statements.

He's got nothing but weak sauce excuses. He refuses to answer direct questions.

 

[dixon01767]

Oh quit being so ridiculous, nobody is buying your nonsense. Christians still believe in the OT, the Ten Commandments are a good example.


Let's see if this time you will behave in an honourable fashion and finally answer th question you keep dodging: Was Jesus lying, or just confused when he said:

Matthew 5:18: "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled"

He was accurate, the Jews still follow the old testament because "only in Christ is it taken away".

 

[Thorgasm]

Jesus wept.

 

[dixon01767]

I'd suggest that you look up the actual uses of "quotation marks", but it would be a waste of time because I doubt that you'd ever believe that they are used for anything other than indicating direct transliterations of actual statements.

He's got nothing but weak sauce excuses. He refuses to answer direct questions.

Curmudg is making this **** up as he goes along.

Using Quotation Marks // Purdue Writing Lab
Quotation Marks: When to Use Double or Single Quotation Marks | Scribendi
How to Use Quotation Marks
Quotation marks – Grammarist