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Shocking News! CBO Confirms That the AHCA Is Still a Garbage Dump of Bad Ideas

Vern

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"The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office reported Wednesday that the Obamacare repeal bill, which Republican House leaders successfully rushed through a vote earlier this month after several major revisions before the CBO could score their impact, would leave 23 million additional Americans without health insurance by 2026. This is a slight improvement over the previous edition of the legislation, which would have left 24 million more individuals uncovered. The updated legislation would also cut $834 billion from Medicaid and hand out tax cuts worth $661 billion, largely to upper-income households and corporations. If made law, the bill would still be absolute hell for aging, lower-middle-class workers. The report says a 64-year-old earning $26,500 would have to pay $13,600 for a health plan under the AHCA, up from $1,700 under Obamacare."

The CBO says 23 million fewer Americans will have insurance under the AHCA

Once I recovered from the shock I realized that republicans are simply not going to admit they've been lying about Obamacare the last 7 years. I think conservatives need to start writing their reps and senators and tell them "I know you lied but its okay, I forgive you but please address healthcare as if you haven't lied the last 7 years." then maybe they would try to address health care in the country in an honest and realistic manner.
 
"The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office reported Wednesday that the Obamacare repeal bill, which Republican House leaders successfully rushed through a vote earlier this month after several major revisions before the CBO could score their impact, would leave 23 million additional Americans without health insurance by 2026. This is a slight improvement over the previous edition of the legislation, which would have left 24 million more individuals uncovered. The updated legislation would also cut $834 billion from Medicaid and hand out tax cuts worth $661 billion, largely to upper-income households and corporations. If made law, the bill would still be absolute hell for aging, lower-middle-class workers. The report says a 64-year-old earning $26,500 would have to pay $13,600 for a health plan under the AHCA, up from $1,700 under Obamacare."

The CBO says 23 million fewer Americans will have insurance under the AHCA

Once I recovered from the shock I realized that republicans are simply not going to admit they've been lying about Obamacare the last 7 years. I think conservatives need to start writing their reps and senators and tell them "I know you lied but its okay, I forgive you but please address healthcare as if you haven't lied the last 7 years." then maybe they would try to address health care in the country in an honest and realistic manner.

This bill reduces coverage, reduces patient protections, and makes it harder for Americans to get insurance. It's a crock of ****. The way it was crafted, the patient and average American wasn't the centerpiece. No one had a vision for making healthcare better and more affordable for Americans. It was crafted by vote-grabbing, and picking and choosing this or that, based on politician's votes, rather than merit for America. It's a horrible bill.
 
Let me ask everyone a real question. Do Americans want low priced health care or do we want quality healthcare? I think Democrats promised everyone would have great healthcare. They created a plan such that everyone would have insurance, but good luck finding a doctor. Democrats also over-promised the amount of savings to health care people would receive. A savings which most Americans haven't come close to realizing. The Republicans created a plan to improve quality of care and reduce costs; everyone with insurance will have access to quality doctors, most people will pay less, but fewer people will be covered (as noted above, people in the margins, about 5% of all Americnas who are in the exchange system and getting coverage from medicare will be negatively impacted). In other words, both parties over-promised and refused to properly divulge the trade-offs of their plans. Both parties are trying (or succeeded) to ram through legislation on a straight party line vote. The truth is that no plan will make Americans happy because the expectations are simply unrealistic and no politician from either party is being truthful.
 
Let me ask everyone a real question. Do Americans want low priced health care or do we want quality healthcare? I think Democrats promised everyone would have great healthcare. They created a plan such that everyone would have insurance, but good luck finding a doctor. Democrats also over-promised the amount of savings to health care people would receive. A savings which most Americans haven't come close to realizing. The Republicans created a plan to improve quality of care and reduce costs; everyone with insurance will have access to quality doctors, most people will pay less, but fewer people will be covered (as noted above, people in the margins, about 5% of all Americnas who are in the exchange system and getting coverage from medicare will be negatively impacted). In other words, both parties over-promised and refused to properly divulge the trade-offs of their plans. Both parties are trying (or succeeded) to ram through legislation on a straight party line vote. The truth is that no plan will make Americans happy because the expectations are simply unrealistic and no politician from either party is being truthful.

Your thread is nothing but a ´both sides did it´narrative and of course you have to resort to dishonest conservative narratives to do it. Over 20 million gained health care coverage because of Obamacare. it increased the quality of care and lowered the déficit. lets ignore the false ´find a doctor´and ´where´s my 2500´narratives, please explain how the republican plan ´improves the quality of care´. i see how the medicaid cuts reduce costs but im not seeing the ´improved quality of care´you completely imagined. And before you reply, remember you were told and obediently believed there were ´death panels´. So your sources of information are not the most reliable.
 
"The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office reported Wednesday that the Obamacare repeal bill, which Republican House leaders successfully rushed through a vote earlier this month after several major revisions before the CBO could score their impact, would leave 23 million additional Americans without health insurance by 2026. This is a slight improvement over the previous edition of the legislation, which would have left 24 million more individuals uncovered. The updated legislation would also cut $834 billion from Medicaid and hand out tax cuts worth $661 billion, largely to upper-income households and corporations. If made law, the bill would still be absolute hell for aging, lower-middle-class workers. The report says a 64-year-old earning $26,500 would have to pay $13,600 for a health plan under the AHCA, up from $1,700 under Obamacare."

The CBO says 23 million fewer Americans will have insurance under the AHCA

Once I recovered from the shock I realized that republicans are simply not going to admit they've been lying about Obamacare the last 7 years. I think conservatives need to start writing their reps and senators and tell them "I know you lied but its okay, I forgive you but please address healthcare as if you haven't lied the last 7 years." then maybe they would try to address health care in the country in an honest and realistic manner.

Hmmm...

Seems like everyone is lying about the healthcare plan they endorse.

Lies in Washington...

Go figure.

Maybe we'd do better with the subsidized state healthcare designed by the various states to address their particular needs.

Indiana uses the Healthy Indiana Plan.

If each state designs and implements a plan that addresses the needs of their residents, then we will have 50 programs addressing the issue producing 50 solutions to similar issues.

Seems like a pretty good way to compare coverages, satisfaction, cost and benefits.

Either of the monstrosities contrived by the Feds are a boondoggle judging by the criticism generated.
 
"The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office reported Wednesday that the Obamacare repeal bill, which Republican House leaders successfully rushed through a vote earlier this month after several major revisions before the CBO could score their impact, would leave 23 million additional Americans without health insurance by 2026. This is a slight improvement over the previous edition of the legislation, which would have left 24 million more individuals uncovered. The updated legislation would also cut $834 billion from Medicaid and hand out tax cuts worth $661 billion, largely to upper-income households and corporations. If made law, the bill would still be absolute hell for aging, lower-middle-class workers. The report says a 64-year-old earning $26,500 would have to pay $13,600 for a health plan under the AHCA, up from $1,700 under Obamacare."

The CBO says 23 million fewer Americans will have insurance under the AHCA

Once I recovered from the shock I realized that republicans are simply not going to admit they've been lying about Obamacare the last 7 years. I think conservatives need to start writing their reps and senators and tell them "I know you lied but its okay, I forgive you but please address healthcare as if you haven't lied the last 7 years." then maybe they would try to address health care in the country in an honest and realistic manner.

Okay, first off, I'm no fan of the AHCA. But could you please list for us the instances in which the CBO accurately predicted ANYTHING. G'head.
 

Holy ****ing spinmeisters Batman. From your own article.
It’s true (as Trump administration officials have repeatedly pointed out) that CBO greatly overestimated the number who would get government-subsidized coverage through the new insurance exchanges.

6a00e55188b4c088330168e8c6938b970c-pi
 
Maybe we'd do better with the subsidized state healthcare designed by the various states to address their particular needs.

Indiana uses the Healthy Indiana Plan.

If each state designs and implements a plan that addresses the needs of their residents, then we will have 50 programs addressing the issue producing 50 solutions to similar issues.

That's called Medicaid. It already exists in every state with local tailoring of its design and structure.

The GOP proposes to slash $800 billion out of it.
 
Hmmm...

Seems like everyone is lying about the healthcare plan they endorse.

Lies in Washington...

Go figure.

Maybe we'd do better with the subsidized state healthcare designed by the various states to address their particular needs.

Indiana uses the Healthy Indiana Plan.

If each state designs and implements a plan that addresses the needs of their residents, then we will have 50 programs addressing the issue producing 50 solutions to similar issues.

Seems like a pretty good way to compare coverages, satisfaction, cost and benefits.

Either of the monstrosities contrived by the Feds are a boondoggle judging by the criticism generated.

Your level the playing field and place it (all?) at the state level idea ignores the fact that federal law prohibits or at least heavily discourages doing that. States can't fix federal tax breaks for employer provided (subsidized) plans, extremely shoddy tax treatment of individual medical care expenses (only that exceeding 10% of AGI is deductible), EMTALA or Medicare/Medicaid payment rates. We must remember that the individual medical care insurance market is only a tiny fraction of the big picture yet gets the lion's share of attention.

Step one is to treat all employer provided "fringe" benefits as taxable income to the employee and to allow the employee to deduct all medical care spending from their AGI. That alone gives the federal government more needed tax revenue and the people (most of them are employees) a real interest in the costs of their own medical care.
 
That's called Medicaid. It already exists in every state with local tailoring of its design and structure.

The GOP proposes to slash $800 billion out of it.

HIP seems to act differently than Obamacare.
 
Your thread is nothing but a ´both sides did it´narrative and of course you have to resort to dishonest conservative narratives to do it. Over 20 million gained health care coverage because of Obamacare. it increased the quality of care and lowered the déficit. lets ignore the false ´find a doctor´and ´where´s my 2500´narratives, please explain how the republican plan ´improves the quality of care´. i see how the medicaid cuts reduce costs but im not seeing the ´improved quality of care´you completely imagined. And before you reply, remember you were told and obediently believed there were ´death panels´. So your sources of information are not the most reliable.

1. Where are you getting that i accepted the existence of death panels?
2. I find it funny that you accuse me of bias when you seem unable to accept that the aha is flawed and was an over promise by democrats.
 
Your level the playing field and place it (all?) at the state level idea ignores the fact that federal law prohibits or at least heavily discourages doing that. States can't fix federal tax breaks for employer provided (subsidized) plans, extremely shoddy tax treatment of individual medical care expenses (only that exceeding 10% of AGI is deductible), EMTALA or Medicare/Medicaid payment rates. We must remember that the individual medical care insurance market is only a tiny fraction of the big picture yet gets the lion's share of attention.

Step one is to treat all employer provided "fringe" benefits as taxable income to the employee and to allow the employee to deduct all medical care spending from their AGI. That alone gives the federal government more needed tax revenue and the people (most of them are employees) a real interest in the costs of their own medical care.

I would like to see the elimination of the tax right off for employer provided employee health insurance. That and the absence of the mandate for employers to provide health insurance will throw ever more people into the individual marketplace. The individual market will become ever larger and people will feel the pain of this atrocious Repub health care plan if it passes. It seems that voters must feel the pain personally and acutely to vote in their own best interest.
 
Okay, first off, I'm no fan of the AHCA. But could you please list for us the instances in which the CBO accurately predicted ANYTHING. G'head.

so CB, your ´tactic´is to pretend that the CBO is overestimating the number who would lose insurance. Or is it to pretend a 64 year old wont have to pay 13,000 a year? Your post is a little vague and tired. And obedient. Heres the thing about your obedient vague and tired narrative, the CBO is the source of record for these estimates. You dont even have a counter estimate. You simply whined about the CBO. Your conservative masters appreciate your obedience but it adds nothng to the discussion.
 
1. Where are you getting that i accepted the existence of death panels?
2. I find it funny that you accuse me of bias when you seem unable to accept that the aha is flawed and was an over promise by democrats.

so you dont believe in death panels? If you knew the conservative media was lying to you, why would you still believe anything they tell you? And ib, repeating false conservative narratives does not prove anything about Obamacare. If you can focus for just a minute, in your own words, please explain how the republican plan ´improves the quality of care´. thanks in advance
 
so you dont believe in death panels? If you knew the conservative media was lying to you, why would you still believe anything they tell you? And ib, repeating false conservative narratives does not prove anything about Obamacare. If you can focus for just a minute, in your own words, please explain how the republican plan ´improves the quality of care´. thanks in advance

Let me throw it back. Didn't the Democrats lie about the AHA both before and after it was passed? So, when the Democrats tell you the Republican plan is bad, why would you believe them? This is not really a valid argument. You are merely making an ad hom attack. If you disagree with an argument I've made, then address it directly, not under some Conservative media guise as though you know me or what I believe.

Under the current implementation of the AHA, as insurance companies are pulling out of the exchanges, where will people get insured? As fewer doctors except insurance from the exchanges, where will these insured people find medical care?

Access Denied
“There are certain aspects of Medicaid, particularly for low-income populations, where it is really almost superior to private [insurance] coverage, with very low copays and no deductibles,” says Stephen Zuckerman, co-director and senior fellow with the Urban Institute’s Health Policy Center. “But at the same time, Medicaid beneficiaries are significantly more likely to report having difficulty finding a provider or delaying care because their health care coverage isn’t widely accepted.”

The truth and simple fact is that the AHA does not fix this problem outside of the temporary and now defunded subsidy program for medicaid disbursements. The AHA wanted to give health care to all, but Obama and friends were not honest about the costs.

I think it is useful, and fair, to remember that Republican plans will be much more free-market-centric. The goal simply isn't the same if Republicans are being honest (and they aren't). They want to lower costs and increase quality. As a result, the quantity side must decrease. Fewer people, particularly sick people, must be insured so costs can be decreased without negatively impacting overall care or, hopefully, improving care. If doctors are reimbursed properly for all/most patients, then I think it is fair to believe that patient care will improve. It is far-fetched to believe that doctors will treat patients who are a net loss equally to patients which earn them a profit. By nearly all accounts, medicaid patients are net-losses for primary care providers.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapo...lth-outcomes-vs-being-uninsured/#604307326043
"And just what did the Oregon study show in 2011, at the one-year mark? Actually it did find that people on Medicaid felt better about their health and their financial situations, in a subjective survey of enrollees conducted by the authors. But the study showed no difference in health outcomes, such as HbA1c or high cholesterol or mortality. These important details were lost on those who hyped the study as proof that Obamacare’s Medicaid expansion was the right thing to do."
 
so CB, your ´tactic´is to pretend that the CBO is overestimating the number who would lose insurance. Or is it to pretend a 64 year old wont have to pay 13,000 a year? Your post is a little vague and tired. And obedient. Heres the thing about your obedient vague and tired narrative, the CBO is the source of record for these estimates. You dont even have a counter estimate. You simply whined about the CBO. Your conservative masters appreciate your obedience but it adds nothng to the discussion.

I realize it is difficult to impossible for a lib to fathom there are actually people who don't use "tactics" for every discussion. I also realize it is difficult to impossible for a lib to absorb those things called, "FACTS". Sorry, can't help you there.

Please show me where exactly in the CBO report is states anyone will "lose" insurance. G'head. Actual quotes only.
 
HIP seems to act differently than Obamacare.

And yet it's a Medicaid expansion under Obamacare. It's always interesting to me when someone points to something that already exists under current law to make a point about what ought to be allowed to exist.
 
Let me throw it back. Didn't the Democrats lie about the AHA both before and after it was passed? So, when the Democrats tell you the Republican plan is bad, why would you believe them? This is not really a valid argument. You are merely making an ad hom attack.

ib, you made a claim and I asked you to explain it. see how you desperately avoid addressing it. thats called ´dodging´. Their are two things wrong with your current dodge. the democrats didnt lie to me and the CBO told us it was bad. Its the title of thread.

If you disagree with an argument I've made, then address it directly, not under some Conservative media guise as though you know me or what I believe.

this is kinda funny. I cant address your argument about how the republican plan will improve healthcare because you wont tell us. I keep asking and you keep dodging. And pointing out that death panels was lie was to help you make better choices in what you believe. your welcome.
 
I realize it is difficult to impossible for a lib to fathom there are actually people who don't use "tactics" for every discussion. I also realize it is difficult to impossible for a lib to absorb those things called, "FACTS". Sorry, can't help you there.

er uh CB, you´ve posted no facts. You whined about the CBO´s accuracy. Your conservative masters appreciate your obedience but whining about the CBO doesnt help the conversation.
 
.

Please show me where exactly in the CBO report is states anyone will "lose" insurance. G'head. Actual quotes only.

CBO and JCT estimate that, in 2018, 14 million more people would be uninsured under
H.R. 1628 than under current law. The increase in the number of uninsured people
relative to the number projected under current law would reach 19 million in 2020 and
23 million in 2026. In 2026, an estimated 51 million people under age 65 would be
uninsured, compared with 28 million who would lack insurance that year under current
law. Under the legislation, a few million of those people would use tax credits to
purchase policies that would not cover major medical risks.

https://www.cbo.gov/system/files/115th-congress-2017-2018/costestimate/hr1628aspassed.pdf

I await your obedient ´word games´.
 
ib, you made a claim and I asked you to explain it. see how you desperately avoid addressing it. thats called ´dodging´. Their are two things wrong with your current dodge. the democrats didnt lie to me and the CBO told us it was bad. Its the title of thread.



this is kinda funny. I cant address your argument about how the republican plan will improve healthcare because you wont tell us. I keep asking and you keep dodging. And pointing out that death panels was lie was to help you make better choices in what you believe. your welcome.
Funny as you clearly didn't read my post which added support to my claims.

You should notice i clearly acknowledged both parties lied about their legislation. So, you can stop repeating your taking points as though i am some GOP appologist.
 
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