Sherman Burning Atlanta

[Jack Hays]

 

[apdst]

Seeing as the Civil War seems to be a point of interest for many around here, what do y'all think about Sherman's decision to burn Atlanta?

Personally, I think it was the right move. Leaving a major enemy stronghold intact behind him as he continued his campaign would have been stupid. Not to mention the fact that he was able to march through the heart of the south and rip it out dealt a devastating blow to Confederate morale on top of the conventional blow.

Sherman destroyed war materials. Destroying the enemy's ability to wage war is the objective of any military campaign.

 

[apdst]

:lamo

The war was about slavery. That, and money.

The war was about slavery, if you look at the period with a narrow point of view.

 

[Tigerace117]

The war was about slavery, if you look at the period with a narrow point of view.

Ah, but it was a big part of the war even if you don't.

 

[apdst]

Ah, but it was a big part of the war even if you don't.

Again, it depends how narrow your view is.

The lost causers believe the war has nothing to do with slavery. The sore winners believe the war has everything to do with slavery. Two narrowminded viewpoints from opposite ends of the spectrum. Both are bred from ignorance and a lack objectivity.

 

[Tigerace117]

Again, it depends how narrow your view is.

The lost causers believe the war has nothing to do with slavery. The sore winners believe the war has everything to do with slavery. Two narrowminded viewpoints from opposite ends of the spectrum. Both are bred from ignorance and a lack objectivity.

The point is, the war certainly wasn't based on "fighting industrialists".

 

[Jack Hays]

Again, it depends how narrow your view is.

The lost causers believe the war has nothing to do with slavery. The sore winners believe the war has everything to do with slavery. Two narrowminded viewpoints from opposite ends of the spectrum. Both are bred from ignorance and a lack objectivity.

A case can be made for other, lesser causes, but slavery was the primary cause, and by a wide margin. Slavery was the only factor potent enough to cause war. The secession crisis of 1832, in which slavery was not central, was resolved without war.

 

[Μολὼν λαβέ]

"War Is Hell."
William Tecumseh Sherman

It absolutely was hell. No antibiotics, no anesthesia and yankee carpetbaggers who took as much advantage of southerners as they possibly could.

 

[Μολὼν λαβέ]

A case can be made for other, lesser causes, but slavery was the primary cause, and by a wide margin. Slavery was the only factor potent enough to cause war. The secession crisis of 1832, in which slavery was not central, was resolved without war.

Apparently, you couldn't be more wrong.

Top Five Causes of the Civil War
Leading up to Secession and the Civil War

1. Economic and social differences between the North and the South.

2. States versus federal rights.

3. The fight between Slave and Non-Slave State Proponents.

4. Growth of the Abolition Movement.

5. The election of Abraham Lincoln.

What Caused the Civil War?

 

[Jack Hays]

Apparently, you couldn't be more wrong.



What Caused the Civil War?

The tip-off is use of the term "War Between the States." That is a southern sympathizer usage.

 

[Μολὼν λαβέ]

The tip-off is use of the term "War Between the States." That is a southern sympathizer usage.

The reality is there were multiple reasons for the American civil war, not just slavery. Denial is an easy out.
Or, as they say in the south, "look away"...

 

[Sherman123]

The reality is there were multiple reasons for the American civil war, not just slavery. Denial is an easy out.
Or, as they say in the south, "look away"...

No, not really. It's all slavery. Every ancillary issue can ultimately be traced to slavery. Just look at your list (a self-published article on about.com):

1. Economic and social differences between the North and the South.

What was the root of these economic and social differences? An cash crop economy entrenched and supported by mass chattel slavery.

2. States versus federal rights.

What states rights are we talking about? A states right to protect the institution of slavery.

3. The fight between Slave and Non-Slave State Proponents.

Duh.

4. Growth of the Abolition Movement.

Slavery.

5. The election of Abraham Lincoln.

Why would Lincoln inspire such fear and anger? *whisper* slavery.

 

[Paleocon]

The tip-off is use of the term "War Between the States." That is a southern sympathizer usage.

Ad hominem. What you speculate about their motives is completely irrelevant.

 

[apdst]

A case can be made for other, lesser causes, but slavery was the primary cause, and by a wide margin. Slavery was the only factor potent enough to cause war. The secession crisis of 1832, in which slavery was not central, was resolved without war.

Slavery didn't cause The Civil War. At no time did the Federal government intend to use military force to abolish slavery.

In 1832-33 there was no secession and no attack on Federal troops.

Secession and ultimately the attack on Fort Sumter touched off The Civil War.

It took nearly two years to abolish slavery, after the war ended. Its obvious that the abolition of slavery wasn't the #1 priority.

 

[Jack Hays]

The reality is there were multiple reasons for the American civil war, not just slavery. Denial is an easy out.
Or, as they say in the south, "look away"...

#37 says it all.

 

[Jack Hays]

Ad hominem. What you speculate about their motives is completely irrelevant.

No. Just an observation.

 

[Jack Hays]

Slavery didn't cause The Civil War. At no time did the Federal government intend to use military force to abolish slavery.

In 1832-33 there was no secession and no attack on Federal troops.

Secession and ultimately the attack on Fort Sumter touched off The Civil War.

It took nearly two years to abolish slavery, after the war ended. Its obvious that the abolition of slavery wasn't the #1 priority.

Secession and Ft. Sumter resulted from the South's fear that Lincoln's election presaged abolition. Slavery was abolished during the war. Any continuation of slavery after the war was illegal.

 

[apdst]

Secession and Ft. Sumter resulted from the South's fear that Lincoln's election presaged abolition. Slavery was abolished during the war. Any continuation of slavery after the war was illegal.

Slavery wasn't made illegal, nationally until the 13th Amendment was ratified.

 

[Jack Hays]

Slavery wasn't made illegal, nationally until the 13th Amendment was ratified.

The 13th Amendment to the Constitution declared that "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction." Formally abolishing slavery in the United States, the 13th Amendment was passed by the Congress on January 31, 1865, and ratified by the states on December 6, 1865.

13th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution: Primary ...

https://www.loc.gov/rr/.../bib/.../13thamendment.htm...


Library of Congress


The 13th Amendment to the Constitution declared that "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have ...

 

[apdst]

The 13th Amendment to the Constitution declared that "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction." Formally abolishing slavery in the United States, the 13th Amendment was passed by the Congress on January 31, 1865, and ratified by the states on December 6, 1865.

13th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution: Primary ...

https://www.loc.gov/rr/.../bib/.../13thamendment.htm...


Library of Congress


The 13th Amendment to the Constitution declared that "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have ...

Right. What'd I just say?

That proves that slavery wasn't made illegal by The United States until after the war. Not, during the war.

 

[Jack Hays]

Right. What'd I just say?

That proves that slavery wasn't made illegal by The United States until after the war. Not, during the war.

In your #39 you asserted that abolition took nearly two years after the war. December 1865 ratification was just a few months after Appomattox. And the 13th Amendment was signed and presented to the states in January 1865, when Lee was still in the Petersburg trenches.

 

[apdst]

In your #39 you asserted that abolition took nearly two years after the war. December 1865 ratification was just a few months after Appomattox. And the 13th Amendment was signed and presented to the states in January 1865, when Lee was still in the Petersburg trenches.

I got my math wrong, so what? It wasn't ratified until December of 1865.

 

[Jack Hays]

I got my math wrong, so what? It wasn't ratified until December of 1865.

Ironic. Ratification was slowed by the need to reconstitute southern state governments so they could participate.

 

[apdst]

Ironic. Ratification was slowed by the need to reconstitute southern state governments so they could participate.

It would be ironic, if it were true. Most of the former Confederate States voted ahead of Connecticut and New Hampshire. Iowa and New Jersey didn't ratify until 1866; Kentucky in 1876.

Looking at the ratification dates we don't see unbridled passionate support for abolition in the Northern states.

 

[Jack Hays]

It would be ironic, if it were true. Most of the former Confederate States voted ahead of Connecticut and New Hampshire. Iowa and New Jersey didn't ratify until 1866; Kentucky in 1876.

Looking at the ratification dates we don't see unbridled passionate support for abolition in the Northern states.

With Georgia's assent on 6 December 1865 ratification was achieved via three quarters of the states, including eight which had been in the Confederacy. There was no urgency after that. Mississippi did not ratify until 1995.