• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Sharia law used in the United Arab Emirates to jail gang-raped Australian woman

We don't even know what WE'RE doing half the time, how are we supposed to know what anyone ELSE is doing? :lol:

support dictators and crazy governments and groups that take orders in middle east (no matter what are they or what are they doing).

you can start with supporting Taliban in Afghanistan in mid 70s, Iran last dictator, Saddam hossain in mid 80s and 90s, Saudi Arabia right now, Bahrain, United Arab empire and the lists of USA allies goes on and on with craziest persons and groups in history.
 
Women in much of the Mideast are property, not even enjoying the rights granted animals in the US. In a world with the Koran as a constitution, terrorist regimes and backwards fundamentalism still entrenched, there's nothing wrong with bragging about a transparent justice system based on human, civil, labor and environmental rights.

you mean by middle-east is the countries are the best USA allies right?! like Suadi Arabia, Bahrain, Jordan and ...
 
The issue is not who her rapists were. The issue is that she spent time in prison for being raped. Her rapists could have been asians, arabs, whites, blacks, etc or UAE nationality or other. The article doesn't mention their ethnicity (or maybe I missed it). All we know is that they were her colleagues at the hotel and some got deported (so some were not UAE nationals).

In the UAE there is a massive social hierarchy difference in terms of ethics. 1.UAE Nationals 2.Other Arabs 3.Westerners/Rich people of the lower hierarchies 4. Indians, Blacks and other Asians 5.Pakistani's 6. Filipinos

However gender wise it depends on a) the husband b) the social standing of her and him c) Religion
If the husband is fairly liberal towards women's rights, in general they wear either a hijab or standard western clothing. BUT this is only if they are in the top 3 hierarchies.

The Women for 4 and 5 do not work, they stay at home and look after the children or housekeeping. The Filipinos however have the same attitude as the westerners.
Obviously if the husband is not muslim/hindu women are free to do what they want within their limits and what the state deems acceptable.
The UAE nationals undoubtedly got/will get out of this (not really keeping up with case)
 
In the US, 25% of reported rapes result in an arrest (wiki). There are a variety of reasons for this. Of those resulting in arrest, many are plead and others dropped. Probably less than half go to court. You're looking at an end stat as if there is no attention given to the case unless it goes to court.

So American culture and legal system make it so that the overwhelming majority of rapists will never see a day in jail.

Women in much of the mideast are property, not even enjoying the rights granted animals in the US.
Sensationalist drivel, after all you put animals down when they get sick and kill others for sport.

In a world with the Koran as a constitution, terrorist regimes and backwards fundamentalism still entrenched, there's nothing wrong with bragging about a transparent justice system based on human, civil, labor and environmental rights.
There's a difference between what it is based on or supposed to be based on anyway and how it is in practice. For instance, the United States only fully legalized homosexuality (or struck down sodomy laws) in 2003 with the supreme court ruling going 6 to 3 and as usual Scalia dissenting, but ultimately I agree it is stupid to compare western liberal moral values to the socially conservative moral values in the west or east specially when those conservative moral values are based on ancient religious text.

As I said, in terms of rape against women in the west, the western system that lets the majority of rapists walk is hardly something to be proud about, I think any decent person would agree with that.

Finally I think people blame men too much, women in many cases are just as guilty of holding backward socially conservative moral values;
Muslim Women Don't See Themselves as Oppressed, Survey Finds
 
Lonewolf, what you fail to understand is that rape only goes to court in totalitarian theocratic/monarchist states about .001% of the time.
 
you mean by middle-east is the countries are the best USA allies right?! like Suadi Arabia, Bahrain, Jordan and ...

Of course. Do you think the US should invade everyone at the same time? As long as a country is within their UN agreements and is engaged diplomatically and economically, then other tools in the diplomatic toolbox will be brought to bear in attempt to push development and democracy. We can't go to war against everyone at the same time and we must establish priorities according to individual context.
 
Of course. Do you think the US should invade everyone at the same time? As long as a country is within their UN agreements and is engaged diplomatically and economically, then other tools in the diplomatic toolbox will be brought to bear in attempt to push development and democracy. We can't go to war against everyone at the same time and we must establish priorities according to individual context.

it's not about invading them, it's about support them with money and modernest weapons. they can slaughtered their people and US government can easily close their eyes as they take orders.

almost every hijackers in 9/11 was from Saudi Arabia, of course Bin laden was from Saudi Arabia too. this country is the base for crazy Salafies. the birth of Al-Qaeda. and after 9/11 your Priorities became Iraq?! a country has nothing to do with 9/11 and about human rights wasn't any much more worst that Saudi Arabia. why do you fooling your self about USA foreign policy.
invading has nothing to do with spreading freedom or democracy! it's just a dirty business for politicians and economic elites. at least people should understand it by know.

i suggested this good documentary Why We Fight (2006)
 
Doesn't matter how bad other numbers are, that graph is shameful and there is no ifs or buts about it.

That doesn't excuse the fact that totalitarian theocracy/monarchy/dictatorships report a thousand times less and women are killed for being raped. In Saddam's Iraq, rape was a matter of official government business.
 
invading has nothing to do with spreading freedom or democracy! it's just a dirty business for politicians and economic elites. at least people should understand it by know.

False.
 
That doesn't excuse the fact that totalitarian theocracy/monarchy/dictatorships report a thousand times less and women are killed for being raped. In Saddam's Iraq, rape was a matter of official government business.

I am curious where you got your numbers from?

I wasn't trying to excuse anything, the only one making excuses here is you by trying to justify your apparent view that such a system that lets pretty much most rapists walk free is good or that it is something worthy of being bragged about.
 
support dictators and crazy governments and groups that take orders in middle east (no matter what are they or what are they doing).

you can start with supporting Taliban in Afghanistan in mid 70s, Iran last dictator, Saddam hossain in mid 80s and 90s, Saudi Arabia right now, Bahrain, United Arab empire and the lists of USA allies goes on and on with craziest persons and groups in history.

That's nuts. The ME would be screwed up anyway. Do I think we should EVER align ourselves with questionable groups of people from the ME? Of course not!
 
That's nuts. The ME would be screwed up anyway. Do I think we should EVER align ourselves with questionable groups of people from the ME? Of course not!

they are not Questionable, they are craziest group and governments in the world. they bow to west so they can continue they crazy approach. US already have helped to establishing dozen of terrorrism group who are killing our people like Taliban and Al-Qaeda, Jondolla in Pakistan, mojahedin khalgh and list goes on and on.


not really, if US haven't been supporting these crazy dictators, the people could rise up and established a government the way they did in Iran. the thing could happened in Iraq, but Saddam Hossain, supported by west, use chemical weapons against its people. how could ME people get rid off their dictators when they are fully supported by west and are allowing to do whatever they want. as we are seeing in Bahrain and Saudi Arabia.
 
Last edited:
I never said she was jailed for falsely accusing someone, I was simply wondering about the details of the case and the guys' defence. Though if you go sell your story and accuse people of being rapists I assume you can get sued for slander in the US.
It looks to me like, for some reason, you're shifting the focus of the discussion onto the rapists to avoid addressing the issue of the victim.
Same question as in post #63:
A woman was imprisoned for 8 months after complaining to the police about getting gangraped. Do you or do you not think that this situation warrants condemnation on the part of every civilized human being on the planet?
Yes or no please.

Also, in your previous "answer" to this question you said: "I think the charges brought on ALL Parties are reprehensible". What are you talking about? What charges were brought on the victim? (assuming you were referring to her)
 
It looks to me like, for some reason, you're shifting the focus of the discussion onto the rapists to avoid addressing the issue of the victim.
Same question as in post #63:
A woman was imprisoned for 8 months after complaining to the police about getting gangraped. Do you or do you not think that this situation warrants condemnation on the part of every civilized human being on the planet?
Yes or no please.

Seriously? Its very clear;

Reprehinsible; Deserving censure or condemnation.

Also, in your previous "answer" to this question you said: "I think the charges brought on ALL Parties are reprehensible". What are you talking about? What charges were brought on the victim? (assuming you were referring to her)

The charge that led to her imprisonment obviously, which incidentally happens to be stated right next to the part you quoted... Your attempt to make it seem like I haven't already condemned the system is really weird specially when you go ahead and quote a statement where I do.



Anyway, even though I generally like RDS' posts, I disagree with him when it comes to Sharia and agree with Chris, anyone with common sense should condemn Sharia just as they should condemn Biblical law and any other convoluted and twisted laws that violate human rights.

Also just for the heck of it;

Do you or do you not think that a systems that fails the overwhelming majority of raped women warrants condemnation on the part of every civilized human being on the planet?
 
Seriously? Its very clear;

Reprehinsible; Deserving censure or condemnation.



The charge that led to her imprisonment obviously, which incidentally happens to be stated right next to the part you quoted... Your attempt to make it seem like I haven't already condemned the system is really weird specially when you go ahead and quote a statement where I do.



Anyway, even though I generally like RDS' posts, I disagree with him when it comes to Sharia and agree with Chris, anyone with common sense should condemn Sharia just as they should condemn Biblical law and any other convoluted and twisted laws that violate human rights.

Also just for the heck of it;

Do you or do you not think that a systems that fails the overwhelming majority of raped women warrants condemnation on the part of every civilized human being on the planet?

If you are speaking to the American system, we try our best. I think a lot of times women don't report because of shame, embarrassment, social stigma, and also fear. So you can't blame our "system" necessarily but it is rather how society views women and sex and sexual assault.

We try to help victims of rape here in our country. We have lots of resources, support groups, etc. for women, but it's hard to get people to come forward and report a rape sometimes, especially the very young women or girls. I think it's more socially stigmatizing for them.
 
Seriously? Its very clear;

Reprehinsible; Deserving censure or condemnation.
Well, forgive me, but your statement that: "I think the charges brought on ALL Parties are reprehensible" didn't strike me as criticism of the UAE's justice system. It sounded more like you were criticising the woman and her (alleged) rapists.
My mistake, I guess.

BTW, if you're going to imperiously quote dictionary definitions of a word, at least try to get their spelling right.

The charge that led to her imprisonment obviously, which incidentally happens to be stated right next to the part you quoted...
The charge that led to her imprisonment, which "happens to be stated right next to the part I quoted" is having extra-marital sex. The source of my confusion is that I didn't think you (or any other civilized person, for that matter ) would consider having extra-marital sex to be "reprehensible". Once again, my bad.

Your attempt to make it seem like I haven't already condemned the system is really weird specially when you go ahead and quote a statement where I do.
It sounded like you were saying that while jailing someone for having sex is silly, she was imprisoned for falsely accusing the (alleged) rapists. Once again, my bad.

Anyway, even though I generally like RDS' posts, I disagree with him when it comes to Sharia and agree with Chris, anyone with common sense should condemn Sharia just as they should condemn Biblical law and any other convoluted and twisted laws that violate human rights.
Fair enough.

Also just for the heck of it;

Do you or do you not think that a systems that fails the overwhelming majority of raped women warrants condemnation on the part of every civilized human being on the planet?
While I'm not sure the term "condemnation" is one I'd use, I do think that more needs to be done to bring rapists to justice.
What has this got to do with anything? Are you suggesting that the fact that our justice system needs to be improved has any bearing on how much we need to condemn a "justice" system which actually jails rape victims?!?
 
Well, forgive me, but your statement that: "I think the charges brought on ALL Parties are reprehensible" didn't strike me as criticism of the UAE's justice system. It sounded more like you were criticising the woman and her (alleged) rapists.
My mistake, I guess.

I am sure it doesn't, for the purpose of this strawman anyway.

BTW, if you're going to imperiously quote dictionary definitions of a word, at least try to get their spelling right.

Hey don't "criticise" :lol:. Also "imperiously", really? how many times have I quoted a dictionary for you? once?
Obviously it is not enough as it seems our spelling skills and your comprehension continue to suffer.

The charge that led to her imprisonment, which "happens to be stated right next to the part I quoted" is having extra-marital sex. The source of my confusion is that I didn't think you (or any other civilized person, for that matter ) would consider having extra-marital sex to be "reprehensible". Once again, my bad.

I bet.

It sounded like you were saying that while jailing someone for having sex is silly, she was imprisoned for falsely accusing the (alleged) rapists. Once again, my bad.

Wait I thought you had 'misinterpreted' my condemnation of the the charges brought on the 3 involved to mean condemnation of people having sex and not the fact that its illegal, Where did you bring this "silly" word from I wonder.

I mean you can't play dumb or ignorant now when you have already said this 3 pages earlier:

Nice try, but she wasn't jailed for "falsely" accusing those men, she was jailed for having extra-marital sex, which you yourself just admitted is silly (although I'd use stronger language than that).

With the post directly before it being mine in which I say;

She wasn't convicted of being raped, she was convicted along with the other men of consensual sex and drinking without a licence.

Disingenuous doesn't really suit you.

While I'm not sure the term "condemnation" is one I'd use, I do think that more needs to be done to bring rapists to justice.

I guess there's where we differ, I think any system that fails the victims specially at such a high rate is worthy of condemnation.
 
I am sure it doesn't, for the purpose of this strawman anyway.



Hey don't "criticise" :lol:. Also "imperiously", really? how many times have I quoted a dictionary for you? once?
Obviously it is not enough as it seems our spelling skills and your comprehension continue to suffer.



I bet.



Wait I thought you had 'misinterpreted' my condemnation of the the charges brought on the 3 involved to mean condemnation of people having sex and not the fact that its illegal, Where did you bring this "silly" word from I wonder.

I mean you can't play dumb or ignorant now when you have already said this 3 pages earlier:



With the post directly before it being mine in which I say;



Disingenuous doesn't really suit you.



I guess there's where we differ, I think any system that fails the victims specially at such a high rate is worthy of condemnation.

My apologies, but I'm opting out of this argument.
We're obviously unsuccessful in conveying our meanings (or in expressing them) and this trend just seems to get worse the further along this discussion goes. You're obviously a eloquent and intelligent person and normally I'd relish an argument with you but this is getting ridiculous. I feel like I'm no closer now to understanding what you're actually saying than you seem to be at understanding what I'm saying.

No hard feelings, I hope. :)
 
they are not Questionable, they are craziest group and governments in the world. they bow to west so they can continue they crazy approach. US already have helped to establishing dozen of terrorrism group who are killing our people like Taliban and Al-Qaeda, Jondolla in Pakistan, mojahedin khalgh and list goes on and on.

You believe the US is responsible for the actions of everyone?

how could ME people get rid off their dictators when they are fully supported by west and are allowing to do whatever they want.

Saddam was under heavy sanctions for the violation of 17 Chapter 7 UNSCRs. He had been pushed out of Kuwait. That's hardly "do whatever they want".
 
You believe the US is responsible for the actions of everyone?



Saddam was under heavy sanctions for the violation of 17 Chapter 7 UNSCRs. He had been pushed out of Kuwait. That's hardly "do whatever they want".

Some people actually do.
 
I hope the liberals who believe in multiculturalism take note of such realities of different cultures.

may they ally with them ? remember saudi arabia

luxury and 7 star hotels but like hell

**** this richness
 
UAE doesn't operate under sharia, I know this will come across pathetically academic but, it is the truth, what they've done if everything is as reported, is devised an asinine law based on misinterpretations of legal principles.
 
UAE doesn't operate under sharia, I know this will come across pathetically academic but, it is the truth, what they've done if everything is as reported, is devised an asinine law based on misinterpretations of legal principles.

Isn't putting a woman who claims she was raped in prison for adultery common place in Sharia law though? Sounds like Sharia to me. How do we know they aren't moving in that direction?
 
Back
Top Bottom