• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Sex Double Standards: Right or Wrong

Sex Double standards, which is wrong if any.

  • 11yr old boy and 16/17yr old girl

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 11yr old girl and 16/17yr old boy

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    24

AGENT J

I'm kind of a big deal
Supporting Member
Monthly Subscriber
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 25, 2010
Messages
58,696
Reaction score
16,597
Location
Pittsburgh
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
This kind of ties in to the talks I brought up yesterday about "Sex Talk", "Virginity" and "Masturbation"

I lost my vigintiy at 11 but wasnt sexually active again until 16. I didnt really know what sex was or what was going on. I had already been masturbating but wasnt sure exactly what it meant. Anyway It had an older girl basically do what she wanted to me as she was curious also and just took advantage of basically watching me over the summer at times.

Now mind you I didnt stop her or tell her to stop one bit!!!! lol but I guess my question is how many people think that was wrong? or a grey area?

I was 11 she was 16/17. She wanted to experiment and learn and she did with me. Seem natural.

I guess the most important opinion is mine has then and even now Im totally fine with it :) but im guessing my parents wouldnt have been and Im guessing some here wouldnt be.

also once you come up with your honest answer, rethink it this way

what if i was a 11 year old girl and it was a 16/17 year old boy

weird huh? Im willing to bet a lot more people would be outraged or at least bothered.

but remember the examples would be identical meaning parties involved were both willing just the gender is switched.

so my question is how many people think it was wrong or not under these terms

1.) 11yr old boy & 16/17yr old girl
2.) 11yr old girl & 16/17yr old boy
3.) both are wrong
4.) both are ok and just kids being kids
5.) other
 

AGENT J

I'm kind of a big deal
Supporting Member
Monthly Subscriber
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 25, 2010
Messages
58,696
Reaction score
16,597
Location
Pittsburgh
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
I voted other, in reality i guess i feel both were wrong even though it was me and i was fine with it but I didnt want to vote both is wrong because I dont think its a clearl cut black and white issue. I think the kids involved need to be taken into consideration and even if wrong the punishment or corrective action needed would vary.

I think where the double standards come into play, in my situation, with the boy being 11 and the girl being 16/17 its easier, natural and more instinctive to assume that the 16/17yr old girl was acting on innocence and curiosity etc

while its easier, natural and more instinctive to assume the 16/17yr old boy was being devious, predator like and taking advantage

IM not saying this is true just saying its my guess people are more likely to subconsciously lean this way

"Oh little sally? she just didnt know what she was doing just a girl exploring"

"little johnny did what?! that freakin little horny pervert!"

lol, just the way things are some times, we have to be careful to use a clear mind
 

tacomancer

Capitalist Social Democrat
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
41,554
Reaction score
22,142
Location
Akron
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
****ed up my vote. Neither category is right.
 

Your Star

Rage More!
DP Veteran
Joined
May 15, 2010
Messages
27,246
Reaction score
19,931
Location
Georgia
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Progressive
Both situations are wrong. The maturity between an 11 year old, and a 16/17 year old are vastly different, and are their sexual maturity. I don't think that 11 year olds are capable of dealing with the emotional side of having sex with another person ( Obviously there are exceptions, as you didn't have any trauma with your experience) but as a whole I think the only sexual thing a person of their age should be doing is masturbating, and kissing.

Now the reason I think there is this double standard is because of societies different roles for boys and girls. Especially regarding sexuality, with boys sex is seen as something normal, and appropriate, hence the term " Boys will be boys." With boys sex is often regarded as something they get, it is assumed that the second they become sexual beings they are on a life long hunt for sex. And any kind of sex they get, no matter how inappropriate it may be, as long as it's consensual there enjoying it, and it's something that they want. Everytime you hear about a young couple in popular media, and the situation is brought up about having sex for the first time, it is almost unanimously the boy pushing for it. The girl has to be convinced to have sex for the first time, and the boy is just dying for her permission. And while this may be the case in some situations, it is certainly not always the case. There is this "cult of masculinity" that boys have to live up to, and if they fail they are subject to ridicule, and humiliation. A part of this is having sex, being a virgin up into his late teens is often an area for the other boys to make fun of him for. And when a guy has sex with alot of girls, he is respected by his peers more and more. And Heaven forbid that a boy just doesn't want to have sex when it is available for him. It is socially unacceptable for a guy to turn down sex. In this society there is hardly ever a mention of a boy not being ready to lose his virginity. I'll stop here with the boys, but I could seriously go on about this all day.

Now for the girls. Girls, especially young girls, are considered innocent little angels. The prime example of purity. Sex for girls is seen as something that defiles their innocence, and when they do have sex, it is thought of as something has been lost. Not just their virginity, but their purity. Hence the phrase " Good girls just don't do that" Girls who show to have an interest in sex are seen as dirty, or nasty. And girls who have sex with multiple partners are seen as sluts and whores.( While their male counterparts are praised for doing the same thing)
Now do boys, and girls have varying levels of interest in sex? No, we are both interested in sex, but why is it socially acceptable for one sex, and not for the other. I think the origin of this has to do with the way women were treated in the past. Where in order to marry a woman you had to pay a dowry, and if she wasn't a virgin the value of the dowry decreased, which hurt the family with the daughter. Also I think it can be attributed to the fact that if there was a pregnancy, the woman couldn't hide the fact she had sex, while up until recently the man could. There were no DNA test in the middle ages.

So in conclusion, the reason I think it is more socially acceptable for the situation that you had, and not socially acceptable for it to happen the other way around is due to the fact of these societal gender roles. When a boy has a situation like this happen to him, it is seen as him getting something he wants, and people often say how lucky he is.
While if the situation is reversed it is seen as someone taking away the girls purity, and innocence.

Sorry for the long post, and I think I kind of rambled there, but the gender roles we artificially put on ourselves interest me quite a bit, and I could of rambled on more, but I tried to keep it short.
 

1069

Banned
Joined
Oct 21, 2006
Messages
24,978
Reaction score
5,126
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
How do you feel about what happened, Centrist77?
Not asking you for the socio-legal implications of it or anything, but how do you feel, emotionally?
Did you feel coerced in any way? Did you feel you were given the option of saying no?
Did you feel like saying no would've had any negative repercussions for you?
Did it make you feel bad in any way, at any point in your life?

To me, it sounds like a pretty clear-cut case of minor-on-minor molestation.
This is not uncommon at all; I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of child sex offenders are, themselves, minors.
I've known many women who were molested around this age by slightly older brothers or cousins.
This has had a negative impact on their lives, even if the sexual activity was ostensibly "mutually consenting"; but I don't know how much of that is because they were related by blood, and because for years after, when they wanted it to stop, they did not feel they could refuse, or tell their parents about it.
How would you tell your parents something like that, especially if the first instance was "mutually consensual" experimentation?
What I'm saying is, they felt coerced/ blackmailed into continuing the sexual relationship, because they were afraid they'd be blamed, at least partially, if they told.
And they probably would've been.
 
Last edited:

AGENT J

I'm kind of a big deal
Supporting Member
Monthly Subscriber
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 25, 2010
Messages
58,696
Reaction score
16,597
Location
Pittsburgh
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
long incitefull post that I very much agree with and also find interesting ;).
no need for apoloigies, I thought the post was very good and inciteful. I also agree with probably 99% of what you said.

I find it interesting also, thats why i asked to see if i got answers and what they were.

I also find it interesting how quickly your point of view is aknowledged when just "talked about" among people. I have had this same talk with girls and guys and we all quickly agree BUT society hasnt caught up yet? weird

I also have talked to women about the word bitch and slut. While of course guys use those terms, most dont really care that much or use those terms to really JUDGE women.Its mostly just talk, but "sometimes" women themselves are VERY VERY quick to use those terms and keep them going much more so than men and based on nothing.
Cant even count how many times ive been at the bar with a group of girls and a complete stranger walks in and some girls are like "look at that slut that just walked in" hahahaha totally funny

and like you said "interesting"
 

Your Star

Rage More!
DP Veteran
Joined
May 15, 2010
Messages
27,246
Reaction score
19,931
Location
Georgia
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Progressive
no need for apoloigies, I thought the post was very good and inciteful. I also agree with probably 99% of what you said.

I find it interesting also, thats why i asked to see if i got answers and what they were.

I also find it interesting how quickly your point of view is aknowledged when just "talked about" among people. I have had this same talk with girls and guys and we all quickly agree BUT society hasnt caught up yet? weird

I also have talked to women about the word bitch and slut. While of course guys use those terms, most dont really care that much or use those terms to really JUDGE women.Its mostly just talk, but "sometimes" women themselves are VERY VERY quick to use those terms and keep them going much more so than men and based on nothing.
Cant even count how many times ive been at the bar with a group of girls and a complete stranger walks in and some girls are like "look at that slut that just walked in" hahahaha totally funny

and like you said "interesting"
Yeah, I totally agree, alot of people will say they don't agree with these gender roles we box ourselves in when we discuss them. But they will conform to them on many levels during their daily life and not think about it. And when you think about it, you can see how easy it is to follow these gender roles. I mean, we are put into this binary box of male or female before we are even born. Think about how exciting it is to find out the sex of a baby in the mothers womb, like it's the most important thing about you. And every action in preparing for you to enter the world is tailored to that answer of male or female. It doesn't stop there either, really take a step back and look at all the things that assumed about us because of our gender. Its even prevalent here on these boards, in your profile under gender if you're a guy, it puts the male symbol colored blue, and if you're a girl it puts the female symbol in pink. What makes blue a masculine color, and pink a feminine? Nothing it's this social construct of gender, and what is socially acceptable for each respective gender. Back in the 1900's it was the opposite, then the colors switched sides.

Also I totally agree about the girls calling each other slut, and bitch. It goes back to the purity thing, as it being the most important part about a girl. You lose that purity you someone lose your femininity. And it's the easiest way to cut down a girl verbally. Gender stereotypes are reinforced by all, and it can be hard to challenge those stereotypes when we live in such a binary world gender wise.
 

AGENT J

I'm kind of a big deal
Supporting Member
Monthly Subscriber
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 25, 2010
Messages
58,696
Reaction score
16,597
Location
Pittsburgh
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
How do you feel about what happened, Centrist77?
Not asking you for the socio-legal implications of it or anything, but how do you feel, emotionally?.
Dont think it effected me at all except that its part of my life.

Did you feel coerced in any way? Did you feel you were given the option of saying no?
hmm "coerced"? well it was definitely her doing, as in her idea and the first time she started everything. We were wrestling, i got hard and she kissed me.
She didnt ask permission but she did seem to do things slow in case i said no.
I had no intentions of saying no and definitely wanted her to do "something" just didnt know what lol

Did you feel like saying no would've had any negative repercussions for you?
again trick question, yes i felt like saying no would have been negative because she may never have done it again and i wanted her to, even though i wasnt sure what "it" was ;)

I didnt feel that saying no would get me in trouble, or i had to listen cause she was older or anything like that

Did it make you feel bad in any way, at any point in your life?
not in a direct way. I felt bad cause some times i wonder if SHE feels bad, maybe she thinks I think it was wrong. But that has been cleared up has we still talk and also had sex/ a relationship later on in life.

I also felt bad between ages 12-16 becuase i KNEW what i was missing out on lol but not in a bad way. It mad it worse cause i knew what i was missing but at the same time i didnt rush into anything or force anything i still wanted a girl I wanted to do it with not just cause she was hot.

To me, it sounds like a pretty clear-cut case of minor-on-minor molestation.
This is not uncommon at all; I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of child sex offenders are, themselves, minors.
I've known many women who were molested around this age by slightly older brothers or cousins.
This has had a negative impact on their lives, even if the sexual activity was ostensibly "mutually consenting"; but I don't know how much of that is because they were related by blood, and because for years after, when they wanted it to stop, they did not feel they could refuse, or tell their parents about it.
How would you tell your parents something like that, especially if the first instance was "mutually consensual" experimentation?
What I'm saying is, they felt coerced/ blackmailed into continuing the sexual relationship, because they were afraid they'd be blamed, at least partially, if they told.
And they probably would've been.
I agree to a point because I thought if i told id be in trouble and i knew it would end i didnt want either one to happen.
 

AGENT J

I'm kind of a big deal
Supporting Member
Monthly Subscriber
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 25, 2010
Messages
58,696
Reaction score
16,597
Location
Pittsburgh
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Yeah, I totally agree, alot of people will say they don't agree with these gender roles we box ourselves in when we discuss them. But they will conform to them on many levels during their daily life and not think about it. And when you think about it, you can see how easy it is to follow these gender roles. I mean, we are put into this binary box of male or female before we are even born. Think about how exciting it is to find out the sex of a baby in the mothers womb, like it's the most important thing about you. And every action in preparing for you to enter the world is tailored to that answer of male or female. It doesn't stop there either, really take a step back and look at all the things that assumed about us because of our gender. Its even prevalent here on these boards, in your profile under gender if you're a guy, it puts the male symbol colored blue, and if you're a girl it puts the female symbol in pink. What makes blue a masculine color, and pink a feminine? Nothing it's this social construct of gender, and what is socially acceptable for each respective gender. Back in the 1900's it was the opposite, then the colors switched sides.

Also I totally agree about the girls calling each other slut, and bitch. It goes back to the purity thing, as it being the most important part about a girl. You lose that purity you someone lose your femininity. And it's the easiest way to cut down a girl verbally. Gender stereotypes are reinforced by all, and it can be hard to challenge those stereotypes when we live in such a binary world gender wise.
yep, binary gender, i like that. I agree its a trap we fall into everyday
 

1069

Banned
Joined
Oct 21, 2006
Messages
24,978
Reaction score
5,126
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Well, I'm glad this was a positive experience for you.

I don't think I would've been ready to have sex at that age (but I was not really even beginning puberty at eleven; I was a late bloomer).
A couple of years later, I was definitely ready, and just looking for the right guy.
I lost my virginity at 14, and I got pregnant almost immediately, and was 15 when my oldest child was born.

In retrospect, it all seems really fast, although of course a kid-year is like a dog-year... it seems about as long as seven regular years. :lol:

I'm glad you didn't end up becoming a father at twelve.
 

AGENT J

I'm kind of a big deal
Supporting Member
Monthly Subscriber
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 25, 2010
Messages
58,696
Reaction score
16,597
Location
Pittsburgh
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Well, I'm glad this was a positive experience for you.

I don't think I would've been ready to have sex at that age (but I was not really even beginning puberty at eleven; I was a late bloomer).
A couple of years later, I was definitely ready, and just looking for the right guy.
I lost my virginity at 14, and I got pregnant almost immediately, and was 15 when my oldest child was born.

In retrospect, it all seems really fast, although of course a kid-year is like a dog-year... it seems about as long as seven regular years. :lol:

I'm glad you didn't end up becoming a father at twelve.
hahaha me too
although i was a dad young at 19 1/2 but thats a long story also that i wil tell in a minute.
Im pretty much an open book for the most part as you dont really know me ;)

In the other thread i admitted starting to masturbate at like 9 or 10, 4th or 5th grade but without being graphic I also remember that while i achieved orgasm I was so young i still shot blanks, no ejaculation, and around when I was 11 and me and that girl were fooling around the ejaculate was very clear, now that does NOT mean it was free of swimmers because i learned thats not the case but at my age it probably was.

But overall like ou said the experience wasnt scarring or anything.

now on to my young father hood, I had a girlfriend who lied to me about her birth control. I wanted her to be on the shot and she said she would and told me she was but found out she was only only the pill and she stopped takin them on purpose to get pregnant.

Oh well things happen,

Now im a single father with full custody and my daughter is doing great. Sometimes im verry happy about our ages because im not so out of touch with her world and reality.
 

1069

Banned
Joined
Oct 21, 2006
Messages
24,978
Reaction score
5,126
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Seems like a lot of single dads on this board.
Not too many single moms.
Maybe most single moms can't afford internet, or don't have the leisure time to post on forums.

Anyway, I'm glad your daughter is doing well. Young parenthood has its advantages and drawbacks.
 

AGENT J

I'm kind of a big deal
Supporting Member
Monthly Subscriber
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 25, 2010
Messages
58,696
Reaction score
16,597
Location
Pittsburgh
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Seems like a lot of single dads on this board.
Not too many single moms.
Maybe most single moms can't afford internet, or don't have the leisure time to post on forums.

Anyway, I'm glad your daughter is doing well. Young parenthood has its advantages and drawbacks.
Thanks!
and i dont know how it works everywhere but when i didnt have full custody free internet was provided to her mom along with my child support, i get neither :/
But im fine with that it is what it is, I dont qualify for help cause of my job, which is fine and she doesnt pay child support because shes a degenerate, a dead beat mom :D lol
nor has she even spoke to her daughter since nov 20th 2005 but again a diffident topic ;)
 

O_Guru

Well-known member
Joined
May 5, 2010
Messages
758
Reaction score
155
Location
Pittsburgh, PA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
I agree its other has some have said because I just feel its too open of a subject to just say its wrong. Same reason why i just cant say its right either.
Kids will be kids but each situation is different.
 
Last edited:

Mell

Well-known member
Joined
May 11, 2010
Messages
1,008
Reaction score
145
Location
Germany
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
I dont think those of who are above the legal age of sex consent should have sex with those who are not. Children may be sexually mature before the age of consent, but they are not emotionally and mentally mature. An adult should find another adult to have sex with, even if the child wants it.
 

AGENT J

I'm kind of a big deal
Supporting Member
Monthly Subscriber
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 25, 2010
Messages
58,696
Reaction score
16,597
Location
Pittsburgh
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
I dont think those of who are above the legal age of sex consent should have sex with those who are not. Children may be sexually mature before the age of consent, but they are not emotionally and mentally mature. An adult should find another adult to have sex with, even if the child wants it.
I agree in theory but what makes it hard is the grey are at the age of consent, for example if its 16 and the people involved are 16 and 15, then what? but thats just on an opinion level.

If we get into the law, the law is TOTALLY messed up in this regard, for example a 17yr old girl and 17yr old boy sending pictures to eachother can get busted for child pornography and have to register has "sex offenders" give me a break! the law definitely needs lots of work in this area.
 

rivrrat

Goddess of Bacon
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 26, 2007
Messages
13,988
Reaction score
6,593
Location
Charlottesville, VA
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
I said other. Depends on the kids involved. Gender is irrelevant to me, however.
 

Mell

Well-known member
Joined
May 11, 2010
Messages
1,008
Reaction score
145
Location
Germany
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
I agree in theory but what makes it hard is the grey are at the age of consent, for example if its 16 and the people involved are 16 and 15, then what? but thats just on an opinion level.

If we get into the law, the law is TOTALLY messed up in this regard, for example a 17yr old girl and 17yr old boy sending pictures to eachother can get busted for child pornography and have to register has "sex offenders" give me a break! the law definitely needs lots of work in this area.
I think, in these kinds of cases, they should be sent to classes on the law, to teach them what is an offence. But, I dont think official criminal charges should be made against them. I certainly dont think they should be registered as sex offenders. This is way too harsh, for kids that age.
 

Your Star

Rage More!
DP Veteran
Joined
May 15, 2010
Messages
27,246
Reaction score
19,931
Location
Georgia
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Progressive
I agree in theory but what makes it hard is the grey are at the age of consent, for example if its 16 and the people involved are 16 and 15, then what? but thats just on an opinion level.

If we get into the law, the law is TOTALLY messed up in this regard, for example a 17yr old girl and 17yr old boy sending pictures to eachother can get busted for child pornography and have to register has "sex offenders" give me a break! the law definitely needs lots of work in this area.
Really? Wow, I don't think a minor doing something with another minor when they are close in age like that should be illegal. No way should they be sex offenders for something like that.
 

AGENT J

I'm kind of a big deal
Supporting Member
Monthly Subscriber
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 25, 2010
Messages
58,696
Reaction score
16,597
Location
Pittsburgh
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
I think, in these kinds of cases, they should be sent to classes on the law, to teach them what is an offence. But, I dont think official criminal charges should be made against them. I certainly dont think they should be registered as sex offenders. This is way too harsh, for kids that age.
I agree 100% thats why it needs lots of work. I dont think a 19yrold dating a 17yr old should have to register has a sex offender either and be labeled a rapist (statutory rape)
law is definitely all messed up in this area
 

AGENT J

I'm kind of a big deal
Supporting Member
Monthly Subscriber
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 25, 2010
Messages
58,696
Reaction score
16,597
Location
Pittsburgh
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Really? Wow, I don't think a minor doing something with another minor when they are close in age like that should be illegal. No way should they be sex offenders for something like that.
HUH? you must have misunderstood me or i misspoke some where. I dont think it whould be illegal, i was saying that some of these things ARE illegal now and they would be charged as sex offenders. Sorry for the confusion.
 

Your Star

Rage More!
DP Veteran
Joined
May 15, 2010
Messages
27,246
Reaction score
19,931
Location
Georgia
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Progressive
HUH? you must have misunderstood me or i misspoke some where. I dont think it whould be illegal, i was saying that some of these things ARE illegal now and they would be charged as sex offenders. Sorry for the confusion.
Oh, no I didn't think that you thought it should be illegal. I was just shocked that the law was like that, and stating my opinion on the matter.
 

kaya'08

DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 25, 2008
Messages
6,363
Reaction score
1,318
Location
British Turk
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
She's ****ed up and should be imprisoned?
 

AGENT J

I'm kind of a big deal
Supporting Member
Monthly Subscriber
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 25, 2010
Messages
58,696
Reaction score
16,597
Location
Pittsburgh
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Oh, no I didn't think that you thought it should be illegal. I was just shocked that the law was like that, and stating my opinion on the matter.
oooooooooh, lol sorry
yeah theres kids right now being treated has sex offenders for send nuding picture to the GF or BF and they are both under age or one is 18 and one is 17.
 
Top Bottom