Sex Dolls and Pedophelia

[Geoist]

It is the nature of this particular deviance that putting the safety of the child is more important than any consideration for the freedom of a peadophile. Even those who peadophiles who are trying to do the right thing need to understand that. It is not putting blame on them or saying it is their fault. It is simply recognising that this is a deviance that is dangerous to children.

So then I assume you propose immediately putting all pedophiles and accused pedophiles into either a prison, concentration camp, or simply put down/executed? After all, we can't put the rights of the pedo ahead of our children, right?

 

[lwf]

It is not that i disagree with the sentiment of your argument but we also must realise that if we treat peadophile by putting trust in their word they will do harm then the consequence if we are wrong is that child will be harmed.
It is the nature of this particular deviance that putting the safety of the child is more important than any consideration for the freedom of a peadophile. Even those who peadophiles who are trying to do the right thing need to understand that. It is not putting blame on them or saying it is their fault. It is simply recognising that this is a deviance that is dangerous to children.

There is nothing wrong with recognizing this. I don't recommend letting someone with a pedophilia disorder babysit your children no matter how successful they are at managing it. That said, I have no right to force them to register with the government solely because of their disorder. If they haven't committed a crime, then I have no right to know about their disorder. It is private information that is theirs to share or not as they see fit. If I find out about it, I can act to keep my children away, but I do not have a right to this information unless they commit a crime.

 

[soylentgreen]

Yes it does. That is exactly what therapy is for. It teaches people with this disorder how to manage their behavior and avoid potentially dangerous situations. And it is successful more often than not.

Which means you might, not will have a percentage that does not offend without any ability to tell which will.

 

[CLAX1911]

You are equivocating "slip up" to suit your argument. Why do you presume a pedophile "slip up" equates to sex with a minor, while an alcoholic "slip up" is nothing more than having a drink?

stop equivocating pedophile to alcoholic.

You chose that comparison not me. I told you it was a poor one but you insisted on it.

A slip up when you're recovering from addiction is using the substance you were addicted to.

Wanting to molest children is not a substance you can be addicted to. It's a horrendous crime that if you commit once you deserve the death penalty.

The pedophile slip up equivalent of an alcoholic having a drink might be to google pictures of children on the internet.

I would consider that as equal to thinking about having a drink if you're ever having alcoholic

A pedophile slip up equivalent of driving drunk might be chatting with a minor on the internet but not actually meeting them in person.

A comparable slip up of the magnitude of having sex with a child would be an alcoholic driving drunk and seriously injuring or killing someone.

A pedophile can slip up as much as an alcoholic can without harming anyone. A severe slip up for the pedophile can result in a child being molested. A severe slip up for an alcoholic can result in a child being killed.
[/QUOTE]
I completely reject your equivocation. A pedophile slipping up the results in a child being molested having a drink of liquor doesn't result in a child being molested.

A pedophile must resist their urge to molest children 100% of the time anything other than a perfect is unacceptable.

 

[grip]

This is dangerously close to policing thoughts. Pedophilia cannot be controlled or pacified with placebic props, it requires therapy.

 

[CLAX1911]

This is dangerously close to policing thoughts. Pedophilia cannot be controlled or pacified with placebic props, it requires therapy.

I don't think it can be controlled with therapy. It certainly can't be pacified with therapy therapy is not a pacifier it is a way to create a coping mechanism it's not a cure it's not treatment.

 

[lwf]

The nature of peadophile is that it effects those who have no self protection, children. Someone with anger management usually takes it out on adults who do have the rights and abilities to deal with it or at least seek help. Children do not have that ability and peadophilia is such that children are tricked into being victims. This can not be compared to anger management.

Why are you assuming that people with anger management issues don't take their anger out on children? Of course they do. Children are abused physically and emotionally by angry adults all the time. People in anger management are every bit as capable of harming a child as a pedophile is. You could even make an argument that a child is more likely to experience severe physical and emotional injury at the hands of an angry adult than one with a sexual attraction to them.

Suffice it to say, whether the perpetrator has anger problems or sexual problems, harming a child in any way is and should be a heinous crime and should put the perpetrator on a registry an ensure they lose their freedom. However, if no crime is committed, it is unjust to put people seeking help for a disorder on a registry and limit their freedom based on what they might do. We're all capable of hurting children. We simply don't want to and go out of our way to avoid doing so. Most pedophiles are in the same boat, they just have deviant sexual urges that they have to manage while doing so. Those pedophiles that aren't in the same boat are child molesters and can and should be arrested and put on a registry.

Laws can only go so far to keep us safe. More important than safety is freedom. At some point, we all have to take responsibility for our own actions and protect our children with our own hands, rather than relying on the government to legislate down all the rough corners and remove anyone who makes us a little uncomfortable. The only cost that is too high to protect children from a dangerous world is freedom. You can't take away freedom from someone who has not committed a crime, and you can only criminalize behavior. You cannot criminalize desire.

 

[CLAX1911]

Why are you assuming that people with anger management issues don't take their anger out on children?

Having anger problems isn't specifically targeted at children pedophilia is. Excessive yelling or cussing can be the problem that made you seek anger management therapy. Alcoholism and anger problems are not equivalent to pedophilia

 

[soylentgreen]

Why are you assuming that people with anger management issues don't take their anger out on children? Of course they do. Children are abused physically and emotionally by angry adults all the time. People in anger management are every bit as capable of harming a child as a pedophile is. You could even make an argument that a child is more likely to experience severe physical and emotional injury at the hands of an angry adult than one with a sexual attraction to them.

Suffice it to say, whether the perpetrator has anger problems or sexual problems, harming a child in any way is and should be a heinous crime and should put the perpetrator on a registry an ensure they lose their freedom. However, if no crime is committed, it is unjust to put people seeking help for a disorder on a registry and limit their freedom based on what they might do. We're all capable of hurting children. We simply don't want to and go out of our way to avoid doing so. Most pedophiles are in the same boat, they just have deviant sexual urges that they have to manage while doing so. Those pedophiles that aren't in the same boat are child molesters and can and should be arrested and put on a registry.

Laws can only go so far to keep us safe. More important than safety is freedom. At some point, we all have to take responsibility for our own actions and protect our children with our own hands, rather than relying on the government to legislate down all the rough corners and remove anyone who makes us a little uncomfortable. The only cost that is too high to protect children from a dangerous world is freedom. You can't take away freedom from someone who has not committed a crime, and you can only criminalize behavior. You cannot criminalize desire.

Child abuse and peadophiliaa are to different things. Why are you trying to conflate the two? What on earth makes you think that the way we treat one is the way we should also treat the other.

The idea that a paedophiles freedom is greater than the safety of a child works right up to the point when it is your child who is abused. After that it will be just endless whinging by you as to why the authorities did not do something about it.

 

[soylentgreen]

This is dangerously close to policing thoughts. Pedophilia cannot be controlled or pacified with placebic props, it requires therapy.

What therapy?

 

[soylentgreen]

So then I assume you propose immediately putting all pedophiles and accused pedophiles into either a prison, concentration camp, or simply put down/executed? After all, we can't put the rights of the pedo ahead of our children, right?

Again I need to ask are you simply trying to prove that for an american stupidity is considered a right rather than a problem. This is your best shot at a solution is it? Apart from being pathetic it makes me want to ask in what way are you any better than a peadophile.

 

[soylentgreen]

There is nothing wrong with recognizing this. I don't recommend letting someone with a pedophilia disorder babysit your children no matter how successful they are at managing it. That said, I have no right to force them to register with the government solely because of their disorder. If they haven't committed a crime, then I have no right to know about their disorder. It is private information that is theirs to share or not as they see fit. If I find out about it, I can act to keep my children away, but I do not have a right to this information unless they commit a crime.

In any other criminal area I might agree. But here your simply saying that the best we can do is hope a peadophile will not molest a child because of some ridiculous view that freedom for a peadophile to do as they please is more important.

You say you would not let a known peadophile babysit your child. What about letting them become a priest for the catholic church or a troop leader in the boy scouts. Should they be teacher of our children? Should they be allowed any employment that brings them into contact with children?

As for you or anyone knowing the names of peadophiles on a register that is whole field of problems in itself. What would you say to a parent who child has been molested but the authorities knew about the peadophile and that he lived close by where your child lived but did not do anything because he had not actually committed a crime. If you tell the people in an area that a known peadophile lives there then it is probable he will get a molotov through the window one night. If you don't tell and something goes wrong people are going to want someone in authority to blame.

There are no simple solutions to the problem of pedophilia.

 

[Geoist]

Again I need to ask are you simply trying to prove that for an american stupidity is considered a right rather than a problem.

Want to try again without the personal shots?

This is your best shot at a solution is it?

Nope, I've explained my solution. I'm trying to understand yours.

Apart from being pathetic it makes me want to ask in what way are you any better than a peadophile.

So because I am trying to understand your POV and have a solution that is different from yours, you ask yourself, "in what way is the person I disagree with better than a pedophile?"

 

[soylentgreen]

Want to try again without the personal shots?

No, i am quite happy with the response that points out just how ridiculous your comment was.

Nope, I've explained my solution. I'm trying to understand yours.

Your solution is one created from ignorance and your lack of education in this area means you lack the wit to understand mine.

So because I am trying to understand your POV and have a solution that is different from yours, you ask yourself, "in what way is the person I disagree with better than a pedophile?"

But you do not have a solution. You are simply doing what the many who choose to remain ignorant on this subject have done., which is nothing more than venting hate.

Unless you can actually demonstrate that you can think then I am putting you in the same category of disgust I have for people like dayton 3 who simply want to kill peadophiles.

 

[grip]

I don't think it can be controlled with therapy. It certainly can't be pacified with therapy therapy is not a pacifier it is a way to create a coping mechanism it's not a cure it's not treatment.

Got anything better than chemical castration or sex dolls? Therapy, meds, and group sessions are the best providers of coping mechanisms that currently exist.

 

[grip]

What therapy?

Some of the treatment methods for persons with pedophilia include cognitive-behavior therapy – such as relapse-prevention therapy, aversion therapy, masturbatory satiation and orgasmic reorientation; group therapy; psychotherapy and drug therapy.

Pedophilic Disorder: Treatment Options: Medication and Therapy

There are medical, hormonal prescriptions, and talk therapies to treat the disorder.

pro.psychcentral.com

 

[CLAX1911]

Got anything better than chemical castration or sex dolls? Therapy, meds, and group sessions are the best providers of coping mechanisms that currently exist.

Coping mechanisms only work if you are willing to try. And they aren't perfect. I would recommend surveillance.

 

[grip]

Coping mechanisms only work if you are willing to try. And they aren't perfect. I would recommend surveillance.

They already have registered sex offender lists and neighborhood watches. I think it takes all we got to help people with this mental illness.

 

[Geoist]

No, i am quite happy with the response that points out just how ridiculous your comment was.

I have no problem with shots taken at my comments. I take issue when people take personal shots directly at the poster, and that is exactly what you did.

Your solution is one created from ignorance and your lack of education in this area means you lack the wit to understand mine.

There you go again with the personal shots.

But you do not have a solution.

In the same post you contradict yourself going from 'ignorant solution' to 'no solution.' It's like I'm reading a Trump speech transcript.

You are simply doing what the many who choose to remain ignorant on this subject have done., which is nothing more than venting hate.

Umm, what? Hate towards who? What are you talking about?

Unless you can actually demonstrate that you can think then I am putting you in the same category of disgust I have for people like dayton 3 who simply want to kill peadophiles.

I don't know what you are going on about. I have made clear in this thread I want pedophiles to be able to reach out to therapists and get help.

 

[CLAX1911]

They already have registered sex offender lists and neighborhood watches. I think it takes all we got to help people with this mental illness.

I don't think there's any help for them.

 

[CLAX1911]

No, i am quite happy with the response that points out just how ridiculous your comment was.


Your solution is one created from ignorance and your lack of education in this area means you lack the wit to understand mine.

people who haven't studied the behavioral sciences formally or otherwise often think of therapy as treatment and mental disorders as a disease.

That's not what it is. Therapy simply helps you cope. It helps you live with whatever problems or symptoms your mental disorder has. Mental disorders are more like being crippled. Chances are you're probably never going to live without it.

But you do not have a solution. You are simply doing what the many who choose to remain ignorant on this subject have done., which is nothing more than venting hate.

Unless you can actually demonstrate that you can think then I am putting you in the same category of disgust I have for people like dayton 3 who simply want to kill peadophiles.

As far as a solution goes, most people who abused children were abused themselves as children. It is a cycle that repeats. The only way to solve a good majority of it is to break that cycle. It makes you feel good to talk about Justice and punishing offenders but little or no thought is given to the victims. They will most likely become the next generation of offenders.

This is an extremely complex problem one that I think has been part of our species since the dawn of it. To solve it is going to take an extreme amount of effort, money, manpower, and time.

I don't think people have the patience for that. We want a quick fix we want to see it ended in our lifetimes. It probably won't be.

 

[soylentgreen]

I have no problem with shots taken at my comments. I take issue when people take personal shots directly at the poster, and that is exactly what you did.




There you go again with the personal shots.




In the same post you contradict yourself going from 'ignorant solution' to 'no solution.' It's like I'm reading a Trump speech transcript.




Umm, what? Hate towards who? What are you talking about?



I don't know what you are going on about. I have made clear in this thread I want pedophiles to be able to reach out to therapists and get help.

You seem to have a habit of accusing me for the things you are saying.
My saying that the solution you present is based on ignorance of the subject does not mean I have contradicted myself when I also say that there is no solution.
Look back to post #251. That, as you admit from the start is your assumption, not my words.
You do not appear to even know what you are going on about. I have presented you with nothing that would suggest i would advocate for what you, I repeat, you suggested in post #251.
And you call me out for insulting you when you twist my argument to pretend to assume I have suggested such harsh penalties.

This excuse of wanting to get then help through therapy are just well meaning wishes. There is no guarantee that therapies will work. They are not a magic bullet that stops forever wanting to be a peadophile. Which means that a child is in fact at risk. So to get back to the argument of this thread. While a sex doll in the form of a small child of any age, may look like therapy, might even act like it for awhile. It gives you **** all guarantee that the particular peadophile using the doll will never molest a child.

What such a doll does offer the rest of society is that person who is only using one, is a person who we should be keeping an eye on at the very least and above any other method as suggested by you in post #251.

 

[lwf]

Child abuse and peadophiliaa are to different things. Why are you trying to conflate the two? What on earth makes you think that the way we treat one is the way we should also treat the other.

The idea that a paedophiles freedom is greater than the safety of a child works right up to the point when it is your child who is abused. After that it will be just endless whinging by you as to why the authorities did not do something about it.

The only difference between sexual abuse and other types of physical and emotional abuse are the motives of the perpetrator. The effect on the child is the same.

 

[soylentgreen]

The only difference between sexual abuse and other types of physical and emotional abuse are the motives of the perpetrator. The effect on the child is the same.

Agreed. So there is no reason to suggest we apply the same methods of therapy or suggest the same methods of dealing with each will get similar results. Nor could it be said that a peadophile will contact a child out of anger. Rather they usually apply cunning.

 

[lwf]

In any other criminal area I might agree. But here your simply saying that the best we can do is hope a peadophile will not molest a child because of some ridiculous view that freedom for a peadophile to do as they please is more important.

You say you would not let a known peadophile babysit your child. What about letting them become a priest for the catholic church or a troop leader in the boy scouts. Should they be teacher of our children? Should they be allowed any employment that brings them into contact with children?

As for you or anyone knowing the names of peadophiles on a register that is whole field of problems in itself. What would you say to a parent who child has been molested but the authorities knew about the peadophile and that he lived close by where your child lived but did not do anything because he had not actually committed a crime. If you tell the people in an area that a known peadophile lives there then it is probable he will get a molotov through the window one night. If you don't tell and something goes wrong people are going to want someone in authority to blame.

There are no simple solutions to the problem of pedophilia.

No there aren't simple solutions. I don't advocate letting a pedophile be in a position where they have contact with children. What I argue against is the notion that I have some inherent right to access their medical records in order to determine if a someone is a pedophile. I can access their criminal records, but not their medical records. If I find out that they suffer from pedophilia and are being treated for it, I have every right to keep them away from children using any legal means. But I don't have a right to access their medical records in the first place to find out.