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September 11th conspiracy theories

Re: 911 WAS an inside job.

To anyone out there reading this all I can say is don't listen to me, or anybody else on this forum in regards to this subject. Do your own research, draw your own conclusions. Keep an open mind and really look into it though there is a plethora of media available to you on this subject. I won't steer you where to go anymore. I'll just say seek and you shall find, the truth will set you free.....peace.
 
Re: 911 WAS an inside job.

GySgt said:
I've been the recipient of hugs and kissses on the cheek and I was even helped up once after an IED blast.

Same difference as a flower gunny. We hear these stories again and again from the front lines. But the libs just ignore or don't believe it. Gandhi>Bush, when you say we are making enemies more than before and I say no, this is exactly what I'm talking about. On the news the other day I saw a little Arab girl give a soldier a flower. Rhetoric your way around that libbers. By the way gunny, between you and me, I think they are calling you a liar. I don't know about these days but when I was in calling a marine a liar.........
 
Re: 911 WAS an inside job.

We aren't making enemies over there. It just seems like that, because of all the insurgency. The media will lead you to believe that every mortar round or IED that goes off is like the end of the world, when in reality, the majority of the Iraqi people haven't had any violence placed upon them. If their are 100 hundred Iraqis in a group, the media will seek out the one person that will help them sell a story.

It's like seeing a gang shooting on TV and declaring that the city is in anarchy. Reality people.....join us.

George W. Bush for President!!!....Oh, twice too late. The majority of American voters would rather trust their government than to look for any splinter of contriversy in the desperate hopes of finding a conspiracy. It's a good thing you people don't live in other countries where conspiracies abound. You would suffer anxiety attacks all day long. Life is hard enough without hoping that your governmnent isn't out to kill you. 8 million free Iraqi's would contest to that.
 
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Re: 911 WAS an inside job.

GySgt said:
We aren't making enemies over there. It just seems like that, because of all the insurgency. The media will lead you to believe that every mortar round or IED that goes off is like the end of the world, when in reality, the majority of the Iraqi people haven't had any violence placed upon them. If their are 100 hundred Iraqis in a group, the media will seek out the one person that will help them sell a story.

If that's true how come when they do polls of the Iraqi people they come back with results showing 70-80 percent of them dislike the US occupation?

And with all due respect Gunny- I've spoken to a lot of returning National Guard and reg. Army members whose opinions differ from yours greatly. I've also spoken to returning members who see it your way as well. It appears maybe there's at least some division among our services members as well.
 
Re: 911 WAS an inside job.

Because polls are polls. They can show what ever a person wants them to show. If I poll certain sectors of Iraq where the largest percentage polled are Sunni and pissed off that they don't have it as good as they used to when Saddam favored them.....then you will get the kind of results you speak of. That very same poll taking tactic is used in America between Democrats and Republicans. I can go to a town next to the Syrian border and take a poll where 100 percent will say they want us there. A poll of a thousand, hardly represent the 8 million living there in fear of murder from their own Muslim people.

Of course there is division. Nothing is absolute. Most of the National Guard are only pissed that they had to deploy (as seen continuosly by their unproffessionalism over there) and really don't care about anything else. Same go with reservists. There is no division amongst Marines. Being located in most all of the more violent areas, things are very clear to us.

A Sheik in the Al-Anbar Province...."I wish you weren't here in my heart, but in my head I know you should stay."
 
Re: 911 WAS an inside job.

GySgt said:
Because polls are polls. They can show what ever a person wants them to show. If I poll certain sectors of Iraq where the largest percentage polled are Sunni and pissed off that they don't have it as good as they used to when Saddam favored them.....then you will get the kind of results you speak of. That very same poll taking tactic is used in America between Democrats and Republicans. I can go to a town next to the Syrian border and take a poll where 100 percent will say they want us there. A poll of a thousand, hardly represent the 8 million living there in fear of murder from their own Muslim people.

Of course there is division. Nothing is absolute. Most of the National Guard are only pissed that they had to deploy (as seen continuosly by their unproffessionalism over there) and really don't care about anything else. Same go with reservists. There is no division amongst Marines. Being located in most all of the more violent areas, things are very clear to us.

A Sheik in the Al-Anbar Province...."I wish you weren't here in my heart, but in my head I know you should stay."

Interesting thoughts. I have no idea what to think of the situation as a whole. I will say I have spoken to a couple Marines who also disagree with you. But I honestly couldn't tell you if they were reservist. Though I will say by far most Marines I talked to said basically what you're saying. I saw several GOP congress men on the Sunday morning news shows here and it seems that even among the GOP there's a lot of disagreement on the situation. Here's a story regarding this:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/iraq_usa_republicans_dc;_ylt=AqvF4__u86YZbkVQTRDJFkcXr7sF;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl

As for the polls, I've heard of ABC doing a poll that showed more and more Iraqis do like our being there. Another member on here sited that poll and said "I bet ABC doesn't make the mistake of doing another poll." I guessing because he thought ABC would want the poll to show that they dislike our being there. And I don't think polls per se can show what the pollster wants it to, if so the polls the White House are conducting wouldn't show Bush's approval ratings tanking as they are. But that's over here. The situation in Iraq is most certainly not equal. As you point out depending on where the sample is taken the out come can be completely varied.
 
Re: 911 WAS an inside job.

Iraq is split into two. A large percentage is Sunni, but the larger percentage makes up the rest of the population, which also includes Arabs and Jews. The insurgency is made up of "out of" country militant Islamist and a lot of "in country" Sunni. The Iraqi government has given the Sunni seats on the council, even though they didn't turn out to vote in hopes that the Sunni will get involved with building Iraq and not help the insurgency tear it apart. Incidentally, these same bunch of people just detonated bombs in Iran this weekend, according to the Iranian Security Council. It's no coincidence that Iran has an election coming up.

I've learned over many years that the Muslim people of the Middle East are peaceful people. They are just like any one else in other countries. Unfortunately, their worse enemy is their own people. It's the controlling and loud minority that are the terrorist and makes the news. This is who we are fed up with and fighting. We certainly aren't assisting the bad guys by blowing up our own buildings. (Just trying to stay on topic)


PS..WHY DOES IT SAY STUDENT UNDER MY NAME?
 
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Re: 911 WAS an inside job.

We certainly aren't assisting the bad guys by blowing up our own buildings.

Absolutely agree with you on that one. And I find it completely insulting to those who lost loved ones in those attacked to be running around making such absurd claims.
 
Re: 911 WAS an inside job.

UQ Wire: Kevin Ryan - A Personal Decision
Friday, 10 June 2005, 1:46 pm
Opinion: www.UnansweredQuestions.org
Distribution via the Unanswered Questions Wire
http://www.unansweredquestions.org/ .

A Personal Decision

By Kevin Ryan
June 9th 2005

Have you ever found yourself caught between several hundred million
people and their most cherished lies? After writing a letter to a
government scientist, pleading with him to clarify a report of his
work, I found myself in just that situation. The letter was circulated
on the internet and for a brief time I became a reluctant celebrity. Of
course I stand behind what I wrote, although it was originally intended
as a personal message, not an open letter. Since many have asked for
clarification, here is my message to all.

[For background to Kevin Ryan's personal story seeŠ UQ Wire:
Underwriter Speaks Out On WTC Study & UQ Wire: 9/11 Whistleblower Kevin
Ryan Fired - UQ Wire Editor.]

To me, the report in question represents a decision point, not just
for the US, but for humanity as a whole. We're at a point where we must
decide if we will live consciously, or literally give up our entire
reality for a thin veneer of lies. In the US these lies include cheap
propaganda that passes for journalism, police-state measures that
promise security, and mountains of debt that paint a picture of wealth.
Additionally we've adopted many implicit self-deceptions, like the idea
that we'll always enjoy a limitless share of the world's resources, no
matter where these are located or who might disagree.

All people lie to themselves. It's one of the most important things we
have yet to accept about our own nature. We lie to ourselves to justify
our past actions, to protect our self-image, and to promote ourselves
relative to others. This lying is at the root of many of our problems
(e.g. nationalism and racism). Until we see this, and strive to
understand if not control it, the resulting problems will continue
unchecked and the outcome will be certain. Any organism or society that
makes self-deception its modus operandi will make many bad, and
ultimately fatal, decisions. The day will come when we are collectively
fooling ourselves in such a way that we essentially trade everything we
have for what's behind our fantasy curtain. It appears that day is
near.

The official conspiracy theory of 9/11 is a key part of our current
self-deception. More importantly, this story may be our last chance to
see just how critical our situation is so that we can all stop, and
begin working together to solve the real problems we face. These
problems, for the US and the world as a whole, amount to a growing
storm of factors including environmental changes, resource depletion,
and growth in resource usage.[1,2] Undoubtedly the secret Energy
Taskforce report of May 2001 would verify this, and help us to
understand that our government is responding to some of these threats
with a carefully laid out plan. This plan assumes that people cannot
rise above their own natural, ego-based self-deception, and therefore
few of us will survive the coming storm. In essence, they're betting
against us.

Anyone who honestly looks at the evidence has difficulty finding
anything in the official story of 9/11 that is believable. It's not
just one or two strange twists or holes in the story, the whole thing
is bogus from start to end.[3] In my previous job I was in a position
to question one part, the collapse of three tall buildings due to fire.
But this isn't really a chemistry or engineering problem, and may be
best approached initially through statistics.

The three WTC buildings in question weren't all designed the same way
and weren't all hit by airplanes. The only thing they seemed to have in
common were relatively small and manageable fires, as indicated by the
work of firefighters right up to the moment of collapse. From the
government's report we know that only a small percentage of the
supporting columns in each of the first two buildings were severed, and
that the jet fuel burned off in just a few minutes.

To follow the latest "leading hypothesis", what are the odds that all
the fireproofing fell off in just the right places, even far from the
point of impact? Without much test data, let's say it's one in a
thousand. And what are the odds that the office furnishings converged
to supply highly directed and (somehow) forced-oxygen fires at very
precise points on the remaining columns? Is it another one in a
thousand? What is the chance that those points would then all soften in
unison, and give way perfectly, so that the highly dubious "progressive
global collapse" theory could be born? I wouldn't even care to guess.
But finally, with well over a hundred fires in tall buildings through
history, what are the chances that the first, second and third
incidents of fire-induced collapse would all occur on the same day?
Let's say it's one in a million. Considering just these few points
we're looking at a one in a trillion chance, using generous estimates
and not really considering the third building (no plane, no jet fuel,
different construction).

How convenient that our miraculous result, combined with several other
trains of similarly unlikely events, gives us reason to invade the few
most strategically important lands for the production of oil and
natural gas. As I said, this is not about chemistry or engineering. Our
continued dependence on this highly improbable story means that we have
a desperate need to believe it. It is, in fact, a psychology problem.

Solving the problem is a personal challenge, and involves at least
three steps. First, we have to admit we were wrong, and that we were
fooled. This is not easy for most people, but congratulations to the
neo-cons for noticing that their political opponents seem to be least
able to admit they were wrong on any significant issue. Secondly, we
have to see that terrorism is actually much worse than we feared
because the terrorists are in charge. Such a pause on a national scale
would be dramatic to say the least. If we get to the third step we
begin to realize the scope of change necessary to move forward in a
conscious manner. Obviously the US government must be substantially
changed and/or forgiven. New cooperative, multinational agreements
would need to be implemented immediately.[4]

If you make it through step one and care enough about people to work
for step three, you may face ridicule and isolation. You may lose your
income and some friends, but if we continue down the same path there's
a real chance you're going to lose those anyway. On the upside you may
be able to hold on to some sense of integrity. The only thing you can
be certain of is that we're all in this together. No matter how you
voted, what credentials or positions you hold, or what faith you have
in people, you will face the consequences of our collective
self-deceptions. Now is the time for each of us to decide between a
stormy reality and what's behind the fantasy curtain.


FOOTNOTES:
1. http://www.energybulletin.net/primer.php
2. http://www.worldwatch.org/press/news/2005/05/12/
3. http://www.septembereleventh.org/newsarchive/2005-05-22-571pglie.php
4. http://www.peakoil.net/uhdsg/UppsalaProtocol.html
 
Re: 911 WAS an inside job.

GySgt:
"I've encountered these "fallen soldiers" too. These soldiers that you seem to think are "saying it like it is" are always reservists that are pissed off that they had to actually live up to their agreements to the government and deploy."

Uh, NO, they're not...

http://www.inmotionmagazine.com/opin/pr_sjm.html

That's just one prominent example. See the film "The Cost Of War" for many more examples of men who gladly signed up to join and serve in Iraq, only to find out afterwards that they were lied to and victimized by their own gov't.

Gunny, please bother to read the links I provide before you spout the same old partisan talking points again.
 
Re: 911 WAS an inside job.

Teach (and all those on this forum who buy the gov't's lie):

Please read this. This is from an expert from the very company that certified the WTC's steel:


http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20041112144051451

And to Pacridge & anyone else repeating the tired and ridiculous argument that questioning the official story is somehow insulting to the victims' families: The families WANT this conflicting information public!
 
Re: 911 WAS an inside job.

Congratulations. You've hitched your star and found a part of that 10 percent that couldn't handle the riggers of combat and was "Honorably" discharged for it. There are representations of these kind of people that go all the way back to the Civil War. Some people don't realize what combat really means until it is too late. For every one of him, there are 20,000 of me. I would think that people like you would have learned a lesson about rallying behind the miserly minority. After all, it didn't work for Kerry.

Not trusting, and sometimes shooting, an Iraqi soldier that had his hands up is the consequence some of them payed for their fellow soldier's lack of honor and failure to follow Geneva Convention Law. The law states that a combatant who is surrendering ceases to be a combatant and becomes a POW. This is to allow as much humanity as possible and attempt to minimize unnecessary death. However, there is no honor amongst rapists, murderers and barbarians. They used this as a tactic to lure Marines out into the open, where upon hidden Iraqi soldiers would pop out and start spraying. This is the other half of the story that you didn't read in the article, but of course, getting all of the facts isn't the liberal's way. Selected facts that further an agenda have always been their talent.

The silence of the Left in the face of uncomfortable truths is a hallowed tradition. The American Left never cared about the Iraqi people until they became American “victims.” As Saddam Hussein slaughtered more Muslims through campaigns of oppression and wars of aggression than any tyrant since Tamerlane, the Left remained silent. Our domestic Left revel endlessly in the excesses of a few renegade guards at Abu Ghraib prison while remaining silent on the industrial-scale massacres of Saddam Hussein-and other terror regimes. The truth is that our Left is so intellectually decrepit, so infected by dishonesty, so morally feeble that it has only breath enough to condemn American actions. No matter how many human beings suffer around the world—starved, ethnically cleansed, raped, tortured, murdered—it doesn’t count unless you can blame America. By refusing to hold Middle Eastern civilization to reasonable standards of behavior and responsibility, our domestic Left give new life every day to terrorist everywhere. But rallying for terrorist rights isn't enough for some. Some would go as far as to blame the real 9/11 attack on their own government.


I have seen the enemy. It is not our government. Maybe one day you will come to an enlightenment and realize that there is no "boogeymen" in our government out to get you. The shame of this enlightenment will be that you'll probably, actually, be dissapointed.

Long live Lockness.
 
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Re: 911 WAS an inside job.

You gotta feel sorry for guys like you, Gunny. When all else fails, you start throwing out the L word, "liberal." Yes, what a convenient excuse for ignoring uncomfortable information you don't want to hear. Just say it came from a "liberal", and therefore can be discounted. Now you can go back to sleep and blindly trust whatever your loving gov't propaganda machine tells you.

Er, but Gunny, there's just one problem with that. You see, most of the facts I'm giving you are facts I first received from conservative Christians. REAL conservatives. REAL Christians. REAL Patriots. Unlike the globalist neo-cons you so adore and are so happy to serve in their bloodthirsty un-American agenda.

Even after I gave you that insider quote about Dems and Repubs serving the same elitist masters, you still want to fall back on the tired old "liberal" epithet. Not realizing that the whole time, you're playing right into their hands. It's called Divide & Conquer. And as you have unintentionally shown, it's a brilliant strategy. Here's how it works: When a Dem is in office, all legitimate criticisms of him can be dismissed as "conservative bias" and ignored. When a Repub is in office, all legitimate criticisms of him can be dismissed as "liberal bias" and ignored. Thus, both parties can literally get away with murder & the American public is none the wiser. Get it? Left/Right is a false paradigm used to keep us ignorantly divided into equally useless camps. Meanwhile, up at the top, they're working hand in hand to serve the same criminal agenda while they give lip service to us. Like I said before, just follow the money (instead of blindly parroting neo-con talking points) and you'll see that I'm right.
 
Re: 911 WAS an inside job.

I bet you believe Bush is a Christian, don't you, Gunny?
You'd be wise to look into the background of neo-con ideology and how it's actually antithetical to genuine traditional American conservatism.
Here's a start:


"Many neoconservatives like Paul Wolfowitz are disciples of a philosopher who believed that the elite should use deception, religious fervor and perpetual war to control the ignorant masses. "

"Leo Strauss was born and educated in Germany, relocated to the UK in 1934, then emigrated to the U.S. in 1937. After lecturing for several years at the New School for Social Research in New York, in 1948 he accepted a post at the University of Chicago, where he spent most of the rest of his career. A charismatic teacher, he attracted a coterie of brilliant students, many of whom became prominent neoconservative thinkers and polemicists; a sizable number of Strauss devotees have served in Republican administrations, starting with Reagan and continuing through Bushes I and II. (Abram Shulsky works for the Office of Special Plans, currently under fire for cherry-picking intelligence during the buildup to the Iraq war. And maybe the name Paul Wolfowitz rings a bell?) Strauss's best-known protege is probably Allan Bloom, author of a best-selling critique of U.S. higher education, The Closing of the American Mind (1987)."

Strauss also took a bizzare interest in ancient esoteric texts.

His philosophy can be summed up in 3 major principles:

Rule One: Deception

It's hardly surprising then why Strauss is so popular in an administration obsessed with secrecy, especially when it comes to matters of foreign policy. Not only did Strauss have few qualms about using deception in politics, he saw it as a necessity. While professing deep respect for American democracy, Strauss believed that societies should be hierarchical ? divided between an elite who should lead, and the masses who should follow. But unlike fellow elitists like Plato, he was less concerned with the moral character of these leaders. According to Shadia Drury, who teaches politics at the University of Calgary, Strauss believed that "those who are fit to rule are those who realize there is no morality and that there is only one natural right ? the right of the superior to rule over the inferior."

This dichotomy requires "perpetual deception" between the rulers and the ruled, according to Drury. Robert Locke, another Strauss analyst says,"The people are told what they need to know and no more." While the elite few are capable of absorbing the absence of any moral truth, Strauss thought, the masses could not cope. If exposed to the absence of absolute truth, they would quickly fall into nihilism or anarchy, according to Drury, author of 'Leo Strauss and the American Right' (St. Martin's 1999).

Second Principle: Power of Religion

According to Drury, Strauss had a "huge contempt" for secular democracy. Nazism, he believed, was a nihilistic reaction to the irreligious and liberal nature of the Weimar Republic. Among other neoconservatives, Irving Kristol has long argued for a much greater role for religion in the public sphere, even suggesting that the Founding Fathers of the American Republic made a major mistake by insisting on the separation of church and state. And why? Because Strauss viewed religion as absolutely essential in order to impose moral law on the masses who otherwise would be out of control.

At the same time, he stressed that religion was for the masses alone; the rulers need not be bound by it. Indeed, it would be absurd if they were, since the truths proclaimed by religion were "a pious fraud." As Ronald Bailey, science correspondent for Reason magazine points out, "Neoconservatives are pro-religion even though they themselves may not be believers."

"Secular society in their view is the worst possible thing,'' Drury says, because it leads to individualism, liberalism, and relativism, precisely those traits that may promote dissent that in turn could dangerously weaken society's ability to cope with external threats. Bailey argues that it is this firm belief in the political utility of religion as an "opiate of the masses" that helps explain why secular Jews like Kristol in 'Commentary' magazine and other neoconservative journals have allied themselves with the Christian Right and even taken on Darwin's theory of evolution.

Third Principle: Aggressive Nationalism

Like Thomas Hobbes, Strauss believed that the inherently aggressive nature of human beings could only be restrained by a powerful nationalistic state. "Because mankind is intrinsically wicked, he has to be governed," he once wrote. "Such governance can only be established, however, when men are united ? and they can only be united against other people."

Not surprisingly, Strauss' attitude toward foreign policy was distinctly Machiavellian. "Strauss thinks that a political order can be stable only if it is united by an external threat," Drury wrote in her book. "Following Machiavelli, he maintained that if no external threat exists then ONE HAS TO BE MANUFACTURED (emphases added)." (i.e. - 9/11)

"Perpetual war, not perpetual peace, is what Straussians believe in," says Drury. The idea easily translates into, in her words, an "aggressive, belligerent foreign policy," of the kind that has been advocated by neocon groups like PNAC and AEI scholars, not to mention Wolfowitz and other administration hawks who have called for a world order dominated by U.S. military power. Strauss' neoconservative students see foreign policy as a means to fulfill a "national destiny" ? as Irving Kristol defined it already in 1983 ? that goes far beyond the narrow confines of a " myopic national security."

As to what a Straussian world order might look like, the analogy was best captured by the philosopher himself in one of his and student Allen Bloom's many allusions to Gulliver's Travels. In Drury's words, "When Lilliput was on fire, Gulliver urinated over the city, including the palace. In so doing, he saved all of Lilliput from catastrophe, but the Lilliputians were outraged and appalled by such a show of disrespect."

The image encapsulates the neoconservative vision of the United States' relationship with the rest of the world as well as the relationship between their relationship as a ruling elite with the masses. "They really have no use for liberalism and democracy, but they're conquering the world in the name of liberalism and democracy," Drury says.

-------

We live in crazy times, these principals have not been exaggerated, this is what he taught, and this is what Bush's followers in the white house study, respect and live by. A kind "tough love" like policy of political ideology.

http://www.alternet.org/story/15935
http://www.straightdope.com/columns/031212.html
 
Re: 911 WAS an inside job.

1) Ultra leftists are just as bad ultra rightest.

2) I don't really care what someone's religion is except for the ones that would slash your throat in the name of their God. To protect you from that, I will pull my trigger. Of course that's just my silly notion of being a true American.....and yes, before you say it, you do have the right to pervert your freedoms. I ensure that.

3) Facts and heresay go hand in hand. For further in instruction...see Micheal Moore.

4) The situation in Iraq is far more complex than I can describe here. But a few things are clear. The United States throughout its history has been the world's most positive force for change, all the while, being the subject of terrorist atacks since the 1950's. We in no way provoked these people, unless you see the backing of another nation's right to exist as being wrong. To get at the roots of terrorism, the Middle East must choose greater fairness, greater freedom, improved education — and an end to bigotry masquerading as religion. That's what the attempted reformation of Iraq is all about. That's what it's always been about for those of us on the ground that have been dealing with these people for so many years. All it takes is to exercise a sense of vision. Diplomacy failed a long time ago. After 50 years, we have resorted to force. Someone had to jump-start change. No one else was going to do it, because no one else cares about it's citizens like America does. We've done virtually all we can do without the help of so many high and mighty "allies" that would rather receive aid than give it. If the Arab world can't embrace change, there will be no end to terrorism in our lifetimes. Can't you see this? Isn't this hard enough without blaming every loose screw in the towers on our government? I believe President Clinton weakened our security against terrorism, but I wouldn't go as far as to say that he maliciously did it....and we hated President Clinton.

I believe, whole-heartedly, that you believe the things that you have written. That's what makes you dangerous. What you don't or refuse to see, is that instead of nobley voicing against the tyranny of war, you are voicing the preservation of what we are trying to destroy. I don't know you...but attitudes like yours always hide under the guise of "peace". What you really are saying is that as long it doesn't affect you...rape, murder, kidnapping, torture, hostage taking, skyjacking, beheading,....etc. is O.K. This has to be true, because it was only after America finally struck back that the liberals began to march against the "tragedy" of war. Any tragedy before that was O.K. The grand leaders of Islamist perversion count on your attitudes for their survival.

I do not feel sorry for you, because I know you don't understand. Thank God, there are others that do.


PS...TEACHER, I FIND YOUR COMMENT ON THE TIN FOIL HAT, WRECKLESS AND PREPOSTRIOUS. IT IS COMMON KNOWLEDGE THAT CLOSETS OBSTRUCT CONSPIRACY WAVES. FOR A BETTER CONNECTION, GO OUTSIDE AND STAND ON YOUR HEAD.
 
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Re: 911 WAS an inside job.

alan said:
Teach (and all those on this forum who buy the gov't's lie):

Please read this. This is from an expert from the very company that certified the WTC's steel:


http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20041112144051451

And to Pacridge & anyone else repeating the tired and ridiculous argument that questioning the official story is somehow insulting to the victims' families: The families WANT this conflicting information public!

Really? Every time I've seen any interview with any family member they've made statements that this BS is completely insulting to them and their loss. I agree with them.
 
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Re: 911 WAS an inside job.

All the more popular conspiracy theories blogged all over th enet have been long since debunked by Popular Science.

Must have been those unmarked UN black helicopters flying in silent mode hovering over the grassy knoll by the book respository after having left Area 51.
 
Re: 911 WAS an inside job.

alan said:
Teach (and all those on this forum who buy the gov't's lie):

Please read this. This is from an expert from the very company that certified the WTC's steel:


http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20041112144051451

This guy Gary Ryan is an employee but on this site not representing Underwriters Laboratory. UL. I've had to comply with UL specifications installing fire alarms in hospitals and burglar alarms in banks. UL is tight. So this GUY who works at UL by him self quotes some other GUY who says the temperature inside the towers did not exceed 500 degrees Fahrenheit. Think about it Alan. Can you look yourself in the mirror and say those fires were no hotter than your oven when your cooking a pizza? The core to face trusses were stripped of their fire retardant. Two 3/4" bolts secured truss to core collum. Two 5/8" bolts secured the truss to exterior collum. Sagging trusses exceeded the shear strength of the 5/8" bolts. Done. What friggin part of that don't you understand. This Gary Ryan is just some dumb ass who wrote someone a letter that got posted on foil hats-r-us web site. (worn outside upsidedown thank you). The question you now have to ask yourself Alan is was the temperature in the towers only 500 degrees Fahrenheit? All our posts have narrowed it down to this question. Well? 500 degrees. Alan? Think now. 500. Brass tack time. Money where your mouth is. 500? For all the marbles. 500. It's that simple. Yes or no. Dare ya. At least biblemark I think it was who first dragged this nonsense by me, had the sense and grace to not keep saying stupid things. You get your info from some guy who works at UL. I get mine (some little tidbits I feed you anyway) is the head architect for the towers. This is the guy whose drawings they went by to build the things. Him vs. some GUY. Alan. Come on. Pull yourself up bro. Cast off the tin foil yoke. Shrug off the weight of paranoia. Join us in the world of science and logic bro. We are here to help you. 500 degrees. Pizza. Think about it. We'll be here for you.
 
Re: 911 WAS an inside job.

All this in the same breath.

naptowntruthseeker said:
. I have never understood why people cannot disagree about something without being condescending and insulting.

and then

In my opinion though you are brainwashed by a controlled mass media, it doesn't make you a bad person, just a controlled person and I feel sorry for you.

At least I admit I'm an asshole. Talk about speaking out of both sides of you mouth. He started a new thread on the same subject. Same BS. Why is this guy trying so hard to turn people against the US? I got my eye on you Junior.
 
Re: 911 WAS an inside job.

Alan.

Since you so like to use links instead of your own brain regarding this tin foil hat conspiracy thing.
A kids site sponsored by the friggin National Fire Protection Agency. http//www.nfpa.org/sparky/ask.html
Sparky the fire dog says.A log fire temp is about 450 degrees. A blue flame gas tip temp is about 2000 degrees. Structural steel loses rigidity around 1000. Hazard an educated guess as to the temp in the towers. Looked hotter than the one you toast marshmallows on to me. Consider the jet fuel, how much was burning at once, and the amount of oxygen feeding the fires through that JETLINER sized whole in the towers. Alan? You too naptown. I ain't gonna let this drivel stand.
 
Re: 911 WAS an inside job.

Libertarian said:
All the more popular conspiracy theories blogged all over th enet have been long since debunked by Popular Science.

Yea, but I enjoy debunking them right here all by myself.

Must have been those unmarked UN black helicopters flying in silent mode hovering over the grassy knoll by the book respository after having left Area 51.

Did you hear Bigfoot rode the lock ness monster more than 8 seconds? Chupacabra gave him a perfect score. Mothman abstained.
 
Re: 911 WAS an inside job.

Teach, GySgt, Pacridge, and every one else on this thread:

TONIGHT, Listen live to a debate among experts:

<http://www.coasttocoastam.com/shows/2005/06/16.html>

2 who say 9-11 was an inside job, 2 who say it wasn't.
Let's see who makes the better case...
 
Re: 911 WAS an inside job.

Art and George. Been listening to coast to coast for years. Tin foil hat HQ. Very entertaining. Thought you said 2 against 2 alan? More like 2 foil hatters, one waffler, and a patsy. I haven't heard any thing from either side that sways me a bit. Good thing I'm not there. I'd tear them a new one. Once again the foil hat crew points to some other outlet and still can't answer me. Alan? 500 degrees? Remember. You haven't shot down any of my points yet. You continue to whine this BS. You don't even try to address my points. I must have posted 10000 words on this subject so far without one solid retort. Come on dude bring it. Islamic fanatics brought those buildings down. What is your problem with that? All the points made on this coast to coast show,(I'm listening now) I've already destroyed. Weak dude weak. 500 degrees alan. 500. Answer the friggin question or go away to area 51 and play gin with the aliens. Quit trying to draw attention from the truth and what must be done. I'm still mad about 911. I will not let your drivel go unbeaten down. I've got my eye on you fellows. I really think it is possible you are the enemy trying to subvert Americans to put pressure on the government. The enemy does do that. Right Gunny? Still odd your first post on this site was against me. Got your attention eh? Now there is a conspiracy theory a man can sink his teeth into. Not half as reticules as your swill. 500 degrees. Well? Science got your tongue?
'
 
Re: 911 WAS an inside job.

Anybody who says 9/11 was an inside job is a sick ****. :damn
Are you on crack. Do you really think our government would do some stupid **** like that. Wake up and use your brain. And no matter how much you hate bush (I don't like him either) it is still ****ing sickening to see people accuse any president of doing something like that. Damn it. You people should watch Penn and Teller's Bullshit on shotime. If you don't have shotime go on their website. People please I beg you get some help for both our sanities 9/11 was a terrorist attack. How blind can you be. :bs :damn
 
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