Sentient alien - human marriages?

[roguenuke]

Okay, so I did ask this in another thread and it seems like a pretty interesting topic to discuss with allusions to how we view marriage.

So, if we found out that there are sentient aliens out there who come to Earth for whatever reasons, would it be okay for them to marry humans legally and what restrictions would you put on them and why.

Trekkies can look at as a Vulcan/human marriage. Or perhaps you prefer Alien Nation point of view, where they have no choice but to be here (since they crashed) and have become citizens themselves of our countries.

Would you insist they be citizens of the country? Would you insist on male/female pairings only? Would you insist they be able to procreate with us? Would you push to make all such relationships illegal?

And for all those who don't believe in aliens, either put aside your disbelief and pretend, or don't comment. The assumption is stated that there are sentient aliens as part of the thread idea and is necessary for progression of the thread.

 

[sawyerloggingon]

Okay, so I did ask this in another thread and it seems like a pretty interesting topic to discuss with allusions to how we view marriage.

So, if we found out that there are sentient aliens out there who come to Earth for whatever reasons, would it be okay for them to marry humans legally and what restrictions would you put on them and why.

Trekkies can look at as a Vulcan/human marriage. Or perhaps you prefer Alien Nation point of view, where they have no choice but to be here (since they crashed) and have become citizens themselves of our countries.

Would you insist they be citizens of the country? Would you insist on male/female pairings only? Would you insist they be able to procreate with us? Would you push to make all such relationships illegal?

And for all those who don't believe in aliens, either put aside your disbelief and pretend, or don't comment. The assumption is stated that there are sentient aliens as part of the thread idea and is necessary for progression of the thread.

Were this day ever to come it would make the current gay marriage debate a foot note in history. I think the issue would go well beyond marriage and be about procreation itself. This would change the human race and create an entirely now species and the genetic implications of this as far as new diseases or syndromes would have to be studied for years. More importantly it would run the risk of creating whole new reasons for prejudice and race superiority issues. I could see riots and even wars over the issue.

 

[roguenuke]

Were this day ever to come it would make the current gay marriage debate a foot note in history. I think the issue would go well beyond marriage and be about procreation itself. This would change the human race and create an entirely now species and the genetic implications of this as far as new diseases or syndromes would have to be studied for years. More importantly it would run the risk of creating whole new reasons for prejudice and race superiority issues. I could see riots and even wars over the issue.

I think there are a lot of good scifi stories/movies/shows on this. But the point is your personal view, not what might happen. It gives insight into the same sex marriage debate itself as to how people answer. Where they stand and why they might truly oppose same sex marriage can be viewed from why they would oppose these types of marriages.

 

[rocket88]

Sure, why not. LOL....

I mean, Barbara Bush married a reptilian, so fine.

 

[Rainman05]

Going on the assumption that you're talking about human-like aliens. Say elves or vulcans (vulcans are basically the elves of sci-fi).
No. that's interspecies marriage regardless of how you look at it. Not only should it not be legal, it cannot happen unless forced or if there is weird f-ed up abstraction. I shall explain.

Your genes are wired to want to procreate, to clone themselves. The way they clone themselves is within a new human being, a baby. So anytime two humans meet, a male and a female, your genes tell you if you should like that human or not, well increase the odds of you liking that human or not.

basically what this means is that... let's say humans have just 10 genes. If 2 people meet, if your 10 genes, 8 see their copies in that other human being of the opposite sex, they'll say: go make a baby... and if the other 2 genes see another gene, not their copy, in the female, they'll say: bad match buddy, don't do it!. Why? because they'll have to compete with the other genes.
Now then there are regressive and dominant genes but that's a different story. So... same genes between a man and a woman -> good, go make babies; different genes between a man and a woman -> Don't make babies. Of course, as presented above, 8/10 > 2/10 which is why they'll go make a baby.

Unless the vulcans have 99% or more of the same genetic material as we do... unless they are 99% human and just 1% or less vulcan, the chances of interspecies procreation is dim from a genetic desire point of view. Why less than 1%? Because within the human species, racial differences can account for 0.2-0.6% of a human genetic code. To put that in perspective, humans and chimps are only 3% apart. Since there is no natural inclination for humans to mate with chimps (diseases like zoophilia not included) then it goes to reason, that anything more than the 0.2-0.6% difference from the human genetic code, we as humans ,will find undesirable as a procreating partner. Let's say 1% for good measure.

So if more than 1%, we won't need common law to tell us that, natural law will do it for us.

 

[sawyerloggingon]

I think there are a lot of good scifi stories/movies/shows on this. But the point is your personal view, not what might happen. It gives insight into the same sex marriage debate itself as to how people answer. Where they stand and why they might truly oppose same sex marriage can be viewed from why they would oppose these types of marriages.

It is such a huge question I honestly can't give an immediate opinion on it, I would have to hear all sides and study the issue a very long time if that day ever came. My knee jerk reaction would be not to mix species from other planets but that could change as data came in. Hey I made a joke but only Trekkies will get it. :lol:

 

[sawyerloggingon]

Going on the assumption that you're talking about human-like aliens. Say elves or vulcans (vulcans are basically the elves of sci-fi).
No. that's interspecies marriage regardless of how you look at it. Not only should it not be legal, it cannot happen unless forced or if there is weird f-ed up abstraction. I shall explain.

Your genes are wired to want to procreate, to clone themselves. The way they clone themselves is within a new human being, a baby. So anytime two humans meet, a male and a female, your genes tell you if you should like that human or not, well increase the odds of you liking that human or not.

basically what this means is that... let's say humans have just 10 genes. If 2 people meet, if your 10 genes, 8 see their copies in that other human being of the opposite sex, they'll say: go make a baby... and if the other 2 genes see another gene, not their copy, in the female, they'll say: bad match buddy, don't do it!. Why? because they'll have to compete with the other genes.
Now then there are regressive and dominant genes but that's a different story. So... same genes between a man and a woman -> good, go make babies; different genes between a man and a woman -> Don't make babies. Of course, as presented above, 8/10 > 2/10 which is why they'll go make a baby.

Unless the vulcans have 99% or more of the same genetic material as we do... unless they are 99% human and just 1% or less vulcan, the chances of interspecies procreation is dim from a genetic desire point of view. Why less than 1%? Because within the human species, racial differences can account for 0.2-0.6% of a human genetic code. To put that in perspective, humans and chimps are only 3% apart. Since there is no natural inclination for humans to mate with chimps (diseases like zoophilia not included) then it goes to reason, that anything more than the 0.2-0.6% difference from the human genetic code, we as humans ,will find undesirable as a procreating partner. Let's say 1% for good measure.

So if more than 1%, we won't need common law to tell us that, natural law will do it for us.

This is a philosophical debate not a scientific one.

 

[roguenuke]

Going on the assumption that you're talking about human-like aliens. Say elves or vulcans (vulcans are basically the elves of sci-fi).
No. that's interspecies marriage regardless of how you look at it. Not only should it not be legal, it cannot happen unless forced or if there is weird f-ed up abstraction. I shall explain.

Your genes are wired to want to procreate, to clone themselves. The way they clone themselves is within a new human being, a baby. So anytime two humans meet, a male and a female, your genes tell you if you should like that human or not, well increase the odds of you liking that human or not.

basically what this means is that... let's say humans have just 10 genes. If 2 people meet, if your 10 genes, 8 see their copies in that other human being of the opposite sex, they'll say: go make a baby... and if the other 2 genes see another gene, not their copy, in the female, they'll say: bad match buddy, don't do it!. Why? because they'll have to compete with the other genes.
Now then there are regressive and dominant genes but that's a different story. So... same genes between a man and a woman -> good, go make babies; different genes between a man and a woman -> Don't make babies. Of course, as presented above, 8/10 > 2/10 which is why they'll go make a baby.

Unless the vulcans have 99% or more of the same genetic material as we do... unless they are 99% human and just 1% or less vulcan, the chances of interspecies procreation is dim from a genetic desire point of view. Why less than 1%? Because within the human species, racial differences can account for 0.2-0.6% of a human genetic code. To put that in perspective, humans and chimps are only 3% apart. Since there is no natural inclination for humans to mate with chimps (diseases like zoophilia not included) then it goes to reason, that anything more than the 0.2-0.6% difference from the human genetic code, we as humans ,will find undesirable as a procreating partner. Let's say 1% for good measure.

That is a horribly scientific view of life. Our genes base attraction on a lot of things. So unless Vulcans truly couldn't stand the smell of humans, or us them, then it is not logical to believe that our "genes" would truly care about what species that sentient life form is. It is sentient life. We could communicate with them (and if there was even a question of marriage, you can bet communication was going on somehow). They are obviously a good deal like us. They may share very few genetic similarities with us at all (although if they look similar, it is very likely that they share a number of genetic similarities), but our genes don't actually know that. Our genes are just what make us, us.

 

[roguenuke]

It is such a huge question I honestly can't give an immediate opinion on it, I would have to hear all sides and study the issue a very long time if that day ever came. My knee jerk reaction would be not to mix species from other planets but that could change as data came in. Hey I made a joke but only Trekkies will get it. :lol:

My husband got me into Enterprise. Does this mean you would join Terra Prime or a similar group?

 

[Van Basten]

Not that I think Aliens will ever be a reality, but sure, go ahead. I'm assuming it will be humanoid aliens, since I don't think anyone's interested in someone like Jabba the Hutt lol.

It's an interesting question, no doubt. I can't immediately see an issue with it.

 

[TacticalEvilDan]

Not only should it not be legal, it cannot happen unless forced or if there is weird f-ed up abstraction.

Right, because people who have a thing for having sex with animals are ... forcing themselves?

Your genes are wired to want to procreate, to clone themselves. The way they clone themselves is within a new human being, a baby.

We defy that programming all the time -- like couples who decide not to have kids.

 

[sawyerloggingon]

My husband got me into Enterprise. Does this mean you would join Terra Prime or a similar group?

LMAO, you really are a Trekie!

 

[Gipper]

I'll remain opposed to it until I find a female alien whose titties produced beer.

That I'd marry in a heartbeat.

 

[Rainman05]

That is a horribly scientific view of life. Our genes base attraction on a lot of things. So unless Vulcans truly couldn't stand the smell of humans, or us them, then it is not logical to believe that our "genes" would truly care about what species that sentient life form is. It is sentient life. We could communicate with them (and if there was even a question of marriage, you can bet communication was going on somehow). They are obviously a good deal like us. They may share very few genetic similarities with us at all (although if they look similar, it is very likely that they share a number of genetic similarities), but our genes don't actually know that. Our genes are just what make us, us.

Sentient life is fine and dandy, but it's based on complex genetics.

Did you ever get that tingling feeling when looking at someone that you two would be great together? Those are your genes "speaking". Your subconscious processes everything you observe in a person, even if your conscious mind can't analyze everything or doesn't get, the 90% of your brain that works behind the curtains does.

Now of course. Genes aren't the be all end all of the complex set of rules that make us who we are and make us behave the way we do and feel what we do and think what we do. But if we do start getting into all those things we won't finish till next easter.

This is a philosophical debate not a scientific one.

Well you made in the Polls section.

Right, because people who have a thing for having sex with animals are ... forcing themselves?

We defy that programming all the time -- like couples who decide not to have kids.

Of course.
It's like the Parkinsons' gene or Huntings or whatever other genetic diseases people have. Just because you have that gene, doesn't mean it will ever trigger or that it will control your life.

As I said just above: Genes aren't the be all end all of the complex set of rules that make us who we are and make us behave the way we do and feel what we do and think what we do

 

[sawyerloggingon]

I'll remain opposed to it until I find a female alien whose titties produced beer.

That I'd marry in a heartbeat.

We have humans who's stomach produces beer, get one of those.

 

[Gipper]

We have humans who's stomach produces beer, get one of those.

It's not as much fun to suck on a woman's stomach.

 

[Jerry]

Okay, so I did ask this in another thread and it seems like a pretty interesting topic to discuss with allusions to how we view marriage.

So, if we found out that there are sentient aliens out there who come to Earth for whatever reasons, would it be okay for them to marry humans legally and what restrictions would you put on them and why.

Trekkies can look at as a Vulcan/human marriage. Or perhaps you prefer Alien Nation point of view, where they have no choice but to be here (since they crashed) and have become citizens themselves of our countries.

Would you insist they be citizens of the country? Would you insist on male/female pairings only? Would you insist they be able to procreate with us? Would you push to make all such relationships illegal?

And for all those who don't believe in aliens, either put aside your disbelief and pretend, or don't comment. The assumption is stated that there are sentient aliens as part of the thread idea and is necessary for progression of the thread.

Last time it resulted in offspring who ate everything in site and started to eat humans.

So I would say no.

 

[sawyerloggingon]

It's not as much fun to suck on a woman's stomach.

That's debatable.:lol:

 

[TacticalEvilDan]

It's like the Parkinsons' gene or Huntings or whatever other genetic diseases people have. Just because you have that gene, doesn't mean it will ever trigger or that it will control your life.

As I said just above: Genes aren't the be all end all of the complex set of rules that make us who we are and make us behave the way we do and feel what we do and think what we do

That's reasonable, but that's also a very different position than the one you took earlier. Just saying.

 

[RabidAlpaca]

Okay, so I did ask this in another thread and it seems like a pretty interesting topic to discuss with allusions to how we view marriage.

So, if we found out that there are sentient aliens out there who come to Earth for whatever reasons, would it be okay for them to marry humans legally and what restrictions would you put on them and why.

Trekkies can look at as a Vulcan/human marriage. Or perhaps you prefer Alien Nation point of view, where they have no choice but to be here (since they crashed) and have become citizens themselves of our countries.

Would you insist they be citizens of the country? Would you insist on male/female pairings only? Would you insist they be able to procreate with us? Would you push to make all such relationships illegal?

And for all those who don't believe in aliens, either put aside your disbelief and pretend, or don't comment. The assumption is stated that there are sentient aliens as part of the thread idea and is necessary for progression of the thread.

Hell no, marriage was designed to be between two HUMANS, anything else would be redefining it! If we start marrying aliens what's next? Marrying nebulas?

 

[Rainman05]

That's reasonable, but that's also a very different position than the one you took earlier. Just saying.

It's actually not very different all. It's the same opinion enlarged.

Everything I said is perfectly valid.

 

[RabidAlpaca]

Sentient life is fine and dandy, but it's based on complex genetics.

Did you ever get that tingling feeling when looking at someone that you two would be great together? Those are your genes "speaking". Your subconscious processes everything you observe in a person, even if your conscious mind can't analyze everything or doesn't get, the 90% of your brain that works behind the curtains does.

Now of course. Genes aren't the be all end all of the complex set of rules that make us who we are and make us behave the way we do and feel what we do and think what we do. But if we do start getting into all those things we won't finish till next easter.



Well you made in the Polls section.



Of course.
It's like the Parkinsons' gene or Huntings or whatever other genetic diseases people have. Just because you have that gene, doesn't mean it will ever trigger or that it will control your life.

As I said just above: Genes aren't the be all end all of the complex set of rules that make us who we are and make us behave the way we do and feel what we do and think what we do

I dunno bro.

Handlebars anyone?

 

[Rainman05]

I dunno bro.

Handlebars anyone?

<misogyny>
I think she'd be great in the kitchen for making toast...
</misogyny>

 

[roguenuke]

LMAO, you really are a Trekie!

Oh, I got into Star Trek with TNG, and liked DS9 as well. Not a big fan of the original, and hated Voyager.

The Terra Prime episodes were great and sad. They actually brought to light that it could have been difficult, at least at one time, for aliens and humans to have a child and take actual genetic manipulation to accomplish. But given that we have genetic manipulation now, then it isn't too difficult to believe that we could do it if that was an issue with any sentient, humanoid aliens we did meet in the future. It wouldn't be completely impossible.

But I love sci-fi/fantasy stuff. Even as a child, I watched Alien Nation with my mom. I liked that show, despite how dark it could be (it had sci-fi, and my other fav show type, cop drama in one).

 

[earthworm]

other
Who the hell are we to be telling others what they can do and can not do ??????????
As long as no-one suffers, particularly the children............
which makes me think a little.......
The we includes our government...
Of course, churches should NOT be forced to do this...

The option "not OK at all" , this IMO, removes the thought process , is too absolute...