Senate votes to fund the fence [title changed]

[Little-Acorn]

The bad news is, the Senate is a hollow shell of its formers self, responding willy-nilly to public pressure instead of voting according to the interests of each Senator's state and state government as per their original design.

The good news is, this time public pressure got it right.

-----------------------------

http://washingtontimes.com/national/20060803-121451-9430r.htm

Senate votes to fund the fence

By Stephen Dinan and Brian DeBose
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
August 3, 2006

The Senate did an abrupt about-face yesterday, voting overwhelmingly to begin paying for 370 miles of fencing and 500 miles of vehicle barriers on the U.S.-Mexico border, just three weeks after voting against the same spending.

The amendment's sponsor said senators were so embarrassed by that July 13 vote that most felt they had to reverse course and vote for it this time -- especially after so many were on record in May voting to build the fence in the first place. The amendment, which provides nearly $2 billion for the project, passed 94-3, with 66 senators switching from "no" to "yes" votes since last month.

"I think people wanted to get right," said Sen. Jeff Sessions, Alabama Republican. "People heard from their constituents after they voted to authorize the fence in May and then voted against funding it a couple of weeks ago."

The fence has become one of the flash points as Congress and President Bush try to craft a new immigration enforcement policy this year piece by piece.


(Full text of the article can be read at the above URL)

 

[Goobieman]

Re: Senate does a 180, votes 94-3 to fund border fence

The bad news is, the Senate is a hollow shell of its formers self, responding willy-nilly to public pressure instead of voting according to the interests of each Senator's state and state government as per their original design.

Thank you, 17th amendment. :roll:

I cannot understand how the states would willingly give up their direct representation in the federal government.

 

[easyt65]

Re: Senate does a 180, votes 94-3 to fund border fence

From everything I have seen, many of the states along the SWern border have either declared a Natl. Emergency or are considering it over the influx of illegal Aliens. They do not have the money to do the Federal Goverment's job of protecting/guarding our borders from invasion, which is what is going on. You can't call it much else when millions of illegal immigrants are now in our country with more crossing every day, when the Mexican goverment is assisting their populace to enter illegally instead of recognizing and respecting our sovereign border, and when the Mexican military is committing an act of war by escorting drug dealers/shipments across our border and firing on border guards!

Americans want the borders closed, so I would not say that the Congress actually submitting to the will of the people they are there to represent is responding willy-nilly to public pressure!

The only evidence to support your claim that the Senate (and goverment in Washington as a whole) is a hollow shell of its formers self is in the fact that they willy-nilly passed new legislation designed to appease and shut up the American people over our Illegal Immigration problem. No new legislation was required to begin with! What we really need to do is close the borders to stop the influx of new Illegals (sort of like fixing the roof in a rainstorm before you start worrying about how to get all the water out of your house) and to enforce the existing laws against hiring illegal aliens.

People have asked, "What are we going to do, round them all up and deport them?"
- Don't have to! Enforce the laws by punishing the companies who are hiring them. Fine them heavily, padlock their doors, and/or then confiscate their property/machinery/etc. take away the jobs, and the illegals will have no reason to come here.
- Pass legislation barring banks and financial institutions from loaning illegals money, preventing realtors from selling them land/houses, as that would mean they are guilty of doing business with criminals.
- Pass legislation that prevents illegals from coming across the border, having a baby in our country, and then the baby being given citizenship status. A criminal coming across our border and having a kid should be no grounds for citizenship! We are talking about the offspring of a criminal who broke the law who used that offspring as a tool with which to get FREE tax payer dollars and citizenship status. If you are here legally, on a visa, etc and have a baby then maybe....but the law should not apply to those who break the law to get here just to drop a baby, using it for their benefit!

Instead, Congress passes that stupid legislation designed, as I said, just to shut the American people up. I give the American people more credit, though - I honestly didn't think anyone would be paying attention to the fact that the only part of that bill that was budgeted for was the FREE amnesty idea that it included! that they were awake, paid attention, and then called Congress on it gives me hope that people aren't as much sheep as i thought they were!

 

[danarhea]

Re: Senate does a 180, votes 94-3 to fund border fence

What the Senate is now doing is exactly what Pat Buchanan had on his platform when he ran for president in 2000. Its one of the reasons I voted for him. Of course, Bush and Gore both called him an extremist. Buchanan is not looking like an extremist now, is he? Of course, Buchanan is a real Conservative too, not a donkey in an elephant suit.

 

[DeeJayH]

Re: Senate does a 180, votes 94-3 to fund border fence

The bad news is, the Senate is a hollow shell of its formers self, responding willy-nilly to public pressure instead of voting according to the interests of each Senator's state and state government as per their original design.

how can you see national security as NOT in every states best interest?

 

[Little-Acorn]

Re: Senate does a 180, votes 94-3 to fund border fence

how can you see national security as NOT in every states best interest?

Who are you asking?

 

[Kandahar]

Re: Senate does a 180, votes 94-3 to fund border fence

You guys are xenophobic fools. What exactly is the harm in the current amount of illegal immigration? The United States has been absorbing huge amounts of immigrants for nearly its entire history (except the Great Depression), and we haven't run out of jobs yet. What makes you think we're all of a sudden going to reach that point? Immigrants are more likely than citizens to start their own business, thus creating even more jobs.

Our economy is nothing without a huge number of immigrants. And if our government won't increase the amount of legal immigration allowed to a realistic level, it's best if they don't enforce (or weakly enforce) laws against illegal immigration.

 

[Stace]

Moderator's Warning:

Please read the Guidelines and Rules for posting in the *Breaking News* forum: 2. The title of every post must be identical to the title of the news story headline. This is important as it helps to avoid multiple topics about an issue, while starting discussions out on a more neutral basis. If a story is titled "Rice Negotiates With UN about Iran Nukes," then that should be the title of your thread, not "Warmongers Lie to try to Start WWIII" or "Condi Stands up to Euro-Wusses."

 

[Deegan]

Moderator's Warning:

Please read the Guidelines and Rules for posting in the *Breaking News* forum: 2. The title of every post must be identical to the title of the news story headline. This is important as it helps to avoid multiple topics about an issue, while starting discussions out on a more neutral basis. If a story is titled "Rice Negotiates With UN about Iran Nukes," then that should be the title of your thread, not "Warmongers Lie to try to Start WWIII" or "Condi Stands up to Euro-Wusses."

Ever notice this is all you guys do?

Dumb rule, and goes against the need to be creative.:roll:

 

[Caine]

Ever notice this is all you guys do?

Dumb rule, and goes against the need to be creative.:roll:

Wahh?
Boo-Hoo?

Is it your goal to go around intentionally arguing with the mods over rules?

 

[Deegan]

Wahh?
Boo-Hoo?

Is it your goal to go around intentionally arguing with the mods over rules?

No, only those who insult our intelligence, and this rule does that.

I can go in to it further, but don't want to distract from an important topic. Still, I just felt the need to express that, as this is the ideal time, when you first see it, wouldn't you agree.

Feel free to discuss it, or not, just an observation really.

 

[jamesrage]

The bad news is, the Senate is a hollow shell of its formers self, responding willy-nilly to public pressure instead of voting according to the interests of each Senator's state and state government as per their original design.

The good news is, this time public pressure got it right.

-----------------------------

http://washingtontimes.com/national/20060803-121451-9430r.htm

Senate votes to fund the fence

By Stephen Dinan and Brian DeBose
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
August 3, 2006

The Senate did an abrupt about-face yesterday, voting overwhelmingly to begin paying for 370 miles of fencing and 500 miles of vehicle barriers on the U.S.-Mexico border, just three weeks after voting against the same spending.

The amendment's sponsor said senators were so embarrassed by that July 13 vote that most felt they had to reverse course and vote for it this time -- especially after so many were on record in May voting to build the fence in the first place. The amendment, which provides nearly $2 billion for the project, passed 94-3, with 66 senators switching from "no" to "yes" votes since last month.

"I think people wanted to get right," said Sen. Jeff Sessions, Alabama Republican. "People heard from their constituents after they voted to authorize the fence in May and then voted against funding it a couple of weeks ago."

The fence has become one of the flash points as Congress and President Bush try to craft a new immigration enforcement policy this year piece by piece.


(Full text of the article can be read at the above URL)

A fence is much better than nothing at all.Although I prefere a huge wall on the border,because it is easy to tear a fence down and border patroll can be reduced on the whim of a politician. A wall however will still be costly to remove which will not be easy to remove on the whim of a politician.

 

[doughgirl]

Kandahar said,
“You guys are xenophobic fools. What exactly is the harm in the current amount of illegal immigration? The United States has been absorbing huge amounts of immigrants for nearly its entire history (except the Great Depression), and we haven't run out of jobs yet. What makes you think we're all of a sudden going to reach that point? Immigrants are more likely than citizens to start their own business, thus creating even more jobs.

Our economy is nothing without a huge number of immigrants. And if our government won't increase the amount of legal immigration allowed to a realistic level, it's best if they don't enforce (or weakly enforce) laws against illegal immigration.”

What is the harm you say?


First of all we are a nation of laws that we ALL are expected to follow. And if we do not follow them then consequences happen. Most likely if you break a law you pay for it with jail time or fines. You suggest that we do nothing to a large segment of the population for breaking laws. In fact you want to reward them. I’m all for legal immigration…. But people who are here illegally and know full well that they are here illegally should simply not get the same rights as any other citizen, (no drivers license and no voting in elections).

I’m surious, do you live in a border state? I do and most the people I talk to are in favor of a wall or some sort of border patrol.

The harm………check out these sites,

Crime….
http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/text/crimevictims.html


"The U.S. Justice Department estimated that 270,000 illegal immigrants served jail time nationally in 2003. Of those, 108,000 were in California. Some estimates show illegals now make up half of California's prison population, creating a massive criminal subculture that strains state budgets and creates a nightmare for local police forces."
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2006/3/27/114208.shtml


They strain the health care system……
http://www.ncpa.org/iss/imm/2003/pd032103e.html

Strain on our school systems…
http://immigration.about.com/od/ussocialeconomicissues/i/EduIllegalIss.htm

Illegal aliens cost California billions, Jerry Seper (Washington Times)
”Illegal immigration costs the taxpayers of California — which has the highest number of illegal aliens nationwide — $10.5 billion a year for education, health care and incarceration, according to a study released yesterday.
A key finding of the report by the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR) said the state's already struggling kindergarten-through-12th-grade education system spends $7.7 billion a year on children of illegal aliens, who constitute 15 percent of the student body.”
http://www.washingtontimes.com/national/20041206-102115-6766r.htm

“A study made by the U.S.-Mexico Border Counties Coalition, an American lobbying group, found that U.S. hospitals in border states provide at least $200 million a year in uncompensated emergency care to illegal aliens. In the four border states, 77 hospitals now face a medical emergency.”
http://www.eagleforum.org/psr/2003/feb03/psrfeb03.shtml


Illegal immigration is a problem. IMO its the number one problem in America today thats affecting our national security and the federal government is totally to blame. They have allowed known terrorists, murderers, and criminals into the country that have cost many citizens their lives. They have put these criminal aliens rights over our safety.

Its a mess.

 

[Stace]

Ever notice this is all you guys do?

Dumb rule, and goes against the need to be creative.:roll:

There's a lot that we do that you don't see.

The whole purpose of this rule is to try and prevent people from starting 5 different threads all on the same subject. Ever since we implemented this rule, the number of duplicate threads has decreased dramatically.

Which equals a much better experience for all, as you can follow one topic on...*gasp*...one thread.

 

[taxedout]

Re: Senate does a 180, votes 94-3 to fund border fence

You guys are xenophobic fools. What exactly is the harm in the current amount of illegal immigration? The United States has been absorbing huge amounts of immigrants for nearly its entire history (except the Great Depression), and we haven't run out of jobs yet. What makes you think we're all of a sudden going to reach that point? Immigrants are more likely than citizens to start their own business, thus creating even more jobs.

Our economy is nothing without a huge number of immigrants. And if our government won't increase the amount of legal immigration allowed to a realistic level, it's best if they don't enforce (or weakly enforce) laws against illegal immigration.

The economy will not crumble without Illegals.
Just another lie from the global collectivists, that you seem to be swallowing.
You even have the globalist approved "xenophobe" down pat.

 

[DeeJayH]

Re: Senate does a 180, votes 94-3 to fund border fence

Who are you asking?

since i quoted you, i am asking you

 

[TheNextEra]

Re: Senate does a 180, votes 94-3 to fund border fence

A fence is going to be nothing but a waste of time. The problem isn't that they get over here, the problem is what WE do for them once they do get here illegally.

If they received no job benefits, no anchor baby status, no health care, no education benefits, no voting rights, no driver licenses and we /GASP actually enforce deportation policies, they wouldn't want to come here illegaly.

Putting a 1-inch band-aid on a 6 inch blood gushing wound is not going to fix the problem. The problem is internal and that is the part that needs addressed. Not some f**ing wall.

 

[Little-Acorn]

Re: Senate does a 180, votes 94-3 to fund border fence

since i quoted you, i am asking you

You asked why I believed something I didn't believe.

Care to rephrase the question to include reality?

 

[DeeJayH]

Re: Senate does a 180, votes 94-3 to fund border fence

You asked why I believed something I didn't believe.

Care to rephrase the question to include reality?

not sure how much clearer and simpler i can word it

you started the thread with:

The bad news is, the Senate is a hollow shell of its formers self, responding willy-nilly to public pressure instead of voting according to the interests of each Senator's state and state government as per their original design.

to which i responded

how can you see national security as NOT in every states best interest?

the fence is not just about keeping out illegal migrant workers.
it is also about national security
a country without secure borders is a country with no security
which is why securing the nations borders would make this a NATIONAL SECURITY ISSUE which is in every states interest
clear enough?
can't wait to see the spin on this reply

 

[Little-Acorn]

Re: Senate does a 180, votes 94-3 to fund border fence

Very good, DeeJay. Now, if only you'd included the next sentence in my post, you'd have found your question already answered and your misconception cleared up, before you even asked it.

 

[DeeJayH]

Re: Senate does a 180, votes 94-3 to fund border fence

Very good, DeeJay. Now, if only you'd included the next sentence in my post, you'd have found your question already answered and your misconception cleared up, before you even asked it.

not at all

 

[doughgirl]

“A fence is going to be nothing but a waste of time. The problem isn't that they get over here, the problem is what WE do for them once they do get here illegally.”

How do you know it would be a waste of time?
And if you lived on a border state you would know that it is a problem when they get over here, because most settle around that area.

“If they received no job benefits, no anchor baby status, no health care, no education benefits, no voting rights, no driver licenses and we /GASP actually enforce deportation policies, they wouldn't want to come here illegaly.”

Your wrong again. Have ya been to Mecixo lately? I do not blame them one bit for wanting to come over here. Mexico is a pit, a huge filthy pit, a cess pool in most areas. Mexico offers its citizens NOTHING.

I just went to Rocky Point a few weeks back and I could not believe the poverty and conditions. Beggers all over the place……..extreme poverty. Most people living without even electricity and water….dead dogs laying all over the place. Small children wandering the streets, none of which were paved.

To be honest after visiting there, if I were a Mexican citizen I’d risk my life to leave the place too.

I own business throughout Arizona. One of my stores is in Casa Grande, so we employ mainly Hispanics, as they make up 95% of the population. A few weeks back, the manager of my store was killed coming back from Mexico. They kept his body for days and days and wouldn’t release it. They finally shipped it home. His young wife was in hysterics when she told my husband that the Mexican authorities returned his body minus all his interior organs. This made headlines in our area as a Phoenix doctor was also killed returning from Mexico. His family still were having problems getting his body released. I can only imagine what they did to it.

I am agaisnt illegal immigration.....on the other hand I do not blame them one bit for trying to come to America.

 

[TheNextEra]

How do you know it would be a waste of time?
And if you lived on a border state you would know that it is a problem when they get over here, because most settle around that area.

Your wrong again. Have ya been to Mecixo lately? I do not blame them one bit for wanting to come over here. Mexico is a pit, a huge filthy pit, a cess pool in most areas. Mexico offers its citizens NOTHING.

I think you just proved my point. If we weren't accepting of them being here (i.e. giving them benefits) they would not want to risk their lives coming here. I never said Mexico was a paradise, but if we are going to keep giving them good benefits for coming over here illegally, a fence is not going to stop it.

As for how do I know a fence would be a waste of time, unless it is a solid cement wall the entire length, anyone with a pair of wire snips can cut through a fence in plenty enough time.

 

[Stace]

Here's an idea...why not just put up a bubble over the entire country, rather like a football stadium? That way, ALL borders would be covered, AND we wouldn't have to worry about people trying to drop in from airplanes, either.

:roll:

And I'm being completely sarcastic, by the way. Just trying to illustrate how darn ridiculous some people get over this topic.

 

[jamesrage]

Here's an idea...why not just put up a bubble over the entire country, rather like a football stadium? That way, ALL borders would be covered, AND we wouldn't have to worry about people trying to drop in from airplanes, either.

:roll:

And I'm being completely sarcastic, by the way. Just trying to illustrate how darn ridiculous some people get over this topic.

So you think securing our border is absurd?