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Senate permits national debt to grow to $9,000,000,000,000

KidRocks

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Can they do that?







http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/03/16/congress.debt.ap/index.html

Senate permits national debt to grow to $9 trillion

WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Senate voted Thursday to allow the national debt to swell to nearly $9 trillion, preventing a first-ever default on U.S. Treasury notes.

The bill passed by a 52-48 vote. The increase to $9 trillion represents about $30,000 for every man, woman and child in the United States. The bill now goes to President Bush for his signature.

The measure allows the government to pay for the war in Iraq and finance Medicare and other big federal programs without raising taxes. It passed hours before the House was expected to approve another $91 billion to fund the war in Iraq and provide more aid to hurricane victims.

The partisan vote also came as the Senate continued debate on a $2.8 trillion budget blueprint for the upcoming fiscal year that would produce a $359 billion deficit for the fiscal year beginning October 1.

The debt limit will increase by $781 billion. It's the fourth such move -- increasing the debt limit by a total of $3 trillion -- since Bush took office five years ago...
 

Simon W. Moon

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deja frickin vu
:unsurprised:
 

Joe

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America is screwed. This will happen again next year if not before. Why not just raise taxes?
 

BWG

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The bill passed by a 52-48 vote.

Joining every single Democrat voting against imposing this financial burden on working Americans were Republicans, Burns (R-MT), Ensign (R-NV), and Coburn (R-OK). :2wave:
 

Iriemon

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Joe said:
America is screwed. This will happen again next year if not before. Why not just raise taxes?
It is not popular to raise taxes. Deferring taxes by borrowing is popular. It would take real courage to either raise taxes or cut spending to have a fiscally responsible budget, like we did in 1999-2000. It is much easier to pander to the electorate and just pass the buck by borrowing away our future. The folks now running our government may be cowardly and incompetent, but they are not stupid.

The sad truth is that, I think, most Americans would rather borrow than pay for what the government is spending now. We had a balanced budget in '00, even one slightly in surplus that was paying down the debt. One candidate ran promising to continuing the economic policies that gave us a balanced budget; the other promised he'd cut our taxes. The people (with a little help from the Supremes) made their choice. They got their tax cuts. Of course, the candidate misled folks a little by promising he could give us tax cuts without deficits, and he (so far) has been about $2.5 trillion off, but he gave people what they wanted.
 

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Iriemon that is a good point it is truly about politics (i.e votes) not our fiscal security.
 
F

FallingPianos

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The sad truth is that, I think, most Americans would rather borrow than pay for what the government is spending now.
how much debt is the average american in now?
 

Iriemon

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star2589 said:
how much debt is the average american in now?
Well, if we take $9 trillion divided by 300 million people = $30,000 for every man woman and child, or $120,000 for a family of four. This indebtness brought to you courtesy of Ron, George and George and the Republican party.
 

Gibberish

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I guess their mindset is "who cares it is only numbers on paper".
 
F

FallingPianos

Iriemon said:
Well, if we take $9 trillion divided by 300 million people = $30,000 for every man woman and child, or $120,000 for a family of four. This indebtness brought to you courtesy of Ron, George and George and the Republican party.
actually I meant other than to the government. credit card debt etc. I was wondering how government spending reflects its peoples spending.
 

Iriemon

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Gibberish said:
I guess their mindset is "who cares it is only numbers on paper".
My guess is their mindset is that they figure most Americans don't know the different between deficit and darvocet, could care less, and if you give 'em a few bucks with a "tax cut" you're in.
 

Goobieman

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BWG said:
The bill passed by a 52-48 vote.

Joining every single Democrat voting against imposing this financial burden on working Americans were Republicans, Burns (R-MT), Ensign (R-NV), and Coburn (R-OK). :2wave:

Lets be honest:
The Dems voted against this because GWB(R) is in office.
Prior to the deficit being something they thought they could score political point on, they didn't give a hoot in hell.
 

scottyz

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When do we payback China?
 

Gibberish

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Goobieman said:
Lets be honest:
The Dems voted against this because GWB(R) is in office.
Prior to the deficit being something they thought they could score political point on, they didn't give a hoot in hell.
:ranton: :rofl
 

tecoyah

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Maybe they should have just covered the rest of this presidential term....you know pushed the limit up a couple extra Trillion....then they wouldnt waste our tax dollars on another vote next year.
 

BWG

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Goobieman said:
Lets be honest:
The Dems voted against this because GWB(R) is in office.
Prior to the deficit being something they thought they could score political point on, they didn't give a hoot in hell.

Be as honest as you wish.

You can only be deceived as long as you're willing. :shrug:
 

KidRocks

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Goobieman said:
Lets be honest:
The Dems voted against this because GWB(R) is in office.
Prior to the deficit being something they thought they could score political point on, they didn't give a hoot in hell.


You sir are a joke!

Under President Clinton the economy was humming, employment was high and Wall St was happy, not to mention the budget was balanced and there was even a huge surplus.

It's true...

PRESIDENT CLINTON: 8 YEARS OF PEACE, PROGRESS, AND PROSPERITY!
 

Gibberish

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Seems all the hardcore conservatives on these boards are conveniently ignoring this thread.
 
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Out of curiosity, is there any historical precedent for such a powerful country to have such a tremendous debt?
 

alphamale

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Gibberish said:
Seems all the hardcore conservatives on these boards are conveniently ignoring this thread.
The deficit comes mostly from entitlements like medicare, and social security, created by liberal democrats. Anyone who thinks Clinton gets credit for the deficit during his term is too stupid to get an "F" on an econ exam. Clinton happened along during the height of the economic boom which started under reagan and continued for 20 years, greatly increasing correspondingly tax revenues, and at the end of the cold war, for which liberals deserve no credit. Clinton also decimated the military (e.g. cutting the number of active army divisions in half).
 

RightinNYC

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KidRocks said:
You sir are a joke!

Under President Clinton the economy was humming, employment was high and Wall St was happy, not to mention the budget was balanced and there was even a huge surplus.

It's true...

PRESIDENT CLINTON: 8 YEARS OF PEACE, PROGRESS, AND PROSPERITY!
There was a huge surplus? While his numbers are nowhere near as bad as Bush's, lets call a spade a spade here.

In 9/1992, the public debt was 4.06 trillion dollars.
In 9/2000, the public debt was 5.67 trillion dollars.

That's a 40% increase over 8 years.

I'm not arguing that it's been any better under Bush (It's been significantly worse, for various reasons), but Clinton wasn't exactly a model of fiscal restraint.
 

Goobieman

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BWG said:
Be as honest as you wish.
You can only be deceived as long as you're willing. :shrug:
Prior to 1/2001, please cite alll of the debt ceiling hikes that the Dems in Congress, in total, voted against.
 

Iriemon

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alphamale said:
The deficit comes mostly from entitlements like medicare, and social security, created by liberal democrats. Anyone who thinks Clinton gets credit for the deficit during his term is too stupid to get an "F" on an econ exam. Clinton happened along during the height of the economic boom which started under reagan and continued for 20 years, greatly increasing correspondingly tax revenues, and at the end of the cold war, for which liberals deserve no credit. Clinton also decimated the military (e.g. cutting the number of active army divisions in half).
How did you do on that econ exam?

A deficit happens when tax revenues coming in are less than expenditures going out. Simple as that.

When Clinton was elected, he and the Democrats had the balls to pass a tax increase in 1993 to pull the country out of the huge deficits he inherited from Reagan and Bush 1. (The budget deficit was $320 billion in 1992). The Republicans opposed that right down the line, it only passed with Gore's pro tem vote in the Senate. The Democrats paid the price for that bit of political courage; they were voted out of control the following year.

Thereafter, Clinton repeatedly thwarted Republicans efforts to slash tax revenues while he was in office. As a result, the government had the revenue base to balance the budget, and actually paid down the debt $100 billion in CY2000. (The budget, measured by the way they do it now (counting social security surplus revenues) was a 236 Billion surplus in 2000).

In 2000, the Republicans got control of the WH, and got their chance to slash taxes. They pandered to the electorate, but tax revenues fell by hundreds of billions of dollars. That, combined with a mistaken war and irresponsible spending, put the Govt in the $600 billion a year operating deficits mode it is in now. And added $2.5 trillion (more than 40%) to the national debt. So far.

As far as the 20 year economic boom, professor, check your history books again as to how the economy did in '91
 

Iriemon

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RightatNYU said:
There was a huge surplus? While his numbers are nowhere near as bad as Bush's, lets call a spade a spade here.

In 9/1992, the public debt was 4.06 trillion dollars.
In 9/2000, the public debt was 5.67 trillion dollars.

That's a 40% increase over 8 years.

I'm not arguing that it's been any better under Bush (It's been significantly worse, for various reasons), but Clinton wasn't exactly a model of fiscal restraint.
It is true the total debt increased $1.6 trillion during Clinton's 8 years in office. But he also inherited a budget that was $320 in deficit -- adding $320 billion a year in debt -- from his predecessor. Had he done no worse than what he got, the debt would have increased 2.5 trillion during his term.

Instead, he and the Democrats had the courage to pass a politically unpopular tax increase to stop the bleeding. Taxes were increased to a top rate of 39%. By the end of Clinton's term, the deficit he inherited had been wiped out, there was a surplus, and the debt was being paid down (it decreased 100 billion in CY 2000).

Bush inherited a budget that was in surplus, yet in short order wiped out the surplus, created huge deficits, and in just 5 years added $2.5 trillion trillion.

Folks can draw their own conclusions about who was the more fiscally responsible and who was irresponsible.

With three years to go, and the Republicans pushing for further tax cuts, there's a good bet that the increased debt will hit a staggering $4 trillion by the time his 8 years are up. Anyone want to take that bet?
 
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Joe said:
America is screwed. This will happen again next year if not before. Why not just raise taxes?
Tax revenues compose the minority of government spending.
Taxes would be need to be more than doubled to keep up with the spending.
The majority of the spending is done with "freshly printed" dollars courtesy of the Federal Reserve. These dollars have no intrinsic value. You and I will pay the price eventually in the form of the hidden tax of inflation. This is how politicians raise our taxes daily without even informing us.
 
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