Senate panel passes bill seeking to curb illegal gun purchases

[Catawba]

I said nothing about gun shows, but was referring to private transactions.

Private sellers sell guns at gun shows in 40 states.

 

[polgara]

Polgara showing your teeth! Well done! And good evening.

I can only be pushed so far.... :2mad: :damn

Good evening, Jack.

 

[Catawba]

How do you prove a straw purchase?

See below:

Undercover stings expose 'gun show loophole' - USATODAY.com

 

[humbolt]

Not always, but we try... eace

...And then I show up, and ruin the whole thing.

 

[AlabamaPaul]

...And then I show up, and ruin the whole thing.

Nah, the more the merrier, and the more interesting as well. Good evening humbolt...

 

[ttwtt78640]

Why?? Why shouldn't straw purchases be made a Federal crime??

It already is a federal crime, but remember that they "lack resources" to prosecute crime - wait for the funding part probably in the form of huge "user fees", and mandatory "registration" for law abiding gun transfers to "pay for" this new BS.

 

[humbolt]

Private sellers sell guns at gun shows in 40 states.

And you know there is a little tom foolery going on at some of them. The thing is, they're public shows, they're advertised, and the enforcement people know exactly where to be and what to watch for at these things. All they have to do is enforce the law - something they're trained to do. Will they catch everyone? No. They could make a very significant dent in the problem, however. If we don't enforce existing laws, what in the world makes anyone thing that adding more laws will solve the enforcement problem. If anything, it exacerbates it.

 

[polgara]

Yea, it just makes you want to wretch, doesn't it?

My guess is that they want a piece of paper they can wave around and say 'Hey, we did do something' - you know, the old shiny trinket game with voters.

Bunch of redundant fools they are.......(look up redundant in the dictionary, and it says 'see Congress').

And since we know the dictionary is ALWAYS correct, who are we to argue with it? After all, they spent a lot of time coming up with the most accurate definition of a word :lamo

 

[AlabamaPaul]

And since we know the dictionary is ALWAYS correct, who are we to argue with it? After all, they spent a lot of time coming up with the most accurate definition of a word :lamo

Don't get me started on those who want to debate from behind a dictionary! :soap Good evening pg...

 

[humbolt]

Nah, the more the merrier, and the more interesting as well. Good evening humbolt...

Good evening to you as well. Winter's hold on things here is beginning to weaken. The trees have that red blush about them.

 

[AlabamaPaul]

Good evening to you as well. Winter's hold on things here is beginning to weaken. The trees have that red blush about them.

Same here. The dogwoods are beginning to bud, and not to soon for me...

 

[SMTA]

Good evening to you as well. Winter's hold on things here is beginning to weaken. The trees have that red blush about them.

Lucky you - the trees have been blushing white in OH.

 

[humbolt]

Lucky you - the trees have been blushing white in OH.

Yeah. I'm sorry. I left the north for that very reason. Well, that, among a host of reasons, to be honest. But weather was a biggie. Take heart. It's almost over.

 

[mr4anarchy]

See below:

I know about these operations. But they weren't really stings, as no one was prosecuted. It was more to prove what goes on at a gun show.

My question is that under the law, what do prosecutors need to make a case?

How is this law going to be enforced in way that deters people from private sales without a background check?

And unless we double the budget and size of the ATF, new laws aren't going to have the desired effect--IMO.

 

[SMTA]

And you know there is a little tom foolery going on at some of them. The thing is, they're public shows, they're advertised, and the enforcement people know exactly where to be and what to watch for at these things. All they have to do is enforce the law - something they're trained to do. Will they catch everyone? No. They could make a very significant dent in the problem, however. If we don't enforce existing laws, what in the world makes anyone thing that adding more laws will solve the enforcement problem. If anything, it exacerbates it.

How dare you insinuate that laws already on the books be enforced! :lol:

I have not been to an OH gun show in a few years, but I have never seen any type of law enforcement there other than at the door.

From what I had seen, most transactions were between private sellers and FFL vendors, which eliminates the 'loophole' worries.

Most private sellers were looking to trade with dealers on a new gun, but the anti-gun folks do not want to acknowledge that fact, as it negates their logic.

 

[ttwtt78640]

See below:

From your supplied link:

The stings, described in a city report and documented on video released at City Hall on Wednesday, were conducted at seven gun shows in Tennessee, Ohio and Nevada. Those states are among the many that permit private unlicensed dealers, known as "occasional sellers," to sell weapons at gun shows without conducting background checks.

Two assault rifles and 20 semiautomatic handguns were bought this way, the report said.

The undercover operation took place from about May to August and its $1.5 million cost was paid by city taxpayers. The city hired a team of 40 private investigators from an outside firm to make the purchases.

Wow for only a cost of $68,181.18 per gun they caught these 19 sellers. I must have missed the part where any ever faced criminal charges (yep, it is a felony to do that "for real"), but hey it proves a point that a teeny, tiny number of such sales occur at "gun shows". Also unsaid was how many sellers REALLY failed to make those "illegal" sales. They cite a whopping 19 out of 30 sellers were willing to face federal prison to make these sales in the story, yet I disbelieve that very, very much since they also mention outfitting and using 40 agents, meaning that at least 25% of these agents did nothing at all. If it took only examining 30 sellers, why did they need to travel to 3 different states? Sounds like they "pre-screened" these "typical sellers" very carefully before sending in the "offical survey" team - maybe that was what the other 10 (or so) agents did. Hmm...

 

[Catawba]

I know about these operations. But they weren't really stings, as no one was prosecuted.

If this new federal law passes, they would be. That was my point.

 

[Catawba]

And you know there is a little tom foolery going on at some of them. The thing is, they're public shows, they're advertised, and the enforcement people know exactly where to be and what to watch for at these things. All they have to do is enforce the law - something they're trained to do. Will they catch everyone? No. They could make a very significant dent in the problem, however. If we don't enforce existing laws, what in the world makes anyone thing that adding more laws will solve the enforcement problem. If anything, it exacerbates it.

Show me existing federal law that makes it a crime punishable by maximum 15 year prison sentence for a private seller knowingly selling a gun to someone that can't pass a background check.

 

[humbolt]

How dare you insinuate that laws already on the books be enforced! :lol:

I have not been to an OH gun show in a few years, but I have never seen any type of law enforcement there other than at the door.

From what I had seen, most transactions were between private sellers and FFL vendors, which eliminates the 'loophole' worries.

Most private sellers were looking to trade with dealers on a new gun, but the anti-gun folks do not want to acknowledge that fact, as it negates their logic.

I have no doubt some straw purchases are made at gun shows, but the number is very likely to be at most similar to those made using other methods, and probably much, much smaller. It's much easier for a group of people to legally buy guns from a dealer and sell them illegally elsewhere, and it's no doubt far more profitable. Of course, the "sell them illegally" is lost on most of the gun control crowd. The route for this method from Virginia to the northeast is a storied one.

 

[Not on ur side]

any advice on the best place to for me to hide my gun before Obama sends the troops in to take it from me??? lol

 

[polgara]

Don't get me started on those who want to debate from behind a dictionary! :soap Good evening pg...

Good evening, AP.

Well, since one needs role models from time to time, we picked the Senate, because they are so much smarter than the rest of us! :allhail:

 

[AlabamaPaul]

any advice on the best place to for me to hide my gun before Obama sends the troops in to take it from me??? lol

Just keep all loaded, and dare anyone to take them from you...

 

[Catawba]

From your supplied link:



Wow for only a cost of $68,181.18 per gun they caught these 19 sellers. I must have missed the part where any ever faced criminal charges (yep, it is a felony to do that "for real"), but hey it proves a point that a teeny, tiny number of such sales occur at "gun shows". Also unsaid was how many sellers REALLY failed to make those "illegal" sales. They cite a whopping 19 out of 30 sellers were willing to face federal prison to make these sales in the story, yet I disbelieve that very, very much since they also mention outfitting and using 40 agents, meaning that at least 25% of these agents did nothing at all. If it took only examining 30 sellers, why did they need to travel to 3 different states? Sounds like they "pre-screened" these "typical sellers" very carefully before sending in the "offical survey" team - maybe that was what the other 10 (or so) agents did. Hmm...

We've been over this before. In that case the Bush Justice Dept, was not interested in gun control. If this law passes and 19 were sentenced to 10 + years in jail, its going to make others think twice about it.


Hey, you ever notice that is only libertarians or the far right that oppose reducing access to guns by those that can't pass a background check. Why do you think that is?

 

[polgara]

Nah, the more the merrier, and the more interesting as well. Good evening humbolt...

Ditto that!

 

[Not on ur side]

If no one can see with the current events of S.H., gun control, drone strikes, and more we are setting our selves up to go to war with ourselves.