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Senate panel passes bill seeking to curb illegal gun purchases

Catawba

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(Reuters) - "The Senate Judiciary Committee on Thursday backed President Barack Obama's call to crack down on illegal trafficking of firearms, marking the first votes in Congress on gun-control since a school massacre last year prompted calls for action.


On a largely party-line vote of 11-7, the Democratic-led committee approved a bill to make it a federal crime to engage in "straw purchasing," or buying of guns on behalf of those who are prohibited from owning them.


"It is designed to prevent criminals from using straw purchasers who can pass a background check and then hand those firearms to criminals," Chairman Patrick Leahy, a Vermont Democrat, said. The bill imposes a maximum sentence of 15 years in prison."

Senate panel passes bill seeking to curb illegal gun purchases | Reuters
 

SMTA

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Um, straw purchases are already illegal.
 

AlabamaPaul

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(Reuters) - "The Senate Judiciary Committee on Thursday backed President Barack Obama's call to crack down on illegal trafficking of firearms, marking the first votes in Congress on gun-control since a school massacre last year prompted calls for action.


On a largely party-line vote of 11-7, the Democratic-led committee approved a bill to make it a federal crime to engage in "straw purchasing," or buying of guns on behalf of those who are prohibited from owning them.


"It is designed to prevent criminals from using straw purchasers who can pass a background check and then hand those firearms to criminals," Chairman Patrick Leahy, a Vermont Democrat, said. The bill imposes a maximum sentence of 15 years in prison."

Senate panel passes bill seeking to curb illegal gun purchases | Reuters

I doubt any bill comes out of the Senate, and if one did, it would go nowhere in the House...
 

MaggieD

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I doubt any bill comes out of the Senate, and if one did, it would go nowhere in the House...

Why?? Why shouldn't straw purchases be made a Federal crime??
 

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They already are a crime...

Well, apparently not already a Federal crime -- unless the committee is just plain stupid.

Here's what it is now:

Straw purchases can be illegal in the United States when made at a federally licensed firearm dealership. If the straw purchaser of the firearm lies about the identity of the ultimate possessor of the gun, he can be charged with making false statements on a federal Firearms Transaction Record. If a firearm is purchased as a gift, the purchaser must indicate the intended recipient on the transaction record. Straw purchases of used guns are not illegal, unless the gun is used in a crime with the prior knowledge of the straw purchaser.[1]
 

TurtleDude

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(Reuters) - "The Senate Judiciary Committee on Thursday backed President Barack Obama's call to crack down on illegal trafficking of firearms, marking the first votes in Congress on gun-control since a school massacre last year prompted calls for action.


On a largely party-line vote of 11-7, the Democratic-led committee approved a bill to make it a federal crime to engage in "straw purchasing," or buying of guns on behalf of those who are prohibited from owning them.


"It is designed to prevent criminals from using straw purchasers who can pass a background check and then hand those firearms to criminals," Chairman Patrick Leahy, a Vermont Democrat, said. The bill imposes a maximum sentence of 15 years in prison."

Senate panel passes bill seeking to curb illegal gun purchases | Reuters

I guess you have never been to a gun shop

they all have this poster in them

it talks about straw purchases


dontlie-campaign-logo-300x225.jpg
 

Catawba

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Um, straw purchases are already illegal.

They were not a federal crime that came with a maximum 15 year sentence.
 

tessaesque

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So I guess this will end Fast n Furious type activities on behalf of the government, as well?
 

TurtleDude

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Well, apparently not already a Federal crime -- unless the committee is just plain stupid.

I guess you missed me posting FORM 4473 on this forum several weeks ago

I certify that my answers to Section A are true, correct, and complete. I have read and understand the Notices, Instructions, and Definitions on ATF Form 4473. I understand that answering “yes” to question 11.a. if I am not the actual buyer is a crime punishable as a felony under Federal law, and may also violate State and/or local law.
 

TurtleDude

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TurtleDude

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I think you're wrong -- see my post above.


I certify that my answers to Section A are true, correct, and complete. I have read and understand the Notices, Instructions, and Definitions on ATF Form 4473. I understand that answering “yes” to question 11.a. if I am not the actual buyer is a crime punishable as a felony under Federal law, and may also violate State and/or local law.
 

MaggieD

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I certify that my answers to Section A are true, correct, and complete. I have read and understand the Notices, Instructions, and Definitions on ATF Form 4473. I understand that answering “yes” to question 11.a. if I am not the actual buyer is a crime punishable as a felony under Federal law, and may also violate State and/or local law.

It's my understanding this only applies to gun shops. Not private sales. Not gun show sales. Does every buyer of a gun fill out a 4473? (Thanks.)
 

LaMidRighter

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I think you're wrong -- see my post above.
When you fill out the form for a new gun at a dealer you must fill out the 4473, you answer whether it is a personal purchase or a gifted item, falsifying that information is a federal offense. For purchases of a used gun, buying on behalf of a third party is only illegal if there is prior knowledge of felony status or it is known the weapon is being attained for criminal purposes.
 

tech30528

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Question 11a on the 4473 form:

11. Answer questions 11.a. (see exceptions) through 11.l. and 12 (if applicable) by checking or marking “yes” or “no” in the boxes to the right of the questions.
a. Are you the actual transferee/buyer of the firearm(s) listed on this form? Warning: You are not the actual buyer if you are acquiring the firearm(s) on behalf of another person. If you are not the actual buyer, the dealer cannot transfer the firearm(s) to you.

Yup. Been illegal as long as I have been buying guns. But hey, now that it's illegaler those gang members will stop doing it, right?

Now if we just had laws against stuff like murder and stealing we'd be in great shape.
 

TurtleDude

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It's my understanding this only applies to gun shops. Not private sales. Not gun show sales. Does every buyer of a gun fill out a 4473? (Thanks.)

no, federal law never required that and there is nothing in place that requires private sellers to maintain records or do background checks. BUT IF I GIVE OR SELL a gun to someone whom I know is a felon or I have reasonable belief is a prohibited person it is a felony. The law was talking about straw purchases and straw purchases mean a NON PROHIBITED PERSON buying a gun with the premeditated intention of immediately transferring the weapon to a prohibited person
 

SMTA

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Catawba

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I guess you missed me posting FORM 4473 on this forum several weeks ago

I certify that my answers to Section A are true, correct, and complete. I have read and understand the Notices, Instructions, and Definitions on ATF Form 4473. I understand that answering “yes” to question 11.a. if I am not the actual buyer is a crime punishable as a felony under Federal law, and may also violate State and/or local law.

That would only apply to guns bought from an FFL dealer. It would not apply to guns bought from private sellers.
 

TurtleDude

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That would only apply to guns bought from an FFL dealer. It would not apply to guns bought from private sellers.

and I won't waste my time asking you how that can possibly be enforced on people who have no duty to maintain records of weapons they own or sell
 

AlabamaPaul

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That would only apply to guns bought from an FFL dealer. It would not apply to guns bought from private sellers.

The only way to control private sales or gifts would be to institute a national registry...
 

SMTA

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Thanks for the input, TD.

I found it hard to believe that a Federal form filled out at a Federally licensed dealer did not result in breaking a federal law!
 
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