Senate kills Agent Orange Benefits to NAVY vets

[Checkerboard Strangler]

A bill that would have extended Agent Orange benefits to Vietnam Era Navy vets was killed by Senate Republicans yesterday.

The so-called “Blue Water Navy Bill” died in the U.S. Senate when Sen. Mike Enzi, a Wyoming Republican, objected, expressing concerns about the bill’s cost, according to Stars and Stripes.
The bill would make tens of thousands ailing veterans eligible for disability compensation and health care from the VA.

In addition, Trump's SecVA [FONT=&quot]Robert Wilkie voiced his opposition to the bill in September, citing "cost concerns and insufficient scientific evidence".

The bill had previously passed UNANIMOUSLY in the House.[/FONT]

 

[haymarket]

A bill that would have extended Agent Orange benefits to Vietnam Era Navy vets was killed by Senate Republicans yesterday.

The so-called “Blue Water Navy Bill” died in the U.S. Senate when Sen. Mike Enzi, a Wyoming Republican, objected, expressing concerns about the bill’s cost, according to Stars and Stripes.
The bill would make tens of thousands ailing veterans eligible for disability compensation and health care from the VA.

In addition, Trump's SecVA [FONT="]Robert Wilkie [URL="https://www.stripes.com/news/veterans/last-ditch-effort-to-pass-blue-water-navy-bill-fails-in-senate-1.560126"]voiced his opposition[/URL] to the bill in September, citing "cost concerns and insufficient scientific evidence".

The bill had previously passed UNANIMOUSLY in the House.[/FONT]

This is disgusting. How could any patriot deny these veterans the assistance they need and earned in the service of their nation and our people? I am appalled by this.

 

[Hawkeye10]

A bill that would have extended Agent Orange benefits to Vietnam Era Navy vets was killed by Senate Republicans yesterday.

The so-called “Blue Water Navy Bill” died in the U.S. Senate when Sen. Mike Enzi, a Wyoming Republican, objected, expressing concerns about the bill’s cost, according to Stars and Stripes.
The bill would make tens of thousands ailing veterans eligible for disability compensation and health care from the VA.

In addition, Trump's SecVA [FONT="]Robert Wilkie [URL="https://www.stripes.com/news/veterans/last-ditch-effort-to-pass-blue-water-navy-bill-fails-in-senate-1.560126"]voiced his opposition[/URL] to the bill in September, citing "cost concerns and insufficient scientific evidence".

The bill had previously passed UNANIMOUSLY in the House.[/FONT]

For most “Blue Water” Veterans – those who served in open sea ships off the coast of Vietnam – Agent Orange exposure is not presumed. However, Blue Water Veterans with non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma may be granted service connection without showing inland waterway service or that they set foot in Vietnam.

Additionally, if you were on a ship that docked to shore in Vietnam, and you went onshore for any reason – even for a short period of time – exposure is presumed. You will need to provide a personal statement that you went onshore and a record of where your ship was docked. Similarly, if you served on a ship anchored in a Vietnamese harbor (offshore), and your ship sent service members to shore for any reason, exposure is presumed. You will need to provide a record of the trip to shore and a personal statement that you were on that trip. If you were stationed on a ship that launched aircrafts that landed on the ground for any reason (e.g. search and rescue missions, mail or supply runs, to repair aircraft), then exposure is presumed.

If you set foot in Vietnam during a flight stopover (e.g. for repairs of your aircraft, to deliver or pick up supplies, etc.), you may be presumed exposed

https://cck-law.com/news/agent-orange-exposure-in-vietnam/

I call this bending over backwards already....let's not be stupid/crazy.

 

[SenorXm/Sirius]

Ah yes.. More love for the Vets from the GOP... Can't wait for Trump to tweet some more love for vets and POW's..

I'm sure when these Republicans appear on Fox they'll go on and on about how these Vets are heroes and they'll have a little Flag pin on their lapel.

They're worried about costs after just giving their rich buddies a trillion $ in tax cuts. What a bunch of disgusting, awful people.

It is scary how many people in this country vote against their own interest. Because I'm sure most Vets will still vote Republican.

 

[Mr Person]

We can pump defense from 600b to 715b per year but we can't pay that?

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

https://cck-law.com/news/agent-orange-exposure-in-vietnam/

I call this bending over backwards already....let's not be stupid/crazy.

Throughout the history of TCDD (aka Agent Orange) the primary means of transportation for this chemical, and all of the other variant types of defoliants, was by military ship, not only to Vietnam but to locations as far away as Okinawa.

In addition, most personnel in charge of handling these chemicals were not issued protective gear and were often not informed as to the nature of the substances that they were handling. Such was the case with my wife, who was exposed to ionizing radiation while working unprotected at Hunter's Point Naval Base in San Francisco.

In addition, there were instances where Navy ships had to use marine water from areas in close proximity to create potable water, which was of course contaminated, another pathway to contact for any personnel serving aboard those ships.

Again, as usual, personnel were not often informed as to the nature of their risk of contact with these chemicals, or the risks to the potable water supply they were using.

Furthermore, a great many ships that saw service in the Brown Water Navy later saw service in the Blue Water Navy as well, and personnel who had never set foot in or even near Vietnam may have been exposed by that pathway.

The YTB Winnemucca, the harbor tug my wife served on, was originally used in the Brown Water Navy in Vietnam before being transferred stateside.

Would you like for me to go on?

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

https://cck-law.com/news/agent-orange-exposure-in-vietnam/

I call this bending over backwards already....let's not be stupid/crazy.

So you're saying that the entire Republican dominated House of Representatives bent over backwards and behaved stupidly when they passed the bill 382 - 0 on 6/25/2018.

 

[Parrish]

Throughout the history of TCDD (aka Agent Orange) the primary means of transportation for this chemical, and all of the other variant types of defoliants, was by military ship, not only to Vietnam but to locations as far away as Okinawa.

In addition, most personnel in charge of handling these chemicals were not issued protective gear and were often not informed as to the nature of the substances that they were handling. Such was the case with my wife, who was exposed to ionizing radiation while working unprotected at Hunter's Point Naval Base in San Francisco.

In addition, there were instances where Navy ships had to use marine water from areas in close proximity to create potable water, which was of course contaminated, another pathway to contact for any personnel serving aboard those ships.

Again, as usual, personnel were not often informed as to the nature of their risk of contact with these chemicals, or the risks to the potable water supply they were using.

Furthermore, a great many ships that saw service in the Brown Water Navy later saw service in the Blue Water Navy as well, and personnel who had never set foot in or even near Vietnam may have been exposed by that pathway.

The YTB Winnemucca, the harbor tug my wife served on, was originally used in the Brown Water Navy in Vietnam before being transferred stateside.

Would you like for me to go on?

I'm so sorry to hear what happened to your wife. That the VA and Senate Republicans would treat our veterans this way is deplorable.

 

[UtahBill]

A bill that would have extended Agent Orange benefits to Vietnam Era Navy vets was killed by Senate Republicans yesterday.

The so-called “Blue Water Navy Bill” died in the U.S. Senate when Sen. Mike Enzi, a Wyoming Republican, objected, expressing concerns about the bill’s cost, according to Stars and Stripes.
The bill would make tens of thousands ailing veterans eligible for disability compensation and health care from the VA.

In addition, Trump's SecVA Robert Wilkie voiced his opposition to the bill in September, citing "cost concerns and insufficient scientific evidence".

The bill had previously passed UNANIMOUSLY in the House.

Brown water sailors get compensation if they get a disease on the presumptive list. They were exposed to it via airborne spraying and by "processing" river water for drinking, showering, etc. Blue water Navy would likely have had much less exposure.
I was Brown Water Navy in 1969.

 

[Cardinal]

A bill that would have extended Agent Orange benefits to Vietnam Era Navy vets was killed by Senate Republicans yesterday.

The so-called “Blue Water Navy Bill” died in the U.S. Senate when Sen. Mike Enzi, a Wyoming Republican, objected, expressing concerns about the bill’s cost, according to Stars and Stripes.
The bill would make tens of thousands ailing veterans eligible for disability compensation and health care from the VA.

In addition, Trump's SecVA [FONT="]Robert Wilkie [URL="https://www.stripes.com/news/veterans/last-ditch-effort-to-pass-blue-water-navy-bill-fails-in-senate-1.560126"]voiced his opposition[/URL] to the bill in September, citing "cost concerns and insufficient scientific evidence".

The bill had previously passed UNANIMOUSLY in the House.[/FONT]

Oh jeez. I know somebody dealing with the aftereffects of agent orange from when he was in Nam. The poor guy doesn't need this ****.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

I'm so sorry to hear what happened to your wife. That the VA and Senate Republicans would treat our veterans this way is deplorable.

It is likely that EVERY SINGLE PERSON, military or non-military, who stayed, lived at or worked at Hunter's Point OR Treasure Island, at any period between 1954 and 1990, was most likely exposed to certain significant amounts of ionizing radiation as well as several well known dangerous toxic substances which are not radioactive.
In addition, even in present day, much of the land mass of these two areas is still loaded with dangerous substances.

Hunter's Point Naval Shipyard

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Brown water sailors get compensation if they get a disease on the presumptive list. They were exposed to it via airborne spraying and by "processing" river water for drinking, showering, etc. Blue water Navy would likely have had much less exposure.
I was Brown Water Navy in 1969.

While it is likely that Blue Water Navy may have less overall incidence of exposure, it is also entirely likely that certain Blue Water Navy personnel may have had significant exposure. The stuff came over to SE Asia on Navy ships.

 

[Parrish]

Check out this link from the VA and diseases caused by Agent orange.

https://www.va.gov/disability/eligi...rials-exposure/agent-orange/related-diseases/

 

[RAMOSS]

A bill that would have extended Agent Orange benefits to Vietnam Era Navy vets was killed by Senate Republicans yesterday.

The so-called “Blue Water Navy Bill” died in the U.S. Senate when Sen. Mike Enzi, a Wyoming Republican, objected, expressing concerns about the bill’s cost, according to Stars and Stripes.
The bill would make tens of thousands ailing veterans eligible for disability compensation and health care from the VA.

In addition, Trump's SecVA [FONT="]Robert Wilkie [URL="https://www.stripes.com/news/veterans/last-ditch-effort-to-pass-blue-water-navy-bill-fails-in-senate-1.560126"]voiced his opposition[/URL] to the bill in September, citing "cost concerns and insufficient scientific evidence".

The bill had previously passed UNANIMOUSLY in the House.[/FONT]

It shows where true patriotism lies, and it's not in the Republican Senate

 

[SenorXm/Sirius]

It shows where true patriotism lies, and it's not in the Republican Senate

It's with VERY few Republicans.

 

[beefheart]

Oh jeez. I know somebody dealing with the aftereffects of agent orange from when he was in Nam. The poor guy doesn't need this ****.

I knew a guy who died from it, a brilliant man, a top astronomer and author. It is unconscionable that they did this.

 

[UtahBill]

While it is likely that Blue Water Navy may have less overall incidence of exposure, it is also entirely likely that certain Blue Water Navy personnel may have had significant exposure. The stuff came over to SE Asia on Navy ships.

Yeah, and it seems to me that long term exposure in blue water near brown water ought to equate to "stepping foot" for 1 day upstream where the water is brown.

 

[Hawkeye10]

Throughout the history of TCDD (aka Agent Orange) the primary means of transportation for this chemical, and all of the other variant types of defoliants, was by military ship, not only to Vietnam but to locations as far away as Okinawa.

In addition, most personnel in charge of handling these chemicals were not issued protective gear and were often not informed as to the nature of the substances that they were handling. Such was the case with my wife, who was exposed to ionizing radiation while working unprotected at Hunter's Point Naval Base in San Francisco.

In addition, there were instances where Navy ships had to use marine water from areas in close proximity to create potable water, which was of course contaminated, another pathway to contact for any personnel serving aboard those ships.

Again, as usual, personnel were not often informed as to the nature of their risk of contact with these chemicals, or the risks to the potable water supply they were using.

Furthermore, a great many ships that saw service in the Brown Water Navy later saw service in the Blue Water Navy as well, and personnel who had never set foot in or even near Vietnam may have been exposed by that pathway.

The YTB Winnemucca, the harbor tug my wife served on, was originally used in the Brown Water Navy in Vietnam before being transferred stateside.

Would you like for me to go on?

Indeed, the committee felt that the paucity of scientific data makes it impossible to determine whether or not Blue Water Navy veterans were exposed to Agent Orange–associated TCDD during the Vietnam War.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK209606/#ddd00143

This is deeply unsatisfying.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK209606/#ddd00143

This is deeply unsatisfying.

What's deeply unsatisfying is the fact that while the military exposes a lot of people to high risk materials and substances, they don't always seem too eager to inform or protect them, when in many cases it's a simple matter of Personal Protective Equipment (PPE) as used in private industry.

Considering the size of the budgets the military is used to working with, it's not a stretch to provide personnel with the proper PPE and to take steps to at least minimize unnecessary exposure.

You and a couple of others attempted to make a distinction between Blue Water and Brown Water naval vessels, whereupon I proved that the Navy makes very little or no such distinction, rotating vessels and equipment, like it would be expected to, to different locations as needed. There are no walled off segregations between vessels and equipment used in Blue Water or Brown Water service. When more Blue Water vessels are needed, and less Brown Water assignments exist, then Brown Water resources get transferred to Blue Water service, and vice versa.

Furthermore, the military's record on decontaminating equipment and vessels is as poor as that of private industry.
One of the reasons WHY Hunter's Point Naval Shipyard is such a dangerous and radioactive place is because the Navy was convinced that they could decontaminate ships which were blasted with radiation in the Operation Crossroads shots at Bikini.

They towed a great many vessels back to San Francisco with the intention of decontaminating them only to learn that it was well nigh impossible to do so, so they cut them up as scrap and either stored the metals or sold them off.

The same issues also exist with so called decontamination efforts with regard to exposure to Agent Orange, DU, and a host of other dangerous substances. It's not quite as easy as one might think.

So all this distinction between which naval personnel did or did not get exposed based on whether or not they were inland on a waterway is really a lot of blind conjecture, because wherever that stuff was manufactured, stored, or transported, a lot of people got exposed to it.
It is certain that Brown Water Navy personnel were exposed to much more of it but it is a fool's errand to rule that no one outside the Brown Water fleet ever came into contact with it when clearly thousands of 55 gallon drums of the stuff was coming over aboard both Navy and Merchant Marine vessels all throughout the life cycle of the chemical's existence.

 

[Hawkeye10]

What's deeply unsatisfying is the fact that while the military exposes a lot of people to high risk materials and substances, they don't always seem too eager to inform or protect them, when in many cases it's a simple matter of Personal Protective Equipment (PPE) as used in private industry.

Considering the size of the budgets the military is used to working with, it's not a stretch to provide personnel with the proper PPE and to take steps to at least minimize unnecessary exposure.

You and a couple of others attempted to make a distinction between Blue Water and Brown Water naval vessels, whereupon I proved that the Navy makes very little or no such distinction, rotating vessels and equipment, like it would be expected to, to different locations as needed. There are no walled off segregations between vessels and equipment used in Blue Water or Brown Water service. When more Blue Water vessels are needed, and less Brown Water assignments exist, then Brown Water resources get transferred to Blue Water service, and vice versa.

Furthermore, the military's record on decontaminating equipment and vessels is as poor as that of private industry.
One of the reasons WHY Hunter's Point Naval Shipyard is such a dangerous and radioactive place is because the Navy was convinced that they could decontaminate ships which were blasted with radiation in the Operation Crossroads shots at Bikini.

They towed a great many vessels back to San Francisco with the intention of decontaminating them only to learn that it was well nigh impossible to do so, so they cut them up as scrap and either stored the metals or sold them off.

The same issues also exist with so called decontamination efforts with regard to exposure to Agent Orange, DU, and a host of other dangerous substances. It's not quite as easy as one might think.

So all this distinction between which naval personnel did or did not get exposed based on whether or not they were inland on a waterway is really a lot of blind conjecture, because wherever that stuff was manufactured, stored, or transported, a lot of people got exposed to it.
It is certain that Brown Water Navy personnel were exposed to much more of it but it is a fool's errand to rule that no one outside the Brown Water fleet ever came into contact with it when clearly thousands of 55 gallon drums of the stuff was coming over aboard both Navy and Merchant Marine vessels all throughout the life cycle of the chemical's existence.

Re my link there was zero testing and it is impossible to do models because there is not enough information...that really sucks and that should not have happened....I am with you on this.

Do you know why they cant sample Blue Navy vets who say they never stepped in Nam looking for elevated incidence of health problems? Seems to me if they found none then we could put this to bed.

 

[eohrnberger]

Seems all this fauxrage might need some redirection.

House Democrats block VA Choice reforms from ... - Modern Healthcare
https://www.modernhealthcare.com/article/20180321/NEWS/180329984
Mar 21, 2018 - VA Choice is currently limited to veterans who live more than 40 miles ... an appropriator for the VA, had not only come out against the Senate ...

House Democrats Just Blocked New Veterans Health Care Reform Bill
https://www.firstquotehealth.com/health...news/democrats-block-veterans-health-bill
Jun 14, 2018 - House Democrats, led by Nancy Pelosi, blocked funds for the US ... Affairs this week, as Trump attempts to privatize veterans healthcare. ... Shulkin claims his pushback against privatization ultimately lead to his firing. The VA ...

House Democrats throw wrench in GOP spending plans - POLITICO
[url]https://www.politico.com/story/.../house-democrats-republican-spending-plans-59814...[/URL]
Jun 5, 2018 - The move surprised even some Republicans, who believed Democrats would be hard-pressed to vote against funding for veterans' health care ...
​

 

[BrainNebula]

A bill that would have extended Agent Orange benefits to Vietnam Era Navy vets was killed by Senate Republicans yesterday.

The so-called “Blue Water Navy Bill” died in the U.S. Senate when Sen. Mike Enzi, a Wyoming Republican, objected, expressing concerns about the bill’s cost, according to Stars and Stripes.
The bill would make tens of thousands ailing veterans eligible for disability compensation and health care from the VA.

In addition, Trump's SecVA [FONT="]Robert Wilkie [URL="https://www.stripes.com/news/veterans/last-ditch-effort-to-pass-blue-water-navy-bill-fails-in-senate-1.560126"]voiced his opposition[/URL] to the bill in September, citing "cost concerns and insufficient scientific evidence".

The bill had previously passed UNANIMOUSLY in the House.[/FONT]

The article frames the situation a little differently than you:

The Senate plans to adjourn for this session by week’s end, which means the bill is likely doomed until next year.

 

[JoanDavis]

This is disgusting. How could any patriot deny these veterans the assistance they need and earned in the service of their nation and our people? I am appalled by this.

How could any veteran continue to support the republicans and cadet bone spurs?

Seriously these republicans love to send troops to fight their dirty wars but when it comes to helping them when they return home, they always say NYET.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Re my link there was zero testing and it is impossible to do models because there is not enough information...that really sucks and that should not have happened....I am with you on this.

Do you know why they cant sample Blue Navy vets who say they never stepped in Nam looking for elevated incidence of health problems? Seems to me if they found none then we could put this to bed.

Again, if you manufacture substances like this, for military OR private use, everyone in the chain is at risk, including those who made the stuff, transported or simply loaded it on rail cars headed to a port...it doesn't matter.
Naval logistics are not that much different from..."LOGISTICS".

Transportation of weapons and other materials still follows the same chain as it does elsewhere, so if something like a bunch of 55 gallon drums is headed to SE Asia, they're going to load it on board a ship.
The Sealift Command numbered well over 150 vessels during the Vietnam War, and many of them were roll-on and roll-off or lift-on and lift-off.

That about covers it if you're moving defoliant chemicals.

 

[Hawkeye10]

How could any veteran continue to support the republicans and cadet bone spurs?

Seriously these republicans love to send troops to fight their dirty wars but when it comes to helping them when they return home, they always say NYET.

The solution is clear.....go talk to some of them.......find out what they think and why.