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Sen. Rand Paul going to Canada for hernia surgery

TU Curmudgeon

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From United Press International

Sen. Rand Paul going to Canada for hernia surgery

Jan. 14 (UPI) -- U.S. Sen. Rand Paul, a Kentucky libertarian known for his opposition to socialized medicine, is going to Canada for hernia surgery next week, according to court papers he filed in a civil case.

The Louisville Courier-Journal reported that Paul, a onetime Republican presidential candidate, will have outpatient surgery performed at the Shouldice Hernia Hospital in Thornhill, Ontario, next week.

The information appeared in documents filed in the senator's civil lawsuit against neighbor Rene Boucher, who pleaded guilty to assaulting Paul in 2017. Paul suffered six broken ribs and a bruised lung in the dispute over lawn maintenance.

Paul has been a longtime critic of socialized healthcare systems like Canada. During Republican efforts to replace the Affordable Care Act, Paul derided what he called socialized medicine and the need for the marketplace in healthcare. In Canada, healthcare is nationalized.

COMMENT:-

No one should be surprised by this, American insurance companies have had arrangements with Canadian medical service providers so that the American policy holders would receive medical services in Canada and the American insurance companies would pay 100% of the bills of the Canadian medical service providers.

The way that this works, is that the American insurance company bases its premiums on what it would cost to provide the services in the United States of America, but bases its expenses on what it actually costs.

This is a win-win situation for both the American insurance companies and the Canadian medical service providers. It's also a win for the Canadian medical insurance premium payers (it actually cuts the costs of providing services). The only ones who "lose out" on the arrangement are the American medical insurance premium payers.
 

Carjosse

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From United Press International

Sen. Rand Paul going to Canada for hernia surgery

Jan. 14 (UPI) -- U.S. Sen. Rand Paul, a Kentucky libertarian known for his opposition to socialized medicine, is going to Canada for hernia surgery next week, according to court papers he filed in a civil case.

The Louisville Courier-Journal reported that Paul, a onetime Republican presidential candidate, will have outpatient surgery performed at the Shouldice Hernia Hospital in Thornhill, Ontario, next week.

The information appeared in documents filed in the senator's civil lawsuit against neighbor Rene Boucher, who pleaded guilty to assaulting Paul in 2017. Paul suffered six broken ribs and a bruised lung in the dispute over lawn maintenance.

Paul has been a longtime critic of socialized healthcare systems like Canada. During Republican efforts to replace the Affordable Care Act, Paul derided what he called socialized medicine and the need for the marketplace in healthcare. In Canada, healthcare is nationalized.

COMMENT:-

No one should be surprised by this, American insurance companies have had arrangements with Canadian medical service providers so that the American policy holders would receive medical services in Canada and the American insurance companies would pay 100% of the bills of the Canadian medical service providers.

The way that this works, is that the American insurance company bases its premiums on what it would cost to provide the services in the United States of America, but bases its expenses on what it actually costs.

This is a win-win situation for both the American insurance companies and the Canadian medical service providers. It's also a win for the Canadian medical insurance premium payers (it actually cuts the costs of providing services). The only ones who "lose out" on the arrangement are the American medical insurance premium payers.

It is worth pointing out that he is going to one of the very few private hospitals in the province that existed before the introduction of single-payer. As the name suggests it is a very small hospital that specializes very specifically in hernia surgeries.

But just in case you think that just proves your point that single-payer is ineffective, it doesn't Canada's public hospitals and universities are still leaders and innovators in many kinds of treatments.
 

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According to the report, people come from "around the world" to have this surgery here....what's the beef?

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trixare4kids

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According to the report, people come from "around the world" to have this surgery here....what's the beef?

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The beef is that some are trying to make conservative Rand out to be a hypocrite but he chose a private hospital which is not a part of the publicly funded gov. healthcare system so they have failed miserably to make their case.
Just laugh... :lol:
 

AliHajiSheik

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I've seen a few threads on this topic and it is noteworthy. I don't think it is the best argument for Canadian medicine over US medicine.

I'd be curious how the salaries for the physicians compare between those at this hospital and those at public Canadian hospitals.
 

Carjosse

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I've seen a few threads on this topic and it is noteworthy. I don't think it is the best argument for Canadian medicine over US medicine.

I'd be curious how the salaries for the physicians compare between those at this hospital and those at public Canadian hospitals.

That would be a very hard thing to do considering those doctors are very specialized in a very specific surgery, using a very specific method, in a hospital that caters to the wealthy. Not to mention it would vary by province quite widely.

It is also worth noting that doctors in Canada have far less debt than their US counterparts, one of my roommates in my first year was a medical student and he said it is not abnormal for US medical students to have several million dollars of debt from their studies.
 
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AliHajiSheik

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That would be a very hard thing to do considering those doctors are very specialized in a very specific surgery, using a very specific method, in a hospital that caters to the wealthy. Not to mention it would vary by province quite widely.

It is also worth noting that doctors in Canada have far less debt than their US counterparts, one of my roommates in my first year was a medical student and he said it is not abnormal for US medical students to have several million dollars of debt from their studies.

If you had every physicians salary, it would not be hard to compare. It would also not be difficult to compare the cost of the various procedures that are done there with the same procedures at other hospitals--assuming that they are comparable. Presumably the people who decide to work there make some kind of analysis that factors in salary and costs.
 

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The beef is that some are trying to make conservative Rand out to be a hypocrite but he chose a private hospital which is not a part of the publicly funded gov. healthcare system so they have failed miserably to make their case.
Just laugh... :lol:

Err...this hospital is entirely covered for Ontario citizens (this hospital is on Ontario). I know because I just used their online chat to inquire.

I encourage you to do the same, if you don't believe me:

https://www.shouldice.com/

I will take you up on your offer to laugh, though...well, maybe chuckle, anyway. ;)
 

Carjosse

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If you had every physicians salary, it would not be hard to compare. It would also not be difficult to compare the cost of the various procedures that are done there with the same procedures at other hospitals--assuming that they are comparable. Presumably the people who decide to work there make some kind of analysis that factors in salary and costs.

They have 10 doctors all specialized in a very specific hernia surgery, that would be hard to compare to the thousands of surgeons in the public system unless you can also find public surgeons very specialized in hernia surgery. Though since the post above mine says they accept OHIP it probably costs the same as if it was done in a public hospital, at least to the government, they probably charge foreigners a lot more.
 
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OlNate

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That would be a very hard thing to do considering those doctors are very specialized in a very specific surgery, using a very specific method, in a hospital that caters to the wealthy. Not to mention it would vary by province quite widely.

It is also worth noting that doctors in Canada have far less debt than their US counterparts, one of my roommates in my first year was a medical student and he said it is not abnormal for US medical students to have several million dollars of debt from their studies.

I'm not sure it "caters to the wealthy". They take OHIP...hehe...
 

Carjosse

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According to the report, people come from "around the world" to have this surgery here....what's the beef?

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They are very famous and very specialized in hernia surgery.
 

Carjosse

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I'm not sure it "caters to the wealthy". They take OHIP...hehe...

But I imagine most of their customer base is wealthy foreigners, I doubt every hernia surgery in Ontario is being sent there.
 

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Err...this hospital is entirely covered for Ontario citizens (this hospital is on Ontario). I know because I just used their online chat to inquire.

I encourage you to do the same, if you don't believe me:

https://www.shouldice.com/

I will take you up on your offer to laugh, though...well, maybe chuckle, anyway. ;)
Ok? Good for them....patience Nate, both our political parties are headed there anyway.....just a matter of time.

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OlNate

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But I imagine most of their customer base is wealthy foreigners, I doubt every hernia surgery in Ontario is being sent there.

No, I doubt it too...I'm sure they have to seek this place out. But if you look at their website, they have a walk in clinic, no appointment or referral necessary, and they take OHIP. It might cost folks to travel there, if they don't live near by, which might make most people opt to go to their local hospital for treatment, but if you really want to have your hernia looked after there, it doesn't appear there's anything other than logistics stopping you, or making it cost more than going to a standard hospital.

Ask them, they have a live chat :) https://www.shouldice.com/
 

OlNate

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Ok? Good for them....patience Nate, both our political parties are headed there anyway.....just a matter of time.

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No patience required, bud, I live in Ontario, we're already there. :)

Don't let them tell you it's perfect, nothing is. But you don't hear many people up here wishing for anyone else's system, so I guess it's not too shabby. hehe
 

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I've seen a few threads on this topic and it is noteworthy. I don't think it is the best argument for Canadian medicine over US medicine.

I'd be curious how the salaries for the physicians compare between those at this hospital and those at public Canadian hospitals.

Why would that be an issue?
 

HenryChinaski

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No patience required, bud, I live in Ontario, we're already there. :)

Don't let them tell you it's perfect, nothing is. But you don't hear many people up here wishing for anyone else's system, so I guess it's not too shabby. hehe

One of my best friends from Chicago has been living in Toronto for past 13 years as a legal resident. He's a hypochondriac IMO and goes to the doctor frequently for the smallest issue, real or imagined. He has nothing but positive things to say about Canadian healthcare compared to American.
 

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No patience required, bud, I live in Ontario, we're already there. :)

Don't let them tell you it's perfect, nothing is. But you don't hear many people up here wishing for anyone else's system, so I guess it's not too shabby. hehe
Again good for you....very few at 57 years old "tell" me anything concerning how to think....although I do always find it curious when our friends to the north try to, eh....;)

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trixare4kids

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Err...this hospital is entirely covered for Ontario citizens (this hospital is on Ontario). I know because I just used their online chat to inquire.

I encourage you to do the same, if you don't believe me:

https://www.shouldice.com/

I will take you up on your offer to laugh, though...well, maybe chuckle, anyway. ;)

Why then is it called a private hospital?
Of course you can go to it but what is your out of pocket expense for going out of network?
 

OlNate

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Again good for you....very few at 57 years old "tell" me anything concerning how to think....although I do always find it curious when our friends to the north try to, eh....;)

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Mmm...not sure what you mean, bud... I'm not trying to tell you what to think. I'm just telling you how it is. :)

But if we were to tell you how to think, you ought to listen. Maple syrup and good beer make you smarter. ;)
 

trixare4kids

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No, I doubt it too...I'm sure they have to seek this place out. But if you look at their website, they have a walk in clinic, no appointment or referral necessary, and they take OHIP. It might cost folks to travel there, if they don't live near by, which might make most people opt to go to their local hospital for treatment, but if you really want to have your hernia looked after there, it doesn't appear there's anything other than logistics stopping you, or making it cost more than going to a standard hospital.

Ask them, they have a live chat :) https://www.shouldice.com/


OHIP fully covers the cost of examinations and procedures at Shouldice, but out-of-province health plans may not cover everything. ... In most hernia operations at public hospitals, patients are discharged on the same day, whereas Shouldice patients stay for three days. There are charges for semi-private rooms.

You're welcome.
 

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Mmm...not sure what you mean, bud... I'm not trying to tell you what to think. I'm just telling you how it is. :)

But if we were to tell you how to think, you ought to listen. Maple syrup and good beer make you smarter. ;)
Lol....grew up in Michigan and knew lots of knucks, never knew they could be so arrogant...lol

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OlNate

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Why then is it called a private hospital?
Of course you can go to it but what is your out of pocket expense for going out of network?

Nothing. :) Response from the representative to me was "entirely covered by OHIP". (OHIP stands for Ontario Health Insurance Plan - healthcare is administered at the provincial level) It's actually relevant to me, as my father just found out he has a hernia, and Thornhill isn't all that far from us.

It could be called a private hospital because it also caters to foreign patients. They likely make more money off of foreign clients. I'm not sure. But as a resident of Ontario, I can go there completely free, and have my bill sent back to the government. Almost makes you want a hernia... ;) haha (j/k)
 

upsideguy

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According to the report, people come from "around the world" to have this surgery here....what's the beef?

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Though in the medical tourism industry, 10 Americans go elsewhere for every foreigner that comes here.

https://www.amjmed.com/article/S0002-9343(18)30620-X/fulltext

1.4 Million Americans Will Go Abroad for Medical Care This Year. Should You? | The Fiscal Times

Thanks Senator Paul for reminding us all that our healthcare is not all that great for a supposed 1st world country (most expensive with very subpar outcomes).
 
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OlNate

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Lol....grew up in Michigan and knew lots of knucks, never knew they could be so arrogant...lol

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lmao...really? How do you think we get such a reputation for being polite? When you know you're better than everyone, it's easy to be chill... :lol:

(I'm totally joking with you right now, in case you're missing that - though our beer is better, that is not up for debate...lolz)
 
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