Sen. Cory Gardner calls on Congress to end shutdown without border deal

[Chomsky]

Colorado's Cory Gardner became the first Republican senator to break with President Donald Trump over border wall funding, saying Thursday Congress should end the 13-day-old partial government shutdown and work out differences over border security later.

Later Thursday, U.S. Sen. Susan Collins of Maine said she sees "no reason why the bills that are ready to go and on which we've achieved an agreement should be held hostage to this debate over border security."

Source: Denver Gazette) Sen. Cory Gardner calls on Congress to end shutdown without border deal

O.K., Gardner flipped yesterday, and Collins soon followed. That's two GOP senators down, out of four needed for the actual budget vote - to get it to the President's desk.

Others I see as possibilities:

1] McSally (AZ) - She's in a very vulnerable position, so I'd keep an eye on her.

2] Murkowski (AK) - Always a wildcard, and Collin's sidekick in matters like this.

3] Romney (UT) - A wildcard now, due to his recent op-ed & Utah's anti-Trump Republicanism.

So who else might I be missing? That might be teetering, or in a precarious position? Could this grow into a political force within the Senate? Can they reach the level for cloture? And what about Manchin? Will he be a reliable 'D' vote? It sure is getting interesting!

 

[azgreg]

Does it really matter if McConnell won't bring it to the floor in the first place?

 

[Chomsky]

Does it really matter if McConnell won't bring it to the floor in the first place?

Maybe.

It is the start of a insurrection, though; the first crack, so to speak. But yes, it is a long way to cloture with only a finite number of GOP Sens being in purple states.

But one of my questions in my OP commentary, is:

"Can they reach the level for cloture?"

Do you have an opinion?

 

[ttwtt78640]

This 'debate' is already 4 months past due - any suggestion that more time is needed is simply BS (especially when vacations were taken). The call to hurry up (kicking the can down the road) so we can wait some more is moronic. At least pass something, putting all congress critters on record, and let Trump either sign it or veto it.

 

[Rogue Valley]

As I see it, the ultimate decision on when to end the shutdown rests solely with two people, Mitch McConnell and Donald Trump.

I think Cloture (Rule 22) is probably only possible with McConnell"s assent.

 

[Amelia]

This could become an interesting dynamic. Might be able to get 4 flippers in a 53-GOP Senate when they couldn't even get 1 flipper in a 50-GOP Senate.

Those few people in the center who wanted to stand up for traditional American and senatorial values also didn't want to be hanging out there alone.

With less hanging in the balance for just one flip, might get one then two then four more often than when every senator was told they would ruin things if a single one defected.



Of course, it's possible we might just get one or two so they can tell their constituents back home that they didn't vote for hated bills, but maybe, just maybe, we can get a new moderate coalition.

 

[azgreg]

Maybe.

It is the start of a insurrection, though; the first crack, so to speak. But yes, it is a long way to cloture with only a finite number of GOP Sens being in purple states.

But one of my questions in my OP commentary, is:

"Can they reach the level for cloture?"

Do you have an opinion?

I think that if McConnell put it on the floor right now it would pass.

 

[chuckiechan]

Source: Denver Gazette) Sen. Cory Gardner calls on Congress to end shutdown without border deal

O.K., Gardner flipped yesterday, and Collins soon followed. That's two GOP senators down, out of four needed for the actual budget vote - to get it to the President's desk.

Others I see as possibilities:

1] McSally (AZ) - She's in a very vulnerable position, so I'd keep an eye on her.

2] Murkowski (AK) - Always a wildcard, and Collin's sidekick in matters like this.

3] Romney (UT) - A wildcard now, due to his recent op-ed & Utah's anti-Trump Republicanism.

So who else might I be missing? That might be teetering, or in a precarious position? Could this grow into a political force within the Senate? Can they reach the level for cloture? And what about Manchin? Will he be a reliable 'D' vote? It sure is getting interesting!

The Chamber of Commerce is on a full court press, and so are many "business roundtable" types. They want labor. They don't care where it comes from. If they don't get it they have to start training the dregs of American society for jobs. They send a lot of money to congress critters.

I've been there. Mexicans are mostly a trouble free workforce, they "self police". Drunks and drug users and sidelined and sent packing by their own peers. "Where's Julio?" "He had to split. His mom got sick." "Gee. Sorry to hear that. I hope she recovers." LOL. That happens all the time.

Plus they aren't as scary as ex-con's. (That's a story for another post sometime.)

The "low hanging fruit" is already working. If they really gave a damn, cities and businesses would work out a plan to use work buses to get people to jobs beyond public transportation. There aren't too many factories in down town Detroit.

 

[Chomsky]

This could become an interesting dynamic. Might be able to get 4 flippers in a 53-GOP Senate when they couldn't even get 1 flipper in a 50-GOP Senate.

Those few people in the center who wanted to stand up for traditional American and senatorial values also didn't want to be hanging out there alone.

With less hanging in the balance for just one flip, might get one then two then four more often than when every senator was told they would ruin things if a single one defected.



Of course, it's possible we might just get one or two so they can tell their constituents back home that they didn't vote for hated bills, but maybe, just maybe, we can get a new moderate coalition.

Well, there's a lot of GOP Sens up for re-election come 2020. I suspect the recent blue wave House election gives them at least some pause.

 

[Chomsky]

I think that if McConnell put it on the floor right now it would pass.

Wow, that's further than I considered. But now that you mention it, it is possible. They may just be holding-out, waiting for McConnell's word. Maybe.

 

[Samhain]

Wow, that's further than I considered. But now that you mention it, it is possible. They may just be holding-out, waiting for McConnell's word. Maybe.

Still need about 50 House republicans to override the veto. Seems to me this will last quite some time.

 

[Chomsky]

As I see it, the ultimate decision on when to end the shutdown rests solely with two people, Mitch McConnell and Donald Trump.

I think Cloture (Rule 22) is probably only possible with McConnell"s assent.

I agree. Though behind closed doors, those purple state GOP senators could pressure him. 2020 is a long way off, but McConnell knows he's got a lot of seats coming-up open.

 

[Chomsky]

The Chamber of Commerce is on a full court press, and so are many "business roundtable" types. They want labor. They don't care where it comes from. If they don't get it they have to start training the dregs of American society for jobs. They send a lot of money to congress critters.

I've been there. Mexicans are mostly a trouble free workforce, they "self police". Drunks and drug users and sidelined and sent packing by their own peers. "Where's Julio?" "He had to split. His mom got sick." "Gee. Sorry to hear that. I hope she recovers." LOL. That happens all the time.

Plus they aren't as scary as ex-con's. (That's a story for another post sometime.)

The "low hanging fruit" is already working. If they really gave a damn, cities and businesses would work out a plan to use work buses to get people to jobs beyond public transportation. There aren't too many factories in down town Detroit.

Thanks for this input, in bringing-in another perspective.

You may indeed have a point with the Chamber of Commerce. Because it was the donors threatening to pull the strings, that gave the GOP the incentive to make the final successful push for the corporate tax cut bill.

 

[chuckiechan]

Maybe.

It is the start of a insurrection, though; the first crack, so to speak. But yes, it is a long way to cloture with only a finite number of GOP Sens being in purple states.

But one of my questions in my OP commentary, is:

"Can they reach the level for cloture?"

Do you have an opinion?

Here's how it works.

The House sends to the Senate. If it's a bill the president won't sign, it dies there. Why make Senators go on record for something that won't happen? The House only want to go on record for their base. They know it's dead.

Simply put, in less argumentative legislation, the House sends to the Senate - who might empower a bi partisan House and Senate committee to study the bill to find a way to make it pass the House, Senate, and get signed. Most of the stuff you don't hear about is done that way. Pelosi. McConnel, both seamlessly move from outrage and over my dead body on bill A, to let's chat on bill B before their second cup of coffee.

The big issues are fought for the cameras. When it's big like "immigration reform", it's going nowhere. It's Kabuki. Business interest want cheap labor so they don't have to raise prices.

They don't have the votes for cloture, if they did they would have written a better bill.

 

[Chomsky]

Still need about 50 House republicans to override the veto. Seems to me this will last quite some time.

Actually, I wasn't even thinking that far. Putting a bill on Trump's desk is a huge move. That alone would greatly change the dynamics. I'm thinking if/when McConnell folds, the whole thing soon implodes.

(or maybe explodes! :2razz

 

[Chomsky]

Still need about 50 House republicans to override the veto. Seems to me this will last quite some time.

Actually, the number is 20.

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

The Chamber of Commerce is on a full court press, and so are many "business roundtable" types. They want labor. They don't care where it comes from. If they don't get it they have to start training the dregs of American society for jobs. They send a lot of money to congress critters.

I've been there. Mexicans are mostly a trouble free workforce, they "self police". Drunks and drug users and sidelined and sent packing by their own peers. "Where's Julio?" "He had to split. His mom got sick." "Gee. Sorry to hear that. I hope she recovers." LOL. That happens all the time.

Plus they aren't as scary as ex-con's. (That's a story for another post sometime.)

The "low hanging fruit" is already working. If they really gave a damn, cities and businesses would work out a plan to use work buses to get people to jobs beyond public transportation. There aren't too many factories in down town Detroit.

Does not public transportation reek of socialism?

 

[Fletch]

As I see it, the ultimate decision on when to end the shutdown rests solely with two people, Mitch McConnell and Donald Trump.

Thats not true at all. Do you not realize that dems can end this too? They can. But they wont, so why should the GOP?

 

[Rogue Valley]

Wow, that's further than I considered. But now that you mention it, it is possible. They may just be holding-out, waiting for McConnell's word. Maybe.

And McConnell is waiting on Trumps assent. Remember, nothing here proceeds unless McConnell is certain Trumps wants to proceed.

In essence, McConnell is allowing President Trump to control the Senate brake pedal. This is directly oppositional to the separation of powers doctrine in the Constitution.

 

[Samhain]

Actually, the number is 20.

Don't you need 290(235+55)?

 

[Chomsky]

And McConnell is waiting on Trumps assent. Remember, nothing here proceeds unless McConnell is certain Trumps wants to proceed.

In essence, McConnell is allowing President Trump to control the Senate brake pedal. This is directly oppositional to the separation of powers doctrine in the Constitution.

I agree. However, there's no guarantee McConnell can continue to stand if he feels insurmountable heat from his vulnerable Senators. That hasn't happened yet, and it may not fully occur. But it's possible. Something has to eventually break somewhere.

BTW, nice job getting "brake" pedal right. It sounds like a minor deal, but I can't tell you how many times I've seen it spelled "break"! :2razz:

 

[Chomsky]

Don't you need 290(235+55)?

Sorry Samhain, I was focused on the Senate and missed that you were speaking of the House. Thank's for the correction.

 

[Rogue Valley]

I agree. However, there's no guarantee McConnell can continue to stand if he feels insurmountable heat from his vulnerable Senators. That hasn't happened yet, and it may not fully occur. But it's possible. Something has to eventually break somewhere.

BTW, nice job getting "brake" pedal right. It sounds like a minor deal, but I can't tell you how many times I've seen it spelled "break"! :2razz:

Schumer: McConnell is 'abdicating his responsibility' in shutdown talks

 

[tres borrachos]

This could become an interesting dynamic. Might be able to get 4 flippers in a 53-GOP Senate when they couldn't even get 1 flipper in a 50-GOP Senate.

Those few people in the center who wanted to stand up for traditional American and senatorial values also didn't want to be hanging out there alone.

With less hanging in the balance for just one flip, might get one then two then four more often than when every senator was told they would ruin things if a single one defected.



Of course, it's possible we might just get one or two so they can tell their constituents back home that they didn't vote for hated bills, but maybe, just maybe, we can get a new moderate coalition.

You've just described my 2019 fantasy.

 

[tres borrachos]

Well, there's a lot of GOP Sens up for re-election come 2020. I suspect the recent blue wave House election gives them at least some pause.

Absolutely right. There are a lot of them up for re-election in 2020 (unlike in 2018) and they aren't stupid. They saw what happened in the House elections. They will protect their own bacon if they have to. They aren't going to be the mindless drones they were in 2016 and 2018.