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Self-Professed ‘Bible Scholar’ Makes Explosive Allegation About Jesus

Hatuey

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Self-Professed ‘Bible Scholar’ Makes Explosive Allegation About Jesus

Rather than a theology, Atwill believes that Christianity was concocted as a government project that was used to control Roman citizens. During a time in which Jewish residents were waiting for their Messiah, he says they were a constant source of insurrection, leading the Romans to seek out an equalizing and tempering force.


"When the Romans had exhausted conventional means of quashing rebellion, they switched to psychological warfare," Atwill explains in the press release. "They surmised that the way to stop the spread of zealous Jewish missionary activity was to create a competing belief system."


And that's when Jesus was allegedly created - a man who advocated peace rather than violence. Atwill contends that the Christ that billions embrace never actually existed and that he is a "fictional character."


He bases his theory on a study of "Wars of the Jews," a book by Josephus, a scholar who provided insight and documentation first-century Judea. The historian contends that the prophesies of Jesus line up with Josephus' writings about the Jewish-Roman war and are, thus, proof that "the biography of Jesus is actually constructed, tip to stern, on prior stories, but especially on the biography of a Roman Caesar."

Let me start off by saying that I am as big an atheist as they come. I have no belief in gods or any mythology associated with them. I choose facts and empirical evidence over faith. However, I find there is a strong amount of evidence from both primary and secondary sources to support the claims of a figured called Jesus during the 1st century C.E. Not only do I find there is a strong amount of evidence, I would even concede he was, in his time, a moderately popular religious figure.

That said, we now enter a path led by people both secular and religious who do not understand how researching works. Every time I turn on the History Channel there is some ridiculous show promoting Atlantis, aliens or bigfoot. Every time I hear some Christian on TV telling millions that humans and dinosaurs walk together, I cringe. Every time I read about the latest Muslim scholar proclaiming that Islamic scholars in the 5th century understood the workings of the Big Bang, I laugh. Every time I hear some hippie claim that Mayans/Aztecs/Nostradamus predicted great catastrophes in the 21st century, I simply walk away.

This is the abomination we've been lead to by allowing anybody to call their copy & paste jobs "theories". We now live in a world where the most spurious associations of secondary sources can be considered to be enough for a "theory". The media in general has been invaded by a freemarket phylosophy. If it's stupid but it sells, it's not stupid. The media has ignored the work of objective scientists (due to what I think is lack of attention grabbing headlines) and put any idiot on the stage to sell his latest book and documentary. I suspect it is because journals in these disciplines are at times boring to read. It's simply easier and far more profitable to grab the magical bits of a story put them in a blender and sell it to the highest bidding TV network.
 
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Risky Thicket

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Self-Professed ‘Bible Scholar’ Makes Explosive Allegation About Jesus



Let me start off by saying that I am as big an atheist as they come. I have no belief in gods or any mythology associated with them. I choose facts and empirical evidence over faith. However, I find there is a strong amount of evidence from both primary and secondary sources to support the claims of a figured called Jesus during the 1st century C.E. Not only do I find there is a strong amount of evidence, I would even concede he was, in his time, a moderately popular religious figure.

That said, we now enter a path led by people both secular and religious who do not understand how researching works. Every time I turn on the History Channel there is some ridiculous show promoting Atlantis, aliens or bigfoot. Every time I hear some Christian on TV telling millions that humans and dinosaurs walk together, I cringe. Every time I read about the latest Muslim scholar proclaiming that Islamic scholars in the 5th century understood the workings of the Big Bang, I laugh. Every time I hear some hippie claim that Mayans/Aztecs/Nostradamus predicted great catastrophes in the 21st century, I simply walk away.

This is the abomination we've been lead to by allowing anybody to call their copy & paste jobs "theories". We now live in a world where the most spurious associations of secondary sources can be considered to be enough for a "theory". The media in general has been invaded by a freemarket phylosophy. If it's stupid but it sells, it's not stupid. The media has ignored the work of objective scientists (due to what I think is lack of attention grabbing headlines) and put any idiot on the stage to sell his latest book and documentary. I suspect it is because journals in these disciplines are at times boring to read. It's simply easier and far more profitable to grab the magical bits of a story put them in a blender and sell it to the highest bidding TV network.

I've actually read the book. The argument is compelling and well documented. Atwell is not some half baked crazy who threw a bunch of crap together to pen a schlock based book.
 

Erod

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Once upon a time, there was this atom. No one knew where it came from, nor did they know where the space it existed in came from. No one knew that there was this magical set of "rules" that made stuff do stuff the same way over and over and over.

Then, one day, the atom was walking down the vacuum trail and it bumped into another atom, and..............BOOM!

And that's how the flat screen TV and the internet were created. It's also where classical music and quantum physics were derived, not to mention the invention of peanut butter and jelly.

It was all just a big accident.

The end.
 

AGENT J

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while interesting this isne even the first to hear of this


what is a FACT is that there were other religions with the same basic story line, wise men, birth of jesus (or like character) BEFORE and DURING Christianity.

So with that fact the likelihood of Christianity being true/accurate is actually VERY VERY small and more than likely not true at all timeline wise/story wise.

but that does not mean theres no god and religion is wrong etc just the "stories" are greatly inaccurate and false.

I still have faith in my religion and its basic principles but unlike many i use my religion properly.
My religion is for ME and thats it, its a tool used to guide me to what i perceive as a well being.
It is NEVER used solely for pure judgment or forced on others.

Only complete morons do that and this common mistake is responsible for more bloodshed on this planet than anything else.
 

TheNextEra

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Once upon a time, there was this atom. No one knew where it came from, nor did they know where the space it existed in came from. No one knew that there was this magical set of "rules" that made stuff do stuff the same way over and over and over.

Then, one day, the atom was walking down the vacuum trail and it bumped into another atom, and..............BOOM!

And that's how the flat screen TV and the internet were created. It's also where classical music and quantum physics were derived, not to mention the invention of peanut butter and jelly.

It was all just a big accident.

The end.

What I find interesting is the need for some people to "rationalize" the unknown into "God did it". Specifically they even go further to say a "Christian, Muslim, etc God did it". There are so many other possilibities other than "No God" or "Christian, Muslim God" yet people are stuck on finite possibilities. Other choices include "A God (Or Gods) created the world and left it", "Multiple Gods here now", etc. Why is it that people cannot accept any of those, but choose to "follow like lemmings" into a nice fitting group like Christianity or Islam, etc?

What makes Christianity or Islam any more rational than the choices I just listed?
 

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Self-Professed ‘Bible Scholar’ Makes Explosive Allegation About Jesus



Let me start off by saying that I am as big an atheist as they come. I have no belief in gods or any mythology associated with them. I choose facts and empirical evidence over faith. However, I find there is a strong amount of evidence from both primary and secondary sources to support the claims of a figured called Jesus during the 1st century C.E. Not only do I find there is a strong amount of evidence, I would even concede he was, in his time, a moderately popular religious figure.

That said, we now enter a path led by people both secular and religious who do not understand how researching works. Every time I turn on the History Channel there is some ridiculous show promoting Atlantis, aliens or bigfoot. Every time I hear some Christian on TV telling millions that humans and dinosaurs walk together, I cringe. Every time I read about the latest Muslim scholar proclaiming that Islamic scholars in the 5th century understood the workings of the Big Bang, I laugh. Every time I hear some hippie claim that Mayans/Aztecs/Nostradamus predicted great catastrophes in the 21st century, I simply walk away.

This is the abomination we've been lead to by allowing anybody to call their copy & paste jobs "theories". We now live in a world where the most spurious associations of secondary sources can be considered to be enough for a "theory". The media in general has been invaded by a freemarket phylosophy. If it's stupid but it sells, it's not stupid. The media has ignored the work of objective scientists (due to what I think is lack of attention grabbing headlines) and put any idiot on the stage to sell his latest book and documentary. I suspect it is because journals in these disciplines are at times boring to read. It's simply easier and far more profitable to grab the magical bits of a story put them in a blender and sell it to the highest bidding TV network.

For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't, no proof is enough.

We'll never know the answer. If we're smart, we'll err on the safe side. ;)
 

Hatuey

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what is a FACT is that there were other religions with the same basic story line, wise men, birth of jesus (or like character) BEFORE and DURING Christianity.

I'm not speaking about the more faith based aspects of a religion. I'm talking about what we do know is fact. We know there is was a historical figure named Jesus. You don't even have to be a Christian to accept that fact. What people have added on to him (Mathew) is irrelevant. This guy is basically saying Jesus never existed to begin with.
 

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while interesting this isne even the first to hear of this


what is a FACT is that there were other religions with the same basic story line, wise men, birth of jesus (or like character) BEFORE and DURING Christianity.

So with that fact the likelihood of Christianity being true/accurate is actually VERY VERY small and more than likely not true at all timeline wise/story wise.

but that does not mean theres no god and religion is wrong etc just the "stories" are greatly inaccurate and false.

I still have faith in my religion and its basic principles but unlike many i use my religion properly.
My religion is for ME and thats it, its a tool used to guide me to what i perceive as a well being.
It is NEVER used solely for pure judgment or forced on others.

Only complete morons do that and this common mistake is responsible for more bloodshed on this planet than anything else.

There were hundreds of professed messiahs during the time. And many had followings. Yet only one had staying power, and not only staying power, but growth in every direction, among the wealthy and poor, scholars and illiterates, kings and paupers, and in virtually every language.

A faith grew that has become the most accepting, most charitable, most loving, and most goodwilled religion the planet has seen. It's survived the multiple attempts to hijack it and twist it for evil, and it's always corrected and exposed those who tried.

It is the strongest and most loving power this earth has ever seen.
 

sangha

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What I find interesting is the need for some people to "rationalize" the unknown into "God did it". Specifically they even go further to say a "Christian, Muslim, etc God did it". There are so many other possilibities other than "No God" or "Christian, Muslim God" yet people are stuck on finite possibilities. Other choices include "A God (Or Gods) created the world and left it", "Multiple Gods here now", etc. Why is it that people cannot accept any of those, but choose to "follow like lemmings" into a nice fitting group like Christianity or Islam, etc?

What makes Christianity or Islam any more rational than the choices I just listed?

IMO, the most rational possibility is that the universe has always existed. How rational is the idea that the universe just "poofed" its' way into existence, either through God or through some natural phenomena?
 

AGENT J

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I'm not speaking about the more faith based aspects of a religion. I'm talking about what we do know is fact. We know there is was a historical figure named Jesus. You don't even have to be a Christian to accept that fact. What people have added on to him (Mathew) is irrelevant. This guy is basically saying Jesus never existed to begin with.

sorry if you thought i was talking directly at you or your own words, i was not, thats why i didnt quote you.
i was simply addressing the article and what has come out before the article.

but to address just what you said,(after i go back and read the earlier part with this post) i understand what the guy was saying and he could very well be right depending on ones definition of Jesus

like you said, did some guy named jesus exist who was a religious figure? very possible, seems to be the case
but also just like you said did some guy named jesus with all the extras, water to wine, son of god or even more specifically christian god. theres nothing factual that supports that.

there was no real disagreement with your words
 

AGENT J

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There were hundreds of professed messiahs during the time. And many had followings. Yet only one had staying power, and not only staying power, but growth in every direction, among the wealthy and poor, scholars and illiterates, kings and paupers, and in virtually every language.

A faith grew that has become the most accepting, most charitable, most loving, and most goodwilled religion the planet has seen. It's survived the multiple attempts to hijack it and twist it for evil, and it's always corrected and exposed those who tried.

It is the strongest and most loving power this earth has ever seen.

thats a great opinion you are allowed to have
 

Deuce

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There were hundreds of professed messiahs during the time. And many had followings. Yet only one had staying power, and not only staying power, but growth in every direction, among the wealthy and poor, scholars and illiterates, kings and paupers, and in virtually every language.

A faith grew that has become the most accepting, most charitable, most loving, and most goodwilled religion the planet has seen. It's survived the multiple attempts to hijack it and twist it for evil, and it's always corrected and exposed those who tried.

It is the strongest and most loving power this earth has ever seen.

You could just as easily be describing Aerosmith.
 

Hatuey

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sorry if you thought i was talking directly at you or your own words, i was not, thats why i didnt quote you.
i was simply addressing the article and what has come out before the article.

but to address just what you said,(after i go back and read the earlier part with this post) i understand what the guy was saying and he could very well be right depending on ones definition of Jesus

like you said, did some guy named jesus exist who was a religious figure? very possible, seems to be the case
but also just like you said did some guy named jesus with all the extras, water to wine, son of god or even more specifically christian god. theres nothing factual that supports that.

there was no real disagreement with your words

Even if the miracles attributed to him aren't true, and let's face it, there are so many "facts" attributed to historical figures that are simply untrue, it doesn't begin to excuse writing Jesus out of history by claiming he's an invention. I think he's being lazy in ignoring all the evidence which does support Jesus' existence as a historical figure. The worst part is aligning his life with that of a Roman Caesar. I could see why Romans would want to embrace Jesus. By the 3rd century the cult of Christ had already reached Rome. However, I just don't see the need to take it a bit further and make his existence into one big conspiracy. So in a sense, the Romans empire had an interest in aggrandizing Jesus but I don't see the need in inventing him.
 

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You could just as easily be describing Aerosmith.

even as a Christian myself that almost made me spit out my drink!!!!


HILARIOUS!!!
 
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Hatuey

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There were hundreds of professed messiahs during the time. And many had followings. Yet only one had staying power, and not only staying power, but growth in every direction, among the wealthy and poor, scholars and illiterates, kings and paupers, and in virtually every language.

A faith grew that has become the most accepting, most charitable, most loving, and most goodwilled religion the planet has seen. It's survived the multiple attempts to hijack it and twist it for evil, and it's always corrected and exposed those who tried.

It is the strongest and most loving power this earth has ever seen.

Yeah, Islam is great.
 

AGENT J

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1.) Even if the miracles attributed to him aren't true, and let's face it, there are so many "facts" attributed to historical figures that are simply untrue, it doesn't begin to excuse writing Jesus out of history by claiming he's an invention.
2.)I think he's being lazy in ignoring all the evidence which does support Jesus' existence as a historical figure.
3.) The worst part is aligning his life with that of a Roman Caesar. I could see why Romans would want to embrace Jesus. By the 3rd century the cult of Christ had already reached Rome. However, I just don't see the need to take it a bit further and make his existence into one big conspiracy. So in a sense, the Romans empire had an interest in aggrandizing Jesus but I don't see the need in inventing him.

1.) again i personally would write him out of "history" but many facets of him do seem to be pure invention, but this is also true for chuck Norris and i wouldnt write him out of history either.
2.) maybe, i think he has a very specifi goal and thats to show the "extras" are crap but that is just my opinion and nothing else
3.) again see #2 i think the goal is only about "Jesus 2.0" as i will refer to him for this talk lol and not Jesus Lite. But again just my opinon, we'd have to ask this dude exactly what he is getting at on all levels.
 

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There were hundreds of professed messiahs during the time. And many had followings. Yet only one had staying power, and not only staying power, but growth in every direction, among the wealthy and poor, scholars and illiterates, kings and paupers, and in virtually every language.

A faith grew that has become the most accepting, most charitable, most loving, and most goodwilled religion the planet has seen. It's survived the multiple attempts to hijack it and twist it for evil, and it's always corrected and exposed those who tried.

It is the strongest and most loving power this earth has ever seen.

Great post.
 

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What I find interesting is the need for some people to "rationalize" the unknown into "God did it". Specifically they even go further to say a "Christian, Muslim, etc God did it". There are so many other possilibities other than "No God" or "Christian, Muslim God" yet people are stuck on finite possibilities. Other choices include "A God (Or Gods) created the world and left it", "Multiple Gods here now", etc. Why is it that people cannot accept any of those, but choose to "follow like lemmings" into a nice fitting group like Christianity or Islam, etc?

What makes Christianity or Islam any more rational than the choices I just listed?

The same could be said for non-believers, as well.
 

TheNextEra

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The same could be said for non-believers, as well.

You mean atheists? Absolutely, that is why I said (in bold):

There are so many other possibilities other than "No God" or "Christian, Muslim God" yet people are stuck on finite possibilities
 

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