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Seeking turntable advice

OldFatGuy

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It's been a long time since I've researched turntables, one of my nephews is seeking advice. Budget $400us

Requirements 45 and 33 1/3 playback

auto arm

belt drive

quality cartridge

built in equalization for any jack

USB connection

Already examined and rejected Denon 300f, inaccurate variable speeds
 
When I am interested in buying something that I know little about, I start with an internet search for "best [specific product] reviews". In this case - "best turntables under $300 reviews":

Best Turntables Under $300 | Top 10 (2018) | Record Player Pros

You may have to get more product details (from the manufacture's website) to assure that it has every feature that you want but these (independent?) product review sites seem to narrow it down nicely.
 
I don't know that much on the technical aspects, but if you want to be where it's at, then you need 2 turntables and a microphone.
 
"Turntable with USB."

:lol:

Maybe you could find one with an i7 processor.





(joking)
 
I don't know that much on the technical aspects, but if you want to be where it's at, then you need 2 turntables and a microphone.

Sounds like a song I know.
 
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WTF is a “turntable?”
 
Of course ANY analog audio source can be MADE USB compatible if you purchase something like the
Behringer U-Control UCA222 USB DA converter.
If 16-bit is enough to float your boat, this 30 dollar DA converter will do the job.

Of course the Akai BT-500, a $1299 woodcrafted beauty, offers both USB and Bluetooth streaming plus for your extra money you get a 67db S/N ratio, head and shoulders above most competitor's 50 db rating.
Unfortunately it's a belt drive, which doesn't float my boat but you might be okay with it...or not.
 
Of course ANY analog audio source can be MADE USB compatible if you purchase something like the
Behringer U-Control UCA222 USB DA converter.
If 16-bit is enough to float your boat, this 30 dollar DA converter will do the job.

Of course the Akai BT-500, a $1299 woodcrafted beauty, offers both USB and Bluetooth streaming plus for your extra money you get a 67db S/N ratio, head and shoulders above most competitor's 50 db rating.
Unfortunately it's a belt drive, which doesn't float my boat but you might be okay with it...or not.

Why is belt drive bad? Stretching?
 
As it happens, pretty much all 24-bit DAC's output to SPDIF, optical or AES/EBU and most of them also restrict the inputs to balanced XLR although a few of them do offer unbal RCA.

My own AJA Kona external interface doesn't offer the USB out but it's okay because I route the RCA to the Behringer, and the AES/EBU directly to my internal sound card, so I am covered on all fronts.

I also have a Cambridge unit that allows my turntable to route into a mixer which outputs balanced XLR analog to go TO the AJA Kona, so that's how my turntable plumbing works. Since I don't generally do any live turntable use I don't mind that it's restricted to my edit bay, because I digitize my vinyl anyway.
Bit rate and bit depth, keep em both up at the top and you don't lose anything.

FLAC or Broadcast WAV works nice. MP320 can even work if you feel like cheating.
I've gotten away with cheating with MP320 in a broadcast setting.
 
i'm also looking for a new turntable. i have a really good one, but i noticed the other day that it is slowing down and the pitch is off. it still works and my wife didn't notice, but that would kind of drive me nuts. i've had it since 2002, so that's not a bad run.
 
Why is belt drive bad? Stretching?

Not everyone thinks it's bad, some will even defend it, and I don't like starting fights over it.
I happen to think direct drive has better wow and flutter but a belt drive fan will simply say that if you change your belts regularly a belt drive unit will match DD specs.
Maybe...I just hate having to take apart turntables and hunt for rubber belts. :lol:

Same with cassette and reel decks, and even VTR's...I've always made the move to direct drive on all of them when possible.
When everyone else was loving on the old SONY broadcast BetaCam and 3/4 Umatic VTR's I went with the JVC's because their reel motors didn't have belts, they were direct drive.

When I owned a VCR duplicating business, all my duplicator VCR's were direct drive.
(Also JVC's)
 
i'm also looking for a new turntable. i have a really good one, but i noticed the other day that it is slowing down and the pitch is off. it still works and my wife didn't notice, but that would kind of drive me nuts. i've had it since 2002, so that's not a bad run.

For the money you just can't beat the Audio-Technicas. Damn near every pro DJ in the world has been using them for almost a quarter century and those units get beat up pretty badly and still work like a champ.
Panasonic made really good Technics turntables but Audio-Technicas still beat them hands down at least in terms of durability.
Again we're talking about that specific price range.

I'm an old dinosaur so I remember back when a real professional broadcast turntable had to have "washing machine" motors (not really) and they weighed 50 pounds, LOL.

 
Not everyone thinks it's bad, some will even defend it, and I don't like starting fights over it.
I happen to think direct drive has better wow and flutter but a belt drive fan will simply say that if you change your belts regularly a belt drive unit will match DD specs.
Maybe...I just hate having to take apart turntables and hunt for rubber belts. :lol:

Same with cassette and reel decks, and even VTR's...I've always made the move to direct drive on all of them when possible.
When everyone else was loving on the old SONY broadcast BetaCam and 3/4 Umatic VTR's I went with the JVC's because their reel motors didn't have belts, they were direct drive.

When I owned a VCR duplicating business, all my duplicator VCR's were direct drive.
(Also JVC's)

I would think with Kevlar and similar type belts you wouldn't have to worry about stretching as the fibers are high tensile strength with a much lower modulus of elasticity than a strait rubber belt. Oh well. Direct drive is definitely simpler, which usually means more reliable. Interesting stuff.
 
I would think with Kevlar and similar type belts you wouldn't have to worry about stretching as the fibers are high tensile strength with a much lower modulus of elasticity than a strait rubber belt. Oh well. Direct drive is definitely simpler, which usually means more reliable. Interesting stuff.

Not every mfr is offering direct replacement kevlar belts, although I am sure they are all the rage if you can get one that fits your units. Look, I have enjoyed owning some of the most wonderful machines ever made which used belts, so it's not like I was always such a dork :lamo

But the heartbreak/headache of waking up one day to find that you're going to have disassemble something instead of use it when you were going to get paid to use it finally started to cost me too much, both in money and opportunity.
I lost out on a chance to shoot an interview with Joan Rivers because of a broken drive belt on a VTR...that cinched it for me a long time ago.

You know, part of me misses the romance and elegance of all these old machines. I was a reel to reel audio fan forever and I still have miles and miles of tapes. But I am relieved that we've finally entered the file based era.
Those old machines are beautiful, and they were a lot of fun to operate, but in the end it is acquiring and working with the recorded material itself that brings me the most joy, and the sheer genius of being able to do so with NO moving parts is something I cannot deny.
Sure, now the gear all looks like soulless boxes and there's no elegance anymore.
SD cards don't look cool the way a big ole 10.5 inch reel of 15 ips tape does.

And I've made my living off of restored material from AMPEX 2-inch videotape.
Try one of those twenty pound reels on for size...

REELandDVD.jpg

And here's a couple of machines that play those reels:

AMPEXVTR6702.jpg

But still, I am in awe of high definition digital video and file based storage, it is nothing short of amazing.
 
Audio-Technica AT-LP120 Direct Drive USB Professional Turntable

The only fault I can find is that it doesn't offer 24-bit DA, but then again it's a sub-$300 turntable, so if you want to go north of that 300 bucks you can find 24-bit capability, no doubt.

Full specs here

This was my first choice, his buy, not mine. After he reminded me he inherited from another uncle on his mother's side of the family, a superb vinyl collection of Al Jareau, John and Alice Coltrane, Rahsaan Roland Kirk, the Adderly Broths, and so on in excellent condition the lack of noise presented by belt drives as compared to direct drive is significant to him, a professional musician himself. I suggested a rebuilt LynnSondek. Too expensive at $600 plus cartridge. His latest album brought him >$800k post taxes, >$2.7 mil post tax on tour. He's 22.

I'm more than satisfied with my old Thorens and Dual decks that get the job done. I offered him from me my AR for free, entirely rebuilt two years ago with a Lynn Arm. What do I know, 39k records collected, playing guitar decently since 1962?
 
Just noting, these days I record directly with Garage Band, a mid 2011 iMac and mikes by Shure, strictly acoustic guitars and voices.
 
This was my first choice, his buy, not mine. After he reminded me he inherited from another uncle on his mother's side of the family, a superb vinyl collection of Al Jareau, John and Alice Coltrane, Rahsaan Roland Kirk, the Adderly Broths, and so on in excellent condition the lack of noise presented by belt drives as compared to direct drive is significant to him, a professional musician himself. I suggested a rebuilt LynnSondek. Too expensive at $600 plus cartridge. His latest album brought him >$800k post taxes, >$2.7 mil post tax on tour. He's 22.

I'm more than satisfied with my old Thorens and Dual decks that get the job done. I offered him from me my AR for free, entirely rebuilt two years ago with a Lynn Arm. What do I know, 39k records collected, playing guitar decently since 1962?

It'd be interesting to see noise measurements from an Audio-Technica.
I'm guessing it's little to none. It's a DC motor if I'm not mistaken.
 
It'd be interesting to see noise measurements from an Audio-Technica.
I'm guessing it's little to none. It's a DC motor if I'm not mistaken.

Yup direct drive. Always that slightly noticeable hum. I may be nuts, but I can blind fold hear the differences between AT units with Thorens, about 4 db of rumble, can't do with belt drive units alone, buy I can't identify belt drive units. Psychological?

I own two early Teac and Revox tape units, identical machines for masters. I can always determine which is which from the tape. One of each brand has one direct drive motor vs a belt drive. Sandy Greene would slip in masters from a Grundig, and I'd identify them. Grundig's units were direct drive.
 
Yup direct drive. Always that slightly noticeable hum. I may be nuts, but I can blind fold hear the differences between AT units with Thorens, about 4 db of rumble, can't do with belt drive units alone, buy I can't identify belt drive units. Psychological?

I own two early Teac and Revox tape units, identical machines for masters. I can always determine which is which from the tape. One of each brand has one direct drive motor vs a belt drive. Sandy Greene would slip in masters from a Grundig, and I'd identify them. Grundig's units were direct drive.

The A77 ReVox is a direct drive 3-motor unit and I wager you'd be hard pressed to identify any rumble.
Again, I'm referring to direct current direct drive. I'm hard pressed to figure out where any rumble would come from a DC motor. Same with the TEAC direct drive decks, of which the A3340S was one of my favorites, now awaiting an overhaul.

I haven't been near a Thorens since 1978 when I was working at KCHK in New Prague, MN.
That station had less transmitter power than my hair dryer, and it was an AM-er so if those old Thorens units rumbled, no one would have picked it up on their AM receivers, but with those old "washing machine motors" I can see how it would be possible.

My hearing above 6K is relatively negligible nowadays but I can still hear the low freqs just fine, with the result being I can usually hear my wife talking just fine, but I often have difficulty making out what she's saying until I get close by...it's the consonants that are missing. I'll wind up with hearing aids eventually.
But I can hear locos in the train yard four miles away when I'm inside the house even with the TV on.

In the end, if you're a fan of belt drive, you're a fan of belt drive.
I just can't stand having to hunt around for parts because these days they're hard to get, and I'm impatient about that stuff.
 
The A77 ReVox is a direct drive 3-motor unit and I wager you'd be hard pressed to identify any rumble.
Again, I'm referring to direct current direct drive. I'm hard pressed to figure out where any rumble would come from a DC motor. Same with the TEAC direct drive decks, of which the A3340S was one of my favorites, now awaiting an overhaul.

I haven't been near a Thorens since 1978 when I was working at KCHK in New Prague, MN.
That station had less transmitter power than my hair dryer, and it was an AM-er so if those old Thorens units rumbled, no one would have picked it up on their AM receivers, but with those old "washing machine motors" I can see how it would be possible.

My hearing above 6K is relatively negligible nowadays but I can still hear the low freqs just fine, with the result being I can usually hear my wife talking just fine, but I often have difficulty making out what she's saying until I get close by...it's the consonants that are missing. I'll wind up with hearing aids eventually.
But I can hear locos in the train yard four miles away when I'm inside the house even with the TV on.

In the end, if you're a fan of belt drive, you're a fan of belt drive.
I just can't stand having to hunt around for parts because these days they're hard to get, and I'm impatient about that stuff.

I don't know why, and I don't want to know why you are creating an argument where none exists. I like Thorens equipment. The company still exists. Whether I do or don't my breakfast cereal tastes good to me or I wouldn't eat it.

I'm looking for advice for a young man about equipment that is on the market today, not your lifelong electronics experience. Advice within his parameters, not a pissing contest.
 
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