Secret Service rush to evacuate Pence from besieged Capitol becomes 'coup' focus

[Athanasius68]

Again, you would need to convince Trump and his minions of this, not your DP forum friends. During the early afternoon of 1/6, Trump was ignoring everyone else, sitting, watching, and waiting for the best moment to declare and then announce martial law, like he was going to save America. Once that happened, all bets are off as to how that scenario ends. At that point, you can take your binary set of options and stick it in a place where the sun rarely shines (I pre-suppose).

Congress either has the power to overturn an election-- or it doesn't.
There are no other options here.
Thus far, the progressives seem to agree with Trump here--- that Congress has that authority.

 

[JMB802]

1. Because Raskin wouldn't be hyperventilating over that which the OP is about. He would be focused about riot conspiracies.

2. Nothing in the stories indicate a riot-- instead its about efforts to contest the election results.
Which thus far, progressives have declined to say doing so is illegal.

I think you need to re-read the first post.

 

[Plasmaball]

The election was "formalized"on 1/7-- at 324AM to be exact.
The world didn't fly off its axis.

The reality is that Congress does not 'certify' an election. Except in one instance, there is nothing affirmative they must do-- or can do-- for a president-elect to officially be the president-elect.
Nor can they do anything-- in any instance- to stop a president elect from being the president elect. That decision is made in December when the electoral college meets in their respective state capitols and vote.
Which they did and they elected Biden.

All Congress does in January is to witness the counting of the votes. Any substantive role-- the one instance-- they have would occur only if no candidate received 270 electoral votes.
But in Dec 2020 that wasn't the case.

The hysteria by Raskin on this story shows how the committee has absolutely nothing of substance to report.

Oh boy Billy barr strikes again.

 

[ataraxia]

Ok-- so Congress can overturn a presidential election if it thinks it is warranted.
Trump thought it was warranted.
The argument you have is that you disagree that it was warranted.
Fair enough.

So its all just power politics-- you would have no objection to Biden trying to d the same IF you believe the cause is correct.

Come on. We know Trump was lying. You know Trump was lying. Why keep playing games? You’d have to be a gullible five-year-old at this point to think Trump doesn’t lie, especially when it comes to his own personal interests, power, and “winning”.

Remember he was threatening to call 2016 election “rigged” as well if he lost. He was also, after all, the same guy who was shamelessly lying for six years straight about Obama’s Secret birth certificate and how you were not going to believe what his top people were finding on it. He was also threatening violence back in 2016 if he lost. Do you remember his little quip about not knowing what those “second amendment types” were going to do if Hillary Clinton won?

Stop acting like anything he says is credible. At this point one would have to be a complete idiot or a gullible young child to think otherwise. I’m sure you’re well aware of that too. So please stop gaslighting.

Almost all those protesters on January 6 likewise knew he was lying. Can’t imagine they were all THAT stupid. It’s just that they liked it and were acting on it- a dangerous, lying, gaslighting narcissist and his enablers.

 

[dockside]

Ok-- so Congress can overturn a presidential election if it thinks it is warranted.
Trump thought it was warranted.
The argument you have is that you disagree that it was warranted.
Fair enough.

So its all just power politics-- you would have no objection to Biden trying to d the same IF you believe the cause is correct.

No, Congress can only change the result (not overturn) the election if the electoral votes are tied. Read your Constitution and stop watching FOX and OAN.

 

[Athanasius68]

I think you need to re-read the first post.

Yeah-- the Secret Service is in on the conspiracy.
Please...

 

[Plasmaball]

Progressives need to make up their mind about all this:

Either Congress HAS the authority to "overturn" an election -- in which case alleged efforts to do so are perfectly legal and in which objections to it are nothing more than politics.
Or Congress does NOT have the authority to "overturn" an election-- in which case objections to alleged efforts to do so are nothing more than politics.

Jesus ****ing hell is this some dishonest hackery.

Could you try any harder to leave out as much context as possible..

This isn't the argument.

 

[Athanasius68]

No, Congress can only change the result (not overturn) the election if the electoral votes are tied. Read your Constitution and stop watching FOX and OAN.

Yes-- thank you.
Biden was president elect regardless of what Congress did.

 

[Athanasius68]

Jesus ****ing hell is this some dishonest hackery.

Could you try any harder to leave out as much context as possible..

This isn't the argument.

Of course it is.
If Congress can overturn an election, then what is the gripe?
If Congress cannot overturn an election, then whats the worry?

 

[CharloTexan]

Congress either has the power to overturn an election-- or it doesn't.
There are no other options here.
Thus far, the progressives seem to agree with Trump here--- that Congress has that authority.

Just keep barking up that tree. Every other dog knows there ain't a squirrel up there.

 

[Athanasius68]

Come on. We know Trump was lying. You know Trump was lying. Why keep playing games? You’d have to be a gullible five-year-old at this point to think Trump doesn’t lie, especially when it comes to his own personal interests, power, and “winning”.

Remember he was threatening to call 2016 election “rigged” as well if he lost. He was also, after all, the same guy who was shamelessly lying for six years straight about Obama’s Secret birth certificate and how you were not going to believe what his top people were finding on it. He was also threatening violence back in 2016 if he lost. Do you remember his little quip about not knowing what those “second amendment types” were going to do if Hillary Clinton won?

Stop acting like anything he says is credible. At this point one would have to be a complete idiot or a gullible young child to think otherwise. I’m sure you’re well aware of that too. So please stop gaslighting.

Almost all those protesters on January 6 likewise knew he was lying. Can’t imagine they were all THAT stupid. It’s just that they liked it and were acting on it- a dangerous, lying, gaslighting narcissist and his enablers.

Ok-- lets put it a different way:
What if Trump had shown there was electoral fraud sufficient to change the results.
Or at least to an extent that reasonable people could could make such a reasonable argument.
Would Congress then have the power to overturn an election?
Or at least to consider doing so?

 

[Plasmaball]

There was no riot plan.
Congress already said that when they impeached Trump for "incitement" of a riot.

As for the rest, the argument by Trump seems to have been that somehow the electors could be kicked back to the states for reconsideration, or that the electors could be summarily thrown out by Pence to reduce the number needed for a majority in the electoral college.
Were they correct?

Of course there was a plan. We are finding out daily how much the groups talked.

 

[dockside]

Yes-- thank you.
Biden was president elect regardless of what Congress did.

I should have added that, altho' that's a fact, Trump and those in government service supporting him didn't believe it or, if they did, knew that his base would believe his lie if he said it or just alluded to it.

 

[Plasmaball]

Of course it is.
If Congress can overturn an election, then what is the gripe?
If Congress cannot overturn an election, then whats the worry?

That's not the argument. You are trying to change the conversation because you can't defend these actions..

I know exactly what you are about. It's the same thing in every Thread

 

[Athanasius68]

I should have added that, altho' that's a fact, Trump and those in government service supporting him didn't believe it or, if they did, knew that his base would believe his lie if he said it or just alluded to it.

It ain't just Trump saying Congress has that power.
Its the progressives hereabout who say the same thing.

 

[Athanasius68]

That's not the argument. You are trying to change the conversation because you can't defend these actions..

I know exactly what you are about. It's the same thing in every Thread

Then what's the argument? That Biden legitimately won the election?
Almost nobody denies that.
Trump does though.
Which is why the argument becomes whether Congress can do anything about 'overturning' an election it thinks was fraudulent.
Do you think Congress can do that?

 

[Plasmaball]

Then what's the argument? That Biden legitimately won the election?
Almost nobody denies that.
Trump does though.
Which is why the argument becomes whether Congress can do anything about 'overturning' an election it thinks was fraudulent.
Do you think Congress can do that?

I'm not explaining it to you again.
You don't care..that's not your agenda here

 

[Athanasius68]

I'm not explaining it to you again.
You don't care..that's not your agenda here

Can't explain something "again" when you haven't explained it a first time.

Does Congress have the authority to 'overturn' a presidential election it thinks was fraudulent?

 

[EMNofSeattle]

People died and you think it was awesome?

Yes, a policeman used unjustifiable deadly force and was protected from even a mock trial.

 

[Plasmaball]

Can't explain something "again" when you haven't explained it a first time.

Does Congress have the authority to 'overturn' a presidential election it thinks was fraudulent?

Sure I have. Not my problem if you don't pay attention.

 

[JMB802]

Yeah-- the Secret Service is in on the conspiracy.
Please...

Will you quote where the OP states that?

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Well, you're the one who said 'sure, they have tried to root out agents with questionable loyalty, but they need to do it again'. Pfffft...

Yabbut that doesn't mean I have my finger on the pulse of goings on inside an elite security organization tasked with protecting POTUS.
Just engaging in some spitballing, so PFFFFFFTTT right back atcha.

 

[ataraxia]

Ok-- lets put it a different way:
What if Trump had shown there was electoral fraud sufficient to change the results.
Or at least to an extent that reasonable people could could make such a reasonable argument.
Would Congress then have the power to overturn an election?
Or at least to consider doing so?

Yeah sure. And what if there was enough evidence that the alien autopsy in Area 51 was real?

Come on. You can stop the nonsense. No one believes this nonsense. Not even Trump’s own supporters.

 

[Top Cat]

One person died and it was one of the rioters.

Bullshit.

These Are the People Who Died in Connection With the Capitol Riot (Published 2022)

A bipartisan Senate report found that at least seven people had lost their lives in connection with the Jan. 6 attack.

www.nytimes.com

 

[reflechissez]

Of course it is.
If Congress can overturn an election, then what is the gripe?
If Congress cannot overturn an election, then whats the worry?

IKR? Storming the capitol is ok.