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'Secret' law lets police arrest for failing to show ID near summit

texmaster

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TORONTO — The Ontario government secretly passed legislation giving police sweeping new powers for the duration of the G8 and G20 summits.

Police are now able to jail anyone who refuses to furnish identification and submit to a search while within five metres of a designated security zone in downtown Toronto.

Critics reacted furiously to the new rules, which remained unpublicized until Thursday when a 32 year-old man was arrested in Toronto for refusing to show ID to police.

New Democrat MPP Peter Kormos said Friday the provincial Liberals created a “Kafka-esque” situation where people could be arrested for violating rules they didn’t know existed.

“This is very very repugnant stuff and should be troubling to everybody,” he said.

The Canadian Civil Liberties Association (CCLA) said it was “extremely concerned” that the new measures violate constitutional safeguards.

Nathalie Des Rosiers, general counsel for the CCLA said the changes are contrary to Canadian law.

“You don’t have any obligation to speak to Canadian police, to give your name or the reasons for your existence unless you’ve done something wrong — unless you’re being detained or arrested,” she said. “So on its face, it’s a dramatic change from what our constitution guarantees.”




Personally I love this new law because it doesn't allow these kids of whom many are there to cause trouble (my evidence is every other world bank meeting) and this allows the police to get the more violent little bastards off the street faster to ensure a peaceful protest.

I'm really at a loss why anyone would object to showing ID to a police officer who requests it. You should always have some form of ID on you. And yes that includes when you are running, biking, walking whatever.

'Secret' law lets police arrest for failing to show ID near summit
 

scottsoperson

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listen. canada is nowhere near as fascist as the usa.
 

Lord Tammerlain

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This law is garbage

The Police work for me, I do not work for the police. The government works for me, not the other way around

Unless the police have a reasonable believe that I have committed an "actual offense" they should not even have the right to look at me funny. The only time I will ever show the police my id is when they have a justifiable reason to see it. Ie I was driving a motor vehicle, I committed an offense, or I am filling a report with the police. Otherwise they can wash my car.

Canada is a free country where the police should not have "secret laws" and the government should not take away the freedoms of Canadians just to make the security of politicians better. If they are concerned about security they can meet up in the Artic on Baffin Island. Very few protesters will be able to get to Baffin Island. The moronic government instead feels it is better to lock down the business district of Canada's largest city for a political gab fest
 

texmaster

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This law is garbage

The Police work for me, I do not work for the police. The government works for me, not the other way around
The police work for the people not individual people.

Unless the police have a reasonable believe that I have committed an "actual offense" they should not even have the right to look at me funny. The only time I will ever show the police my id is when they have a justifiable reason to see it. Ie I was driving a motor vehicle, I committed an offense, or I am filling a report with the police. Otherwise they can wash my car.

Canada is a free country where the police should not have "secret laws" and the government should not take away the freedoms of Canadians just to make the security of politicians better. If they are concerned about security they can meet up in the Artic on Baffin Island. Very few protesters will be able to get to Baffin Island. The moronic government instead feels it is better to lock down the business district of Canada's largest city for a political gab fest
Then elect different congressmen. They created the law.
 

justabubba

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The police work for the people not individual people.
actually, the police work for the government. no citizen should expect a right to police assistance



Then elect different congressmen. They created the law.
agreed, hold their elected representatives to the fire on this
seems they adopted the dicknbush 'free speech zones' up there, too. that is nearly as onerous as being arrested for violation of a law which was intentionally kept secret
 

texmaster

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actually, the police work for the government.
Who are elected by the people.

no citizen should expect a right to police assistance
No idea where you are going with this.

agreed, hold their elected representatives to the fire on this
seems they adopted the dicknbush 'free speech zones' up there, too. that is nearly as onerous as being arrested for violation of a law which was intentionally kept secret
I always love it when liberals like yourself scream about cheney and bush. Can you point to a single right you lost under them that they are responsible for?
 

Lord Tammerlain

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The police work for the people not individual people.
Correct, they work for the people, of which I am one of. As such they work for me and many other people

Then elect different congressmen. They created the law.
Members of Parliament are our elected officials in Canada
 

texmaster

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Correct, they work for the people, of which I am one of. As such they work for me and many other people
But not only you. Why are you do against having idenitification on you?

Members of Parliament are our elected officials in Canada
Right. So complain to them
 

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I'm really at a loss why anyone would object to showing ID to a police officer who requests it. You should always have some form of ID on you. And yes that includes when you are running, biking, walking whatever.
Why? What gives the state the right to demand identification if one is not committing a crime?
 
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texmaster

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Why? What gives the state the right to demand identification if one is not committing a crime?
It helps them keep others safe. Why is it such a big deal for you to be able to identify yourself when asked?

Do we just assume police are always up to no good and will randomly question people for no reason?
 

Harry Guerrilla

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It helps them keep others safe. Why is it such a big deal for you to be able to identify yourself when asked?

Do we just assume police are always up to no good and will randomly question people for no reason?
The closer you get to the security zone, the more likely it is to happen.

It's not right especially when you may live in that area, no one asked before hand if it was ok.
 

Lord Tammerlain

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But not only you. Why are you do against having idenitification on you?



Right. So complain to them
Legal Rights
Life, liberty and security of person

7. Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of the person and the right not to be deprived thereof except in accordance with the principles of fundamental justice.

Search or seizure

8. Everyone has the right to be secure against unreasonable search or seizure.

Detention or imprisonment

9. Everyone has the right not to be arbitrarily detained or imprisoned.
I am against having to legally be required to carry ID based on the above. Which are part of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms
 

Agent Ferris

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It helps them keep others safe.
So would doing random house searches in high crime areas without probable cause or a warrant.

Why is it such a big deal for you to be able to identify yourself when asked?
Because it's a violation of my privacy rights. Do I have the right to go up to you and demand that you hand over your home address, full legal name, social security number, etc etc et al? Why does this suddenly become acceptable behavior because it is done by a power freak with a badge and a gun?

Do we just assume police are always up to no good and will randomly question people for no reason?
We don't have to assume that because they do not have the right to go up and randomly question people for no reason but apparently in Canada they do now have that right. And yes I would assume that if cops had the right to do random stop and search and ID checks they would utilize it any time they wanted.
 

texmaster

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The closer you get to the security zone, the more likely it is to happen.

It's not right especially when you may live in that area, no one asked before hand if it was ok.
So every law should be polled?
 

texmaster

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So would doing random house searches in high crime areas without probable cause or a warrant.
We aren't talking about private property. We are talking about people in public.

Because it's a violation of my privacy rights.
How?

Do I have the right to go up to you and demand that you hand over your home address, full legal name, social security number, etc etc et al? Why does this suddenly become acceptable behavior because it is done by a power freak with a badge and a gun?
When we granted the "power freak" the power to serve and protect the community.

We don't have to assume that because they do not have the right to go up and randomly question people for no reason but apparently in Canada they do now have that right. And yes I would assume that if cops had the right to do random stop and search and ID checks they would utilize it any time they wanted.
Who said it would be random? Do you really think they just picked that 32 year old guy out of the blue and not because of something he was doing or behaving?

I'm sorry but we train the police to be observant and when they excercise that ability we scream privacy rights even while we are in public?
 

Harry Guerrilla

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So every law should be polled?
No but if it's your community, you have a say in what goes on.
If this was not being done prior to the G20 event, it shouldn't be done during the G20.

I know I personally would rather not be hassled, than to have the 1 time novelty of some foreign leaders visiting my area.
I think it's an excellent example of what government is willing to do to it's citizens.
 

Agent Ferris

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We aren't talking about private property. We are talking about people in public.
My body is private property. I as an individual owe no good or service to anyone, if I voluntarily offer my ID upon request that's one thing, but what gives the state the authority to a) demand that I use the capital created through my labour to purchase their ID, b) request that ID anytime they want for no reason whatsoever, and c) imprison me for non-compliance?


What do you mean how? Are you suggesting that your rights wouldn't be violated if I walked up to you on on the street with a gun, demanded that you tell me your full name, address, social security number, etc, and if you refused pulled the gun, put it to your head, put you in handcuffs, threw you in the back of my car, and brought you to a warehouse and through you in a cage at gun point? Not only would I not have that right but you would have the right to defend yourself with lethal force. But I guess the rules that apply to every other individual within society don't apply to the enforcers of the state.

When we granted the "power freak" the power to serve and protect the community.
I never entered into any voluntary contract with anyone which granted them that power. In fact not even the involuntary and illegitimate social contract which I was born into grants them that authority.

Who said it would be random? Do you really think they just picked that 32 year old guy out of the blue and not because of something he was doing or behaving?

I'm sorry but we train the police to be observant and when they excercise that ability we scream privacy rights even while we are in public?
So what you're saying is that giving someone a badge and a gun makes them above the law. Cool deal.
 
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justabubba

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TORONTO — The Ontario government secretly passed legislation giving police sweeping new powers for the duration of the G8 and G20 summits.

Police are now able to jail anyone who refuses to furnish identification and submit to a search while within five metres of a designated security zone in downtown Toronto.

Critics reacted furiously to the new rules, which remained unpublicized until Thursday when a 32 year-old man was arrested in Toronto for refusing to show ID to police.

New Democrat MPP Peter Kormos said Friday the provincial Liberals created a “Kafka-esque” situation where people could be arrested for violating rules they didn’t know existed.

“This is very very repugnant stuff and should be troubling to everybody,” he said.

The Canadian Civil Liberties Association (CCLA) said it was “extremely concerned” that the new measures violate constitutional safeguards.

Nathalie Des Rosiers, general counsel for the CCLA said the changes are contrary to Canadian law.

“You don’t have any obligation to speak to Canadian police, to give your name or the reasons for your existence unless you’ve done something wrong — unless you’re being detained or arrested,” she said. “So on its face, it’s a dramatic change from what our constitution guarantees.”




Personally I love this new law because it doesn't allow these kids of whom many are there to cause trouble (my evidence is every other world bank meeting) and this allows the police to get the more violent little bastards off the street faster to ensure a peaceful protest.
I'm really at a loss why anyone would object to showing ID to a police officer who requests it. You should always have some form of ID on you. And yes that includes when you are running, biking, walking whatever.

'Secret' law lets police arrest for failing to show ID near summit
this is what underscores the problem with the new arizona law, where policing officials are directed to verify by ID the status of those they suspect to be illegal aliens. it indirectly imposes a burden of carrying ID which should not be allowed to exist


the laws in both countries are counter to the interests of the citizens within them
 

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this is what underscores the problem with the new arizona law, where policing officials are directed to verify by ID the status of those they suspect to be illegal aliens. it indirectly imposes a burden of carrying ID which should not be allowed to exist


the laws in both countries are counter to the interests of the citizens within them
The part you so conveniently left out was the small part where the subject has to have committed, or be suspected of committing a crime before that suspicion of being illegally here could be acted upon.

What you also leave out is the lawful requirement of carrying ID if you are in the US and not a citizen.

In other words, the two laws are not comparable in any way. :roll:
 

Aunt Spiker

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Everyone screams out against random or mandatory carding and checking. . . until a person who wasn't carded or questioned gets away with **** like setting their underpants on fire in an effort to blow up and airplane . . . then everyone screams "Why isn't the system efficient enough to catch everyone before they do something bad!"

0_o!

So if measures for safety and security aren't in place - then people aren't safe and secure.

It's really quite simple as to how and why things are done the way they are done - and how and why they do and don't work right.
 
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Orion

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This law was posted by the Ontario cabinet on the internet one month before it was voted on, but it received ZERO press coverage. The fact that there was a media blackout is obvious to everyone and it's big talk in Canada right now. Why was our press silent and how was their silence achieved?

There was a woman walking in downtown Toronto a few days ago before the summit started and she entered the "security zone". The police demanded to search her bag and look at her ID. She said no because there was no probable cause. They arrested her immediately. She is now taking the case to the Supreme Court.

The Ontario law actually violates the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms (our equivalent to a federal constitution), but because this event is only for three days the infringement of rights will not be stopped in time. What is happening in Toronto right now should concern everyone, including Americans. Wherever the G8/G20 goes, local rights are suspended. The fact that Toronto has a security zone right now where you cannot walk without risk of being detained, searched, and questioned, shows that our governments are becoming more and more audacious with their expansion of powers.

I believe in peaceful protests but I'm starting to feel like there is no point anymore. The whole ideal behind democracy is that when the common people protest the government is forced to listen; but it seems like no matter what the majority wants these days, the government will simply choose to ignore us.

I mean, this $2 billion in "security" was authorized by who? I don't recall parliament holding a vote on it. I don't recall being able to call up my MP and let them know that I do not give my government permission to use tax payer dollars for hosting this banquet for world leaders. My voice was effectively censored by a complete bypass of democracy. The G20 is about private interests, so why don't private interests shoulder the costs?

And it's not just the current conservative rule that does this. We have held other summits in the past under the liberals and the same attitude prevails. Democracy in Canada is being eroded by crony capitalism and neo-liberal globalist policies. This is a bipartisan concern and we should all be paying attention.

The G20 meeting is where people like the Bilderberg Group and Council on Foreign Relations get to give their unauthorized, non-democratic input into world policy that overrides our sovereign nation.

The fact that they are holding this meeting in the core of Canada's biggest city and charging us for it is a testament to their complete and utter audacity.
 
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Harry Guerrilla

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This law was posted by the Ontario cabinet on the internet one month before it was voted on, but it received ZERO press coverage. The fact that there was a media blackout is obvious to everyone and it's big talk in Canada right now. Why was our press silent and how was their silence achieved?

There was a woman walking in downtown Toronto a few days ago before the summit started and she entered the "security zone". The police demanded to search her bag and look at her ID. She said no because there was no probable cause. They arrested her immediately. She is now taking the case to the Supreme Court.

The Ontario law actually violates the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms (our equivalent to a federal constitution), but because this event is only for three days the infringement of rights will not be stopped in time. What is happening in Toronto right now should concern everyone, including Americans. Wherever the G8/G20 goes, local rights are suspended. The fact that Toronto has a security zone right now where you cannot walk without risk of being detained, searched, and questioned, shows that our governments are becoming more and more audacious with their expansion of powers.

I believe in peaceful protests but I'm starting to feel like there is no point anymore. The whole ideal behind democracy is that when the common people protest the government is forced to listen; but it seems like no matter what the majority wants these days, the government will simply choose to ignore us.

I mean, this $2 billion in "security" was authorized by who? I don't recall parliament holding a vote on it. I don't recall being able to call up my MP and let them know that I do not give my government permission to use tax payer dollars for hosting this banquet for world leaders. My voice was effectively censored by a complete bypass of democracy. The G20 is about private interests, so why don't private interests shoulder the costs?

And it's not just the current conservative rule that does this. We have held other summits in the past under the liberals and the same attitude prevails. Democracy in Canada is being eroded by crony capitalism and neo-liberal globalist policies. This is a bipartisan concern and we should all be paying attention.

The G20 meeting is where people like the Bilderberg Group and Council on Foreign Relations get to give their unauthorized, non-democratic input into world policy that overrides our sovereign nation.

The fact that they are holding this meeting in the core of Canada's biggest city and charging us for it is a testament to their complete and utter audacity.
The conservative/liberal stuff is mostly a dog and pony show for morons.
Both sets of these assholes are consistent about no giving two ****s about anyone else when it comes to their power and security.

That is why I'm a non affiliated libertarian, I don't buy the bull****.

Good post by the way. ;)
 

ric27

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The conservative/liberal stuff is mostly a dog and pony show for morons.
Both sets of these assholes are consistent about no giving two ****s about anyone else when it comes to their power and security.

That is why I'm a non affiliated libertarian, I don't buy the bull****.

Good post by the way. ;)
Did you vote in this last election?
 
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