Second World War And Axis Victory

[Quag]

Well, were they there for show?

They sure as hell weren't there to invade the USA.

 

[CRUE CAB]

They sure as hell weren't there to invade the USA.

So you say.

 

[CRUE CAB]

http://www.amazon.com/Target-America-Hitlers-Attack-United/dp/1592289347

 

[Quag]

So you say.

So says anyone who isn't clueless.
Seriously you are suggesting the Nazi Germany was planning on invading the USA with Uboats? Seriously?

 

[CRUE CAB]

So says anyone who isn't clueless.
Seriously you are suggesting the Nazi Germany was planning on invading the USA with Uboats? Seriously?

Not what I said at all. Read some books. You remember books don't you?

 

[Quag]

Not what I said at all. Read some books. You remember books don't you?

You are the one who is talking about Uboats off the US coast when we are talking about the possibility of a Nazi invasion of the USA, or lack thereof.

 

[CRUE CAB]

You are the one who is talking about Uboats off the US coast when we are talking about the possibility of a Nazi invasion of the USA, or lack thereof.

You don't see any relationship of the two?

 

[Quag]

You don't see any relationship of the two?

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!
All I can say is WOW!
Please explain how these uboats were going to invade the USA

 

[CRUE CAB]

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!
All I can say is WOW!
Please explain how these uboats were going to invade the USA

Are you blind? I never said we were going to be "invaded by U boats".
I suppose you never heard of reconnaissance.

 

[Quag]

Are you blind? I never said we were going to be "invaded by U boats".
I suppose you never heard of reconnaissance.

Take your own advice and read some books. Then tell me exactly what they were going to use to invade the USA. Because aside from some Uboats they had nothing they could use to get soldiers over there and YOU are the one who brought up the Uboats on the first place.

 

[CRUE CAB]

Take your own advice and read some books. Then tell me exactly what they were going to use to invade the USA. Because aside from some Uboats they had nothing they could use to get soldiers over there and YOU are the one who brought up the Uboats on the first place.

Um, the German Navy. I brought up U Boats only as it applies to the fact that Hitler had plans for America. I think you are trying to read way too much into it.

 

[Quag]

Um, the German Navy. I brought up U Boats only as it applies to the fact that Hitler had plans for America. I think you are trying to read way too much into it.

So in other words you haven't read any books and have no clue.
Gotcha
No plans for invading America no ability to invade America, only at best some dreams of a madman.

 

[Oozlefinch]

http://www.amazon.com/Target-America-Hitlers-Attack-United/dp/1592289347

Any quotes or relevant information from that book you want to present to us? Or are you just spamming a book?

Now let me introduce a dose of reality, including what I could find out about your book.

From all the reviews I can find about it, it is all about the "gee whiz" weaponry Germany was trying to perfect and build. Rockets, bombers, submarines.

Now he used all 3 to bound the crap out of England for 2 years before the US stepped into the war, did England surrender?

Who those are all kinda cool, but what kinds of weapons are needed to attack a country separated by an ocean?

Ships, and lots of them. Battleships by the score, hundreds of transports, aircraft carriers. Hundreds of destroyers, cruisers, frigates, and all of the logistical ships needed to take your army from your land across an ocean and drop them on another land.

Now what exactly in this capability did Germany have?

Now what exactly in this capability was Germany building?

Jack ****.

That is how we know Germany was not planning on invading the United States for decades at the minimum.

 

[Oozlefinch]

You don't see any relationship of the two?

Not at all.

 

[CRUE CAB]

So in other words you haven't read any books and have no clue.
Gotcha
No plans for invading America no ability to invade America, only at best some dreams of a madman.

Sure man. Just keep arguing. I can guarantee I have read more on it than you but hey, you seem to think you are the expert.
You probably think Hitler was just a mis understood man too.

 

[CRUE CAB]

Any quotes or relevant information from that book you want to present to us? Or are you just spamming a book?

Now let me introduce a dose of reality, including what I could find out about your book.

From all the reviews I can find about it, it is all about the "gee whiz" weaponry Germany was trying to perfect and build. Rockets, bombers, submarines.

Now he used all 3 to bound the crap out of England for 2 years before the US stepped into the war, did England surrender?

Who those are all kinda cool, but what kinds of weapons are needed to attack a country separated by an ocean?

Ships, and lots of them. Battleships by the score, hundreds of transports, aircraft carriers. Hundreds of destroyers, cruisers, frigates, and all of the logistical ships needed to take your army from your land across an ocean and drop them on another land.

Now what exactly in this capability did Germany have?

Now what exactly in this capability was Germany building?

Jack ****.

That is how we know Germany was not planning on invading the United States for decades at the minimum.

For decades? Maybe not. But there was a desire to do so. Or LIKE I SAID AT THE VERY LEAST KEEP US NEUTRAL AND ISOLATIONIST. Cant you people read?

 

[CRUE CAB]

Gee, I thought Stephen Ambrose was dead. Clearly he is posting here on DP.
Tell us Mr Ambrose, what was that whole "thousand year reich" going to do with the US. Just let us be?

 

[Helix]

the invasion of the Soviet Union is more data which supports the argument that leaders should read and understand world history before taking office. there have been many examples since, unfortunately.

as for the OP, victory would have been difficult without Soviet help. the war in Europe would have lasted longer, but not a great deal longer. we still would have developed the atomic bomb, and most likely we would have dropped it on Germany.

 

[Oozlefinch]

Um, the German Navy.

What German Navy? The Kriegsmarine? Yes, a formidable foe. Take away their U-boats, and they had the ****tiest navy among all of the Axis powers.

The Navy of Germany was nothing but a joke for the most part, Hitler was in the Army, and hated sailors.

The point is, you need a Navy to invade across water, and Hitler did not have one.

Think of this. For D-day, the Allies were only crossing a body of water around 30 miles across.

Yet they needed an invasion fleet which was drawn from eight different navies, comprising 6,939 vessels: 1,213 warships, 4,126 landing craft of various types, 736 ancillary craft, and 864 merchant vessels. Germany had a grand total of 8 Troop ships. Germany had no aircraft carriers. And there were no attempts being made to alleviate any of those issues.

If you want to know what would have been needed to invade the US, look at Operation Downfall. Then roughly multiply all the requirements by a factor of at least 6 to 8, because of the size and population of the US< and it's widely dispersed infrastructure and industrial capacity.

And do not look to Japan for help, they are going to be to busy consolidating their hold over Asia, which is all they really care about. You might be able to talk them into taking Alaska, but outside of taking Hawaii they do not want or need the US or it's land.

You can look to Italy for help. We all know how awesome the Italian Army was in the North Africa Campaign. And their victory in the Abyssinian War, a masterpiece.

 

[Oozlefinch]

For decades? Maybe not. But there was a desire to do so. Or LIKE I SAID AT THE VERY LEAST KEEP US NEUTRAL AND ISOLATIONIST. Cant you people read?

Then I am sure you can provide us with a reference stating that, right?

And think on this, the United States was neutral to Germany.

It was Germany that declared war against the United States.

Yea, so much for "neutral and isolationist".

 

[CRUE CAB]

What German Navy? The Kriegsmarine? Yes, a formidable foe. Take away their U-boats, and they had the ****tiest navy among all of the Axis powers.

The Navy of Germany was nothing but a joke for the most part, Hitler was in the Army, and hated sailors.

The point is, you need a Navy to invade across water, and Hitler did not have one.

Think of this. For D-day, the Allies were only crossing a body of water around 30 miles across.

Yet they needed an invasion fleet which was drawn from eight different navies, comprising 6,939 vessels: 1,213 warships, 4,126 landing craft of various types, 736 ancillary craft, and 864 merchant vessels. Germany had a grand total of 8 Troop ships. Germany had no aircraft carriers. And there were no attempts being made to alleviate any of those issues.

If you want to know what would have been needed to invade the US, look at Operation Downfall. Then roughly multiply all the requirements by a factor of at least 6 to 8, because of the size and population of the US< and it's widely dispersed infrastructure and industrial capacity.

And do not look to Japan for help, they are going to be to busy consolidating their hold over Asia, which is all they really care about. You might be able to talk them into taking Alaska, but outside of taking Hawaii they do not want or need the US or it's land.

You can look to Italy for help. We all know how awesome the Italian Army was in the North Africa Campaign. And their victory in the Abyssinian War, a masterpiece.

Not having a navy, and never building one are two different things. And, had the Russia invasion gone as planned. He may not have needed one.

 

[CRUE CAB]

Then I am sure you can provide us with a reference stating that, right?

And think on this, the United States was neutral to Germany.

It was Germany that declared war against the United States.

Yea, so much for "neutral and isolationist".

Yes, they declared war on us. And at that time they were going to do what to us? You are acting like I said an invasion was inevitable right then and there, and I said nothing of the sort.

 

[Oozlefinch]

as for the OP, victory would have been difficult without Soviet help. the war in Europe would have lasted longer, but not a great deal longer. we still would have developed the atomic bomb, and most likely we would have dropped it on Germany.

Without the Soviets getting into the war, Germany still had a huge weak link to contend with in his own alliance.

Italy.

Italy was the yapping teacup dog of the Axis Powers. Their army was not that great, their navy performed best in their ports. They were constantly battling in Ethiopia, when their enemy was armed with pre-World War I surplus. Their entire Air Force had only 3 combat biplanes. Yet it took them almost a year to beat the Ethiopians, and they never were able to really gain control of the area.

And their performance against the Allies was even worse.

Germany would still not have had a cakewalk, because they were fighting as 1/2 of the Axis. Africa was the AO for Italy, Germany was only down there because the Italians were getting their butts handed to them and needed saving. But ultimately, Germany could not save them and they lost Africa. Italy was invaded 9 months before France was, and collapsed shortly afterwards.

And as you state, the atomic bomb would have been the gamechanger. The US was racing to develop it. Germany was ignoring Fission explosives altogether (Hitler thought it Jewish Junk Science), at most there were some half-hearted attempts at direct fusion which would have made nothing.

How long would Germany have continued with atomic bombs falling on their head? Because regardless of anything else, the US would have had them by the fall of 1945.

Could Germany have invaded before then? Nope.

 

[Oozlefinch]

Not having a navy, and never building one are two different things. And, had the Russia invasion gone as planned. He may not have needed one.

*puts on best Eric Idle impersonation sarcasm accent*

What, were they gonna walk there? Across Russia and swim the Bering Strait?

Yes, they declared war on us. And at that time they were going to do what to us? You are acting like I said an invasion was inevitable right then and there, and I said nothing of the sort.

No, they only decided without any kind of ability to attack the largest industrial nation on the planet to declare war against the United States.

And no, I am not discounting the Soviet Union as an Industrialized nation, but her useable land when subtracted from tundra and wasteland was smaller then the US.

If there was one moronic, idiotic, and outright insane decision made by Germany during all of WWII, even to the point where Der Paper Hanger decided to do a Superman and try to catch a bullet with his teeth, it was declaring war against the United States.

That there was the start of the end of the war in Europe.

The correct answer is to look at it in the terms of Germany, not the United States.

You are now Der Paper Hanger. Your only real ally has attacked the largest uninvolved nation on the planet, with a huge industrial and personnel capacity. Your treaty does not obligate you to get involved (no more then Japan was obligated to get involved when the USSR was invaded). You can do nothing against this new potential enemy. He has no assets you can seize, none of your forces can reach him, you have nothing to gain at all. However, he has a tremendous industrial capacity.

So what was in it for Germany to declare war against the US?

Well, Der Paper Hanger thought it was a good idea, so that is good enough I guess. And this is the man you are trying to reference as a military source?

Please let me know whenever you want to try to discuss this logistically and tactically.

 

[Quag]

Sure man. Just keep arguing. I can guarantee I have read more on it than you but hey, you seem to think you are the expert.
You probably think Hitler was just a mis understood man too.

Never claimed to be an expert but clearly if you have read much on the subject they were alternate history fictions.