Seattle's transit system struggles as riders refuse to pay

[Fishking]

You called an American city 'liberal utopia'. Yeah, I call that ignorance of simple concepts. Liberal is a simple concept, utopia is a simple concept and you don't understand what either means, evidently.

Doubling down in your inability to understand simple concepts. Outstanding!

 

[Grand Mal]

Doubling down in your inability to understand simple concepts. Outstanding!

Liberal utopia. Nobody can equal a determined American radical right-whinger for loud and proud ignorance.

 

[SenorXm/Sirius]

Leave it up to Trumpsters to show up and inject politics into a thread that has nothing to do with politics...

Everything is about politics with them... It's the most important thing in their lives... Sad..

 

[Schism]

You called an American city 'liberal utopia'. Yeah, I call that ignorance of simple concepts. Liberal is a simple concept, utopia is a simple concept and you don't understand what either means, evidently.

Here's what we do understand: 70% of riders on Seattles $168 Billion metro are liberal freeloaders who won't even buy a ticket because there are no turnstiles or fare enforcement.

Why isn't there fare enforcement? That's answered in the article: it disproportionately hurts the feelings of minorities who don't buy a ticket and are freeloading on the system.

 

[Schism]

Leave it up to Trumpsters to show up and inject politics into a thread that has nothing to do with politics...

Everything is about politics with them... It's the most important thing in their lives... Sad..

The thread has everything to do with politics: liberal and progressive policy that makes no fiscal sense.

 

[SenorXm/Sirius]

The thread has everything to do with politics: liberal and progressive policy that makes no fiscal sense.

Has nothing to do with politics... Turnstile jumpers has been a problem since Day 1 with subways...

Use to be family, religion, jobs were the most important things to conservatives... Now? It's all about politics with you guys... What a sad way to live your lives...

 

[Schism]

Has nothing to do with politics... Turnstile jumpers has been a problem since Day 1 with subways...

Use to be family, religion, jobs were the most important things to conservatives... Now? It's all about politics with you guys... What a sad way to live your lives...

Scroll up to the top of the page and read the name of the site you're on.

 

[Grand Mal]

Here's what we do understand: 70% of riders on Seattles $168 Billion metro are liberal freeloaders who won't even buy a ticket because there are no turnstiles or fare enforcement.

Why isn't there fare enforcement? That's answered in the article: it disproportionately hurts the feelings of minorities who don't buy a ticket and are freeloading on the system.

Bullshit. You just pulled that nugget out of your butt.

 

[Schism]

Bullshit. You just pulled that nugget out of your butt.

Didn't read the article? *shrug*

 

[Integrityrespec]

Seattle's transit system struggles as riders refuse to pay


A few quotes from the article:

Entitlement.


Why should they? They're entitled.


You get what you vote for.



$168 Billion they'll never recover, be able to maintain, and apparently don't care.

This is what Progressives want: free everything that someone else pays for. They have no idea what it costs who's going to pay for it, as long as it's not them.

So this is another example of how the liberal ideology just doesn't work. No turnstile, no ticket takers, and the honor system is awash with no honor. It's fixable. Erect the turnstiles and the ticket booths and the automated ticket takers and put gates and fence up to keep the cheapskates out.

 

[Schism]

So this is another example of how the liberal ideology just doesn't work. No turnstile, no ticket takers, and the honor system is awash with no honor. It's fixable. Erect the turnstiles and the ticket booths and the automated ticket takers and put gates and fence up to keep the cheapskates out.

It's ridiculously stupid.

 

[CLAX1911]

Seattle's transit system struggles as riders refuse to pay


A few quotes from the article:

Entitlement.


Why should they? They're entitled.


You get what you vote for.



$168 Billion they'll never recover, be able to maintain, and apparently don't care.

This is what Progressives want: free everything that someone else pays for. They have no idea what it costs who's going to pay for it, as long as it's not them.

So the system will go bankrupt and they will have to walk I think that is a just reward for that behavior.

 

[Peter]

London's system is awesome. I was amazed at how affordable it was. I rode it extensively for three days and still didn't spend all of the money that i put on the Oyster card.

London's system is indeed excellent.
It always amuses me when you hear Londoners moaning about public transport when they have by far the best system in the country with loads of underground trains and almost limitless options for busses.
To be fair the system in London was the first ever Underground system and has been built up since then.
This is both a blessing and a curse.

I can't imagine the Underground system without gates though and because we have the Oyster system which makes payment easy fare dodging isn't a huge problem here.

 

[CLAX1911]

Relax, Schism. Fare evaders are a problem with any transit system that doesn't have fare gates.

They just need more--ahem--fare enforcement!

In Seattle I don't think anyone's going to do that job. I don't think there's enough money in the world.

 

[Schism]

In Seattle I don't think anyone's going to do that job. I don't think there's enough money in the world.

You're right, they'd be attacked daily by mental patients on meth and heroin.

 

[CLAX1911]

You're right, they'd be attacked daily by mental patients on meth and heroin.

That's probably on the better days and if they are the city will throw them under the bus. That's what they do with their law enforcement I say let the city devolve into chaos maybe in a few years it'll be mostly empty like Detroit.

 

[Peter]

It's ridiculously stupid.

I'm going to have to agree with you on this.
An honour system for a major transport system is just not workable.

Make the payment system easy, quick and cheap and people will pay for the service.

 

[CLAX1911]

I'm going to have to agree with you on this.
An honour system for a major transport system is just not workable.

Make the payment system easy, quick and cheap and people will pay for the service.

I don't think that's the attitude of people in Seattle.

 

[Peter]

I don't think that's the attitude of people in Seattle.

I don't understand the thinking of the designers of the system.
Some of you may think I'm a crazy liberal but even I can see that simply allowing people onto the system without any way to validate payment is going to cause a whole world of problems?
Even with the best will in the world, many people will just not pay simply because they see people who aren't paying getting away with it.

Even I can see that and I'm just an idiot on the internet.
As I said the way London does it is about right and people pay for a good service.

In fact, I'm going to go down to London soon for a special visit just to see The Elizabeth Line finally open.

Elizabeth line - look ahead

The three branches of the Elizabeth line - east, west and central - are now connected.

tfl.gov.uk

 

[CLAX1911]

I don't understand the thinking of the designers of the system.

I don't think design will deter determine meth heads.

Some of you may think I'm a crazy liberal but even I can see that simply allowing people onto the system without any way to validate payment is going to cause a whole world of problems?

Well that's what Seattle is.

Even with the best will in the world, many people will just not pay simply because they see people who aren't paying getting away with it.

Even I can see that and I'm just an idiot on the internet.
As I said the way London does it is about right and people pay for a good service.

In fact, I'm going to go down to London soon for a special visit just to see The Elizabeth Line finally open.

Elizabeth line - look ahead

The three branches of the Elizabeth line - east, west and central - are now connected.

tfl.gov.uk

We agreed Seattle is run by morons.

 

[upsideguy]

Relax, it's only $168B!

The lost fare income is not $168B. Transit systems expect to cover operating costs, not necessarily have a return on investment. The return is found in quality of life and overall economic development. I also question the $168B number. I find it very hard to believe it was anywhere near the costly to put a rail system in a metro area the size of Seattle. It was likely about 1/10 of that. Of course, its a Faux News story designed to instigate outrage of ignorant viewers, so it must be fact checked. Consider yourself played... so, let's unbunch your panties, eh?

Here is an article on the Seattle transit system. The light rail system cost about $3.0B to complete. The larger transit system was about $20B, all in. No where in the articles below would you find any number that approaches the number used in the Faux New article.

Why Sound Transit's projects are so costly - Seattle Business magazine

Sound Transit is on the move. The regional transportation authority, which operates rail and bus services in three central-Puget Sound counties, is completing a light-rail extension from downtown Seattle to Capitol Hill and the University of Washington campus, and has plans underway to extend...

seattlebusinessmag.com

Kent Reporter

www.tukwilareporter.com

WhoTF doesn't have turnstiles?

Light rail systems often operate with a show your ticket on demand system. There are no turnstiles in Denver, either.

 

[Schism]

The lost fare income is not $168B. Transit systems expect to cover operating costs, not necessarily have a return on investment. The return is found in quality of life and overall economic development.

When an estimated 70% of the riders aren't paying the fare do you believe they'll recover operating costs?

I also question the $168B number.

You do?

I find it very hard to believe it was anywhere near the costly to put a rail system in a metro area the size of Seattle.

It does sound hard to believe, doesn't it?

It was likely about 1/10 of that.

Likely? LOL, well you're wrong.

Of course, its a Faux News story designed to instigate outrage of ignorant viewers, so it must be fact checked. Consider yourself played... so, let's unbunch your panties, eh?

I see. Again, you're wrong. I've already looked it up in like 5 minutes. But I'm going to let you remain in the dark, because you're so sure of yourself.

Here is an article on the Seattle transit system. The light rail system cost about $3.0B to complete.

LOL! Nope. One extension cost about that much. But, you know the numbers.

The larger transit system was about $20B, all in.

Again, nope.

No where in the articles below would you find any number that approaches the number used in the Faux New article.

Why Sound Transit's projects are so costly - Seattle Business magazine

Sound Transit is on the move. The regional transportation authority, which operates rail and bus services in three central-Puget Sound counties, is completing a light-rail extension from downtown Seattle to Capitol Hill and the University of Washington campus, and has plans underway to extend...

seattlebusinessmag.com

Kent Reporter

www.tukwilareporter.com

That must mean you're right! LOL. ...you're not.

Light rail systems often operate with a show your ticket on demand system. There are no turnstiles in Denver, either.

Maybe Seattle is full of dishonest losers?

 

[The Mark]

Interesting.

I wonder why that would be? Cost saving? If so, it would seem to be counter-productive in this case.

Geezus, 70%! That means the honest 30% is paying over 3X times the fair rate, in order to cover the miscreants' skipping-out on fares.

Maybe having it free at point of use but paying for it with higher income taxes makes sense? After all, a transit system that charges everyone the same could be seen as a regressive tax system if you look at it from a certain perspective.

 

[Court Jester]

Relax, Schism. Fare evaders are a problem with any transit system that doesn't have fare gates.

They just need more--ahem--fare enforcement!

Won't really help. No public transportation system can support it's operations from fares anyway. Here in SoCal our latest metro train expenses is basically at a cost of $22 per mile per RIDER! Taxpayers are footing the bill for these loser sadsacks who use public transportation anyway.

 

[CaughtInThe]

You know what's really interesting?

If/when they put up turnstiles we will never see a thread about it.